blue Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 (edited) [quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1502968119' post='3354707'] I do wonder what percentage of an audience would be able to tell (or care) if a band member was deputising for another...Front person aside....let alone notice any musical nuance a dep brought. [/quote] Only to hardcore fans, if your band is famous with recognizable players. Example, as a 50 year Stones fan I would certainly know if Daryl Jones was not playing. But would the millions of "Johnny Come Lately" fans know, probably not. Blue Edited August 19, 2017 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
oldslapper Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1503175761' post='3356288'] Only to hardcore fans, if your band is famous with recognizable players. Example, as a 50 year Stones fan I would certainly know if Daryl Jones was not playing. But would the millions of "Johnny Come Lately" fans know, probably not. Blue [/quote] He's been depping for Bill Wyman for a while now.😁 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted August 19, 2017 Share Posted August 19, 2017 [quote name='oldslapper' timestamp='1503176783' post='3356294'] He's been depping for Bill Wyman for a while now.😁 [/quote] True, Daryl might be the highest paid hired gun in the business. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted August 20, 2017 Author Share Posted August 20, 2017 but wouldn't we all love it if Bill was back on bass? (especially the young girls with big assets) also I've found that when big bands use Deps they're usually low in the mix, Jumpin' Jack Flash sounded all wrong to me when I saw a live recording of it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1503167136' post='3356222'] I'll spare you the horror story behind '[i]Catherine et son ensemble[/i]' (recounted elsewhere here...); I agree that it is all too often the case that the inviting band turns out to be not as 'inviting' as all that..! That's part of the deal, though; when it's good, it is very, very good, but when it is bad it is rotten..! [/quote] My gig last night went down well with the audience. The band were ok, but not excellent or terrible. We got paid more than agreed, so that's always a bonus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 It can be a minefield, for dep and depee(?) alike. There's a story I heard many years ago about a drummer who was asked to dep on an originals gig in a pub up in central London for the paltry sum, even then, of £50. The band leader sent him a cassette tape of the songs (as I said, it was a few years back) but with a busy schedule, he only made time to listen to it in his car on the way to the gig. It was fairly straight forward stuff, so apart from one or two hiccups, he discharged his duties quite well, or so he thought. Afterwards, the band leader took him to task about these and other minor infractions. Feeling aggrieved at what he perceived to be nit-picking, when asked to explain himself, the drummer said "Well, I gave it the fifty quid listen, didn't I?!?" As an odd post script, a few years ago I was playing at a posh wedding. The band were having a very nice meal provided by the client, and afterwards I told this story for the umpteenth time. The drummer, who was a dep, didn't even crack a smile. I asked if he'd heard it before. "Course I f-ing have." he said. "It was me!!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 20, 2017 Share Posted August 20, 2017 (edited) Maybe an audience notice or hear things more than you think. This lot don't need to go to 'Ears R Us' 10:35 onwards. [url="http://youtu.be/IWBkVucVMCY?t=10m35s"]http://youtu.be/IWBkVucVMCY?t=10m35s[/url] Edited August 20, 2017 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 [quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1503221695' post='3356483'] There's a story I heard many years ago about a drummer who was asked to dep on an originals gig in a pub up in central London for the paltry sum, even then, of £50. The band leader sent him a cassette tape of the songs (as I said, it was a few years back) but with a busy schedule, he only made time to listen to it in his car on the way to the gig. It was fairly straight forward stuff, so apart from one or two hiccups, he discharged his duties quite well, or so he thought. Afterwards, the band leader took him to task about these and other minor infractions. Feeling aggrieved at what he perceived to be nit-picking, when asked to explain himself, the drummer said "Well, I gave it the fifty quid listen, didn't I?!?"[/quote] Initial PS, by any chance? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted August 22, 2017 Share Posted August 22, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1503420050' post='3358095'] Initial PS, by any chance? [/quote] Indeed! Probably best we preserve his anonymity... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1503221695' post='3356483'] It can be a minefield, for dep and depee(?) alike. There's a story I heard many years ago about a drummer who was asked to dep on an originals gig in a pub up in central London for the paltry sum, even then, of £50. The band leader sent him a cassette tape of the songs (as I said, it was a few years back) but with a busy schedule, he only made time to listen to it in his car on the way to the gig. It was fairly straight forward stuff, so apart from one or two hiccups, he discharged his duties quite well, or so he thought. Afterwards, the band leader took him to task about these and other minor infractions. Feeling aggrieved at what he perceived to be nit-picking, when asked to explain himself, the drummer said "Well, I gave it the fifty quid listen, didn't I?!?"[/quote] IMO if he wasn't prepared to do a proper job for £50 then he shouldn't have taken the gig in the first place. If that had happened to my band I'd be naming ans shaming the drummer in question. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1503488424' post='3358612'] IMO if he wasn't prepared to do a proper job for £50 then he shouldn't have taken the gig in the first place. If that had happened to my band I'd be naming ans shaming the drummer in question. [/quote] You might be making yourself look slightly foolish. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1503488424' post='3358612'] IMO if he wasn't prepared to do a proper job for £50 then he shouldn't have taken the gig in the first place. If that had happened to my band I'd be naming ans shaming the drummer in question.[/quote] This guy is a fantastic drummer. Naming and shaming is not appropriate. His £50 listen would have turned in a better performance than most of the drummers in the fully rehearsed bands on Basschat. