12 and 8 String Basses

[warwickhunt]

On 14/01/2018 at 15:09, 12stringbassist said:

This other one of mine is a bit better than the first for bass tone...
 

 

I was it this gig stood straight in front of Tom! 

 

[Woodinblack]

Well, practice tonight, so the first time I have heard the Dean 8 string at any volume.

It is absolutely wonderful at certain things - it sounds full and rich, it really sings, and for rock stuff it is fantastic. But it is really hard work, and for fast stuff, forget it!

Maybe I just need to man up and practice

 

[Al Krow]

8 minutes ago, Woodinblack said:

Well, practice tonight, so the first time I have heard the Dean 8 string at any volume.

It is absolutely wonderful at certain things - it sounds full and rich, it really sings, and for rock stuff it is fantastic. But it is really hard work, and for fast stuff, forget it!

Maybe I just need to man up and practice

 

Sounds great / really promising for a first outing. Just waiting for one of my six strings (normal guitars) to shift and I'm looking forward to joining you and el Cuzzie in this new quest...

Yup time to man up and practice  Do you also play upright bass? Not going to be any more demanding than that is it? And this young lady doesn't complain about the effort involved... 

 

Edited February 6, 2018 by Al Krow

[Wolverinebass]

8 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

Well, practice tonight, so the first time I have heard the Dean 8 string at any volume.

It is absolutely wonderful at certain things - it sounds full and rich, it really sings, and for rock stuff it is fantastic. But it is really hard work, and for fast stuff, forget it!

Maybe I just need to man up and practice

 

Like all new things it'll need a bit of adjustment. I can play a 12 or 8 exactly like I do a 4. As @Al Krow saw the other day. 

What I would say is get it really well set up. If it's a difficulty pressing the strings down, get the action lowered. I got my 12 fret stoned and the action is stupidly low. If you're using fingers you might want to arch your hand slightly or pull through the strings more than you would normally. You can see what works for you.

[Woodinblack]

Oh yes, it needs setting up, the action is way to heavy. I could try getting it stoned, and I am sure we would both enjoy it but then I would end up playing blues for a few hours

Anyway, love it, now looking for a 12 string to go with it

 

[12stringbassist]

Waterstone are  re-stocking their 12ers.

[Al Krow]

On 07/02/2018 at 17:36, Woodinblack said:

Oh yes, it needs setting up, the action is way to heavy. I could try getting it stoned, and I am sure we would both enjoy it but then I would end up playing blues for a few hours

Anyway, love it, now looking for a 12 string to go with it

 

Woah! Slow down, I'm going to be two 8 strings, a 12 string, four 4 strings and 9 normal six string guitars behind you at this rate. Fortunately I can only play one of them at a time... 

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, Al Krow said:

Woah! Slow down, I'm going to be two 8 strings, a 12 string, four 4 strings and 9 normal six string guitars behind you at this rate. Fortunately I can only play one of them at a time... 

No, not yet, I have sent the spector back. It was good, but I don't need 2 8 strings!

Adjusted the neck to bring the bow back, and now the action is much lower, and also makes it a lot easier to play. I am going to gig it on a few songs tomorrow (not the whole gig though!)

Was a bit of a pain doing the neck, there area  lot of strings in the way and I was suprised to be confronted with more truss rods than I normally do, and slightly nervous about how noisy they were to turn  but all seems good.

 

[Woodinblack]

4 hours ago, 12stringbassist said:

Waterstone are  re-stocking their 12ers.

I can't see, there site doesn't appear to be working, unless I am looking at the wrong one?

Ah, I see comments from the other site. Can't imagine I would be able to afford one of the new 12 strings. I would certainly like to find a decent second hand one not too expensive. There are quite a few nice ones out there, but really rare. I guess I put up a wanted add and wait until something wanders along.

Or maybe if I left it long enough I would get bored of the 8 string, but I am enjoying it quite a bit at the moment.

[Cuzzie]

Wait for a Hamer

[Woodinblack]

Can't imagine one coming up often!

 

[SpondonBassed]

2 hours ago, Woodinblack said:

...Adjusted the neck to bring the bow back, and now the action is much lower, and also makes it a lot easier to play. I am going to gig it on a few songs tomorrow (not the whole gig though!)

Was a bit of a pain doing the neck, there area  lot of strings in the way and I was suprised to be confronted with more truss rods than I normally do, and slightly nervous about how noisy they were to turn  but all seems good.

Do you slacken off the strings before you adjust the truss rods?

[Cuzzie]

I waited about a year or so, it’s worth it!

[Woodinblack]

1 hour ago, SpondonBassed said:

Do you slacken off the strings before you adjust the truss rods?

Oh yes. I didn't take them all off but they all had to be loosened anyway to even get to those truss rods!

[Al Krow]

Guys - just wondering whether any of you have used a Digitech Mosaic pedal with bass? This is a guitar pedal I appreciate, but then so are a bunch of octave pedals (e.g. the EHX Pitchfork). So if it works in the bass frequency spectrum, it could be a really neat 8 string guitar emulator for bass. I know a couple of guys are also checking out the TC Sub'n'Up for the same results (i.e. polyphonic octave up) and hopefully we'll be hearing back from them soon, too.

Clearly a pedal is unlikely to get a 4 string to 100% emulate an 8 string; but if there are just a couple of songs in a set where you might be thinking of using an 8 string a pedal would be simpler than lugging a second bass and swapping between basses mid set. So if it can get 80% of the way there, then that might be 'good enough' and also save a few ££s in the process. But I accept a pedal is not going to replace the fun of playing an actual 8 string. I guess it would be like drinking alcohol free beer: has nearly all of the taste but lacks that certain 'heft'.

[Al Krow]

Just come across this on 'the other forum', which pretty much answers my Q. It will be interesting to see how well the TC SnU does on polyphonic octave up, but the Mosaic is worth also putting on the radar methinks?

I have the Digi Mosaic. I bought it for guitar noodling and bass. It's quite nice ! It does remind me of just about any other pitch shifter out there performing an octave up effect however it has its improvements. For example, the control layout could not be more simple with a level (which is a wet/dry control) and tone. Switching is quiet. I would assume it is based on a Whammy platform and programmed to one specific duty being the octave up effect. They seemed to have tweaked lowering latency, improved anti-aliasing effects, adding the octave above as well as a doubling effect to make it a bit fatter. It of course tracks well and works with chords.  Mosaic's are suggested to be in the front of other effects and just after the instrument. As with past pitch shifters, I'm sure a comp in front of it would make things even more stable and using it in the loop of a blender pedal (Xotic, Radial, etc) would most likely allow an even stronger original tone. 

Set at about 9:00 on both controls makes for a pretty darn convincing 8 string effect. Does it replace a true 8-string bass, of course not but could be a great alternative or effect. 

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow the search continues.....

Digitech Whammy gets you close

[Al Krow]

4 minutes ago, Cuzzie said:

@Al Krow the search continues.....

Digitech Whammy gets you close

The 'Ricochet' cut down version of the Whammy looks an interesting option and much more compact. I found the EHX octave-up sound a little bit too 'tinny' / 'synthetic' and hopefully Digitech's pedals are more organic.

[Wolverinebass]

10 hours ago, Al Krow said:

Guys - just wondering whether any of you have used a Digitech Mosaic pedal with bass? This is a guitar pedal I appreciate, but then so are a bunch of octave pedals (e.g. the EHX Pitchfork). So if it works in the bass frequency spectrum, it could be a really neat 8 string guitar emulator for bass. I know a couple of guys are also checking out the TC Sub'n'Up for the same results (i.e. polyphonic octave up) and hopefully we'll be hearing back from them soon, too.

Clearly a pedal is unlikely to get a 4 string to 100% emulate an 8 string; but if there are just a couple of songs in a set where you might be thinking of using an 8 string a pedal would be simpler than lugging a second bass and swapping between basses mid set. So if it can get 80% of the way there, then that might be 'good enough' and also save a few ££s in the process. But I accept a pedal is not going to replace the fun of playing an actual 8 string. I guess it would be like drinking alcohol free beer: has nearly all of the taste but lacks that certain 'heft'.

Oh dear. If you'd have said when you were round I could have shown you why a whammy or pitch shifter on a 4 string doesn't quite work. Just get an 8 string and use it all the time. It's what I did.

Quite like the non-alcoholic beer analogy in comparison to getting an 8 string. Maybe it applies equally to both of our situations. In my case, if I ever drink again, Mrs Wolverine will be "upset" and possibly leave. Maybe in your case, the purchase of an 8 string will lead to Mrs Know saying "enough is enough!!" It could all end in tears.

Or, you could just buy an 8 string and be done with it. 😉

[Woodinblack]

I played my first gig with the dean 8 string last night, it went so well in practice and now I have lowered the action is it an absolute joy to play. Don't get me wrong, it is still more effort to play but only just.

It is a faff changing bass, more so because I am wired up with wireless sender and IEM, so those leads are in the way, so I didn't do it that much (mostly the iem). As a result of that, there were some songs I would have liked to play with the 8 string that I didn't, and some things I wouldn't have picked the 8 string for that I did.

