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THE OFFICIAL BASSCHAT TOP TEN

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[quote name='6h5g' post='317038' date='Oct 28 2008, 08:13 PM']the names the explanation re my earlier post - billy sheehan[/quote]


what about him? no visiable nor readable explanation??

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[quote name='andy67' post='317457' date='Oct 29 2008, 12:02 PM']what about him? no visiable nor readable explanation??[/quote]
i think he should be on the BC top ten

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I may be mistaken but I don't think I mentioned jazz.....

My point was non-genre orientated on purpose. I don't care if you are talking about Bakithi Kumalo (afro-pop), Carles Benavent (flamenco), Will Lee (session monster), Mick Karn (pop), Percy Jones (weird electro fusion hybrid) or James 'Hutch' Hutchinson (country/pop), there are some exceptional players out there that loads of us don't know and who are objectively 'better'. So 'most popular' is defensible; 'best' isn't.

Or is it just the ones who 'play for the song' who make it into the top ten?

As for my top ten? it is of no consequence.

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My take on the original poll was that 'who's your top bassist' meant 'favourite', or who influenced you most. Terms like 'best' are complete nonsense in this context.

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[quote name='JJTee' post='317520' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:20 PM']My take on the original poll was that 'who's your top bassist' meant 'favourite', or who influenced you most. Terms like 'best' are complete nonsense in this context.[/quote]

+1 I put down Fat Mike who usually plays when off his face on 'e' very entertaining and funny but I wouldn't he was a great player

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[quote name='bilbo230763' post='317517' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:15 PM']I may be mistaken but I don't think I mentioned jazz.....[/quote]

Apologies Bilbo, that was my assumption.

[quote name='bilbo230763' post='317517' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:15 PM']As for my top ten? it is of no consequence.[/quote]

I think it is. We all know there will never be definitive agreement on these polls. I have only been a member here since April and I've already seen several identical ones, probably all with differing results.

I like to read them though, as I get to hear about players I don't know of due to my own personal taste not having got me near them! I especially like to read the ones from people like yourself who I know will mention names that are so far away from what I know I'd never hear of them otherwise. Keep it coming Bilbo!

I'm now off to look at the couple of names you mentioned I haven't heard of.

Thanks (in advance) for the heads up.

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Some Bass Players who are worth looking for but who are less well known but nevertheless bloomin’ marvelous bass players anyway. Not necessarily favourites but highly creditable players some people may not have heard of.

T.M Stevens – John McLaughlin, Whitney Houston,
Tom Kennedy – Bill Connors
Brian Bromberg – Solo artist, Dave Grusin, Stan Getz (also a jazz acoustic player)
Lincoln Goines – Mike Stern, Dave Valentin
Jeff Andrews – Mike Stern, Mike Brecker
Victor Bailey – Weather Report & Madonna
Jimmy Johnson – Wayne Johnson, Flim & The BBs, James Taylor
Alphonso Johnson – Weather Report, Phil Collins
Andy West – Rama, Dixie Dregs
Tim Landers – Al DiMeola
Sylvan Richardson – Andy Shepard
Bunny Brunel – Chick Corea
Mark Egan – Pat Metheny, Airto/Flora Purim,
Randy Tico - Airto/Flora Purim
Steve Swallow – Gary Burton, John Scofield
Kermit Driscoll – Bill Frissel, Dave Douglas, Buddy Rich
Marc Johnson – Bill Evans, Eliane Elias, John Taylor
Scott Colley – Jim Hall
Chris Lawrence – Andy Shepard, John Paricelli, Norma Winstone
Dudley Phillips – Womak and Womak, John Paricelli, Perfect Houseplants
Mike Mondesir – Billy Cobham, John McLaughlin, Human Chain
Ben Wolfe – Wynton Marsalis, Harry Connick Jr.
Robert Hurst – Wynton Marsalis
Marcus Shelby – solo artist
Christian McBride – Wynton Marsalis, Pat Metheny
Steve Rodby – Pat Metheny, Simon and Bard Group
Reginald Veal – Wynto Marsalis
Eddie Gomez – Chick Corea, others
Malachai Flavors – Art Ensemble of Chicago
Kim Clarke - Defunkt
Leyland Sklar – James Taylor, Phil Collins
Nathan East – Phil Collins, Eric Clapton, Fourplay
Carles Benavent – Paco De Lucia, Gil Goldstein

Well, you asked....

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[quote name='6h5g' post='317516' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:14 PM']i think he should be on the BC top ten[/quote]


I wholeheartedly agree!

as long as you mean in the top 10 not on it! :)

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[quote name='andy67' post='317678' date='Oct 29 2008, 03:42 PM']I wholeheartedly agree!

as long as you mean in the top 10 not on it! :)[/quote]

yeah alright in the top 10 :huh:

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[quote name='bilbo230763' post='317517' date='Oct 29 2008, 01:15 PM']I may be mistaken but I don't think I mentioned jazz.....

My point was non-genre orientated on purpose. I don't care if you are talking about Bakithi Kumalo (afro-pop), Carles Benavent (flamenco), Will Lee (session monster), Mick Karn (pop), Percy Jones (weird electro fusion hybrid) or James 'Hutch' Hutchinson (country/pop), there are some exceptional players out there that loads of us don't know and who are objectively 'better'. So 'most popular' is defensible; 'best' isn't.

Or is it just the ones who 'play for the song' who make it into the top ten?

As for my top ten? it is of no consequence.[/quote]

Ah, how to qualify "objectively better"? Who is the best chef? The one who makes the food you most like eating. There are technical players I love and technical players I have no time for, and there are players I find incredibly musical and those I don't; there are even players who are both, but others will have entirely different opinions