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 (edited) [quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1503488424' post='3358612'] IMO if he wasn't prepared to do a proper job for £50 then he shouldn't have taken the gig in the first place. If that had happened to my band I'd be naming ans shaming the drummer in question. [/quote] [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1503492884' post='3358669'] This guy is a fantastic drummer. Naming and shaming is not appropriate. His £50 listen would have turned in a better performance than most of the drummers in the fully rehearsed bands on Basschat. [/quote] That's a slightly sweeping statement there chris_b, but in the main I'd have to agree. There's two sides to any argument, of course - perhaps the drummer wasn't that great on the night, and who knows how insufferably anal the band leader really was? None of us were there. For me, the bottom line is if he wanted perfection, he should have been prepared to schedule in a proper rehearsal and pay for it. Sounds like he was trying to keep the gig on the cheap without the original drummer, which for me shows scant respect for the audience in general, and musicians in particular. If things did go awry, it would have been down to him, not the dep. And knowing the drummer in question, chris_b is right, he would have delivered the goods. Like I said, it's an minefield! Edited August 23, 2017 by lowregisterhead Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='lowregisterhead' timestamp='1503502391' post='3358773'] That's a slightly sweeping statement there chris_b, but in the main I'd have to agree. [/quote] Oh yes. . . . what's the internet without a little hyperbole and a sweeping statement or two? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 But if you were as good as you could be and someone nit picked your playing, how would you respond? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1503504722' post='3358789'] Oh yes. . . . what's the internet without a little hyperbole and a sweeping statement or two? [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1503504379' post='3358784'] I'm with Big Red on this. For me, I want to be as good as I can be when I'm depping, irrespective of the reward. That does not include not making time to do my homework. If he was that busy, he shouldn't have accepted the gig. Combined with the flippancy of the response when challenged, it does not do the person in question any favours IMHO. [/quote] I see what you're saying, but if you're a pro musician trying to make a living, and you get offered a low paying dep, you'll take it because it might make the difference to whether you can make the rent that week. I've been there in the (thankfully) distant past, having to sell my bass to keep a roof over my head. Whilst I agree with you that considerations of quality of service shouldn't be set aside if a gig doesn't pay much, there has to be a balance. Regardless of whether his preparation should be considered adequate or not, we don't really know how it went on the night, and as TimR said, how would your respond if you'd done a perfectly good job, yet your playing was still picked apart? I found out long ago that it's impossible to manage everyone's expectations, having been at the sharp end of that problem a few times. On one occasion I was asked to dep in an originals band on a gig in Dudley - JB's, for those of us who remember that lovely venue! I was living in South London, the band were from East London, and I had to meet them in North London to get a lift to the gig. There was an hour of originals to learn, but was young, foolish yet eager to please, so I only asked for £50. I was somewhat dismayed when on being picked up, they tried to negotiate me down from that price! Needless to say, I didn't budge. The band leader hardly spoke to me the whole night. There's nowt as queer as folk. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowregisterhead Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1503505920' post='3358803'] Also, given these circumstances are set in the era of Life On Mars? and well prior to the digital music revolution, £50 for a pub gig must have been a fairly good earner, even if it was in London. There are bands knocking about now who don't get themselves much more than that! [/quote] It was in the late 80's as I understand it, so not great money... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 Assuming the story is true. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kusee pee Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 We've used deps on a number of occasions and I never really enjoy it. Even with our regular dep drummer (who was a session musician for many years, including Level 42 no less!), it's a little nerve wracking as it never feels quite as natural. However, we never want to cancel a gig so we make sure we're as prepared as possible. We've had a couple of just show-and-go deps which is tough but we've rarely had an audience been upset about it as we do our very best to keep it tight and play our socks off no matter what. So I'd say it's worth going for but be prepared to feel different and up your game to maintain standards - for example, with all our deps I tend to babysit closely and play the role of conductor. But we always feel good that the show still went on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 The story is true and a pretty good put down to a smart-arse dick-head of a band leader. You guys are killing me with all your huffing and indignant puffing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1503525368' post='3358993'] It's not 'huffing and indignant puffing'. It's called having a professional attitude. The flavour of your post suggests you know more detail of this incident than the rest of us are privy to. Care to share it? [/quote] To be fair, most of the old time pros I've met would have an attitude closer to the drummer in question Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 As I said I know the guy, have played with him in several pickup bands and when he's depped in my bands and know he is a very serious player. You wouldn't find a guy more professional attitude. It was a very clever and humorous put down to someone, who I don't know, but who sounds like they needed to be put in their place. My point is that some of the responses to the story says more about some of the Basschat posters than this drummer. That's all. Let's leave it there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted August 23, 2017 Share Posted August 23, 2017 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1503526771' post='3359003'] To be fair, most of the old time pros I've met would have an attitude closer to the drummer in question [/quote] Absolutely. Also, these stories are ten a penny and get funnier as they get older. They seem to take on a new life with each embellishment as they do the rounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobbytodd Posted August 26, 2017 Share Posted August 26, 2017 6 weeks ago we realised we needed a dep drummer for an upcoming gig so we gave him a setlist and a live recording of out set to learn.we had a few practices and all seemed good.that gig was tonight and it was a complete car crash.he was in to early or to late missing stops not stopping at the end of the song.we do a cover of times like these and god only knows what time signature he was playing it in.never again Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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