So, come together by the beatles, really doesn't work for, you need a dull paul mccartny tone and it doesn't have that, plus the strings are in the way - especially as I play the whole thing up around the 10th fret. 

Some songs though, 'does your mother know', "20th century boy', 'crazy horses', 'who knew', 'fight for your right' and anything rocky, fantastic. I also ended up playing it on 'saturday nights alright for fighting' which I had already decided I wouldn't due to the effort requred, because it was between 'baker street' and 'fortunate son', and it worked ok, if a bit more work than I would like - ditto 'turning Japanese'.

Some songs in the second half I would have liked to use it for, but too much ska in that half to pick it up. Need to work out a quick changeover without the leads!

I really do like this bass. 

Regarding the pitch shifter, I have used one of those many times in the past, as well as the Akai unibass and fishman powerchord effects pedals, both now sold. They are ultimately nothing like this. I wouldn't mind trying a sub-n-up, see if it is any good, but it won't be the same. I wish I had this in my last group.

I think the main difference is that with an 8 string, the way you play it dictates how much of which octave you get, so you can if you want play just the low strings, or just the high, playing with a downstroke sounds different to playing with an upstroke, playing fingerstyle sounds very different to with a pick etc, its really versatile within its niche.

Dont' think it is ever going to replace the ibanezes for general stuff, and also it *is* a doubled 4 string, so it is missing a string (or umm.. 2 strings), so I really could do with a 10 (or umm.. a 15!) but I am really happy I got it.

[Cuzzie]

Good man

 

glad to hear it went so well.

 

i am hoping for a band practice this week to test it out, but yes, some of y

our songs defo don’t work!

[Al Krow]

So pulling together what I think we are all agreeing on from above:

- a pedal ain't going to make a 4 string an 8 string. Let's define that as the alcohol free beer option, as it seems to be a liked terminology  

- an 8 string is only going to be useful for some but certainly not all songs.

How best to practically make this work live? Decide to accept something that is an approximation with a pedal or accept that set-flow is could well be disturbed whilst you swap basses around, depending on song grouping and breaks.

OR is it possible to get good enough on an 8 so that you can play it like a 4 string when you want?

I guess it's also going to depend on how core an 8 or 12 string is to your sound? I can see that if you're an originals band (and I'd certainly like to be doing more original stuff) and 8 or 12 is 'your' sound, then yes 100% that's the way to go. If you're a covers band then almost no one seems to be using 8 or 12.

So yes, I'll probably get an 8 'cos I think I'll really enjoy it and want to get more into original material writing in any case. 

But unless I can get sufficiently proficient to use an 8 as a 4 string for songs that don't warrant an 8, then probably limited use for my covers band.

[Woodinblack]

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

I guess it's also going to depend on how core an 8 or 12 string is to your sound? I can see that if you're an originals band (and I'd certainly like to be doing more original stuff) and 8 or 12 is 'your' sound, then yes 100% that's the way to go. If you're a covers band then almost no one seems to be using 8 or 12.

Obviously depends on your covers. If I was in my last covers band, I would happily use this for the whole gig. If you are primarily a rock covers band, ditto, don't see a reason you couldn't. The covers band I am in at the moment is more eclectic than a lot and some it just doesn't work with. Ska specifically, its just not the right thing. I am in a covers band not a tribute, so I don't really care what a track was originally done with, I only care whether it sounds ok. Some songs sound better with an 8 string.

If you were originals, then yes, you use what you want.

If you want to do pearl jam covers, or strangely, Yes, it certainly brings something to the party though. Its the first time playing jeremy sounded right!

4 minutes ago, Al Krow said:

So yes, I'll probably get an 8 'cos I think I'll really enjoy it and want to get more into original material writing in any case. 

But unless I can get sufficiently proficient to use an 8 as a 4 string for songs that don't warrant an 8, then probably limited use for my covers band.

 

Yes. I feel getting the 8 string has added something, and it is a lot of fun. Who knows, maybe my use of it will tail off when I get more used to it.

Can I do without it, well, yes, I have 10(ish) basses, I could easily go to one and still gig. Although saying that reminds me of those old drug adverts 'Yeh, I could give it up any time'

Most of them are completely superfluous. Specifically the Maruszczyk, the 1605 and 4005 ibanezes. I can pick any one of those to go and gig with and it is going to be pretty well the same.  Some of them sound different, the thunderbird, the ATK, the P. Then some of them really are genuinely different, like the fretless, the SRC6 and now the 8 string. 

[AndyTravis]

so The dean Edge is discontinued as an 8 string...there is still this handsome beast.

[Cuzzie]

@Al Krow the other thing is to use the 8 for the whole gig, but modify your technique so you can use just the one string if required, instead of the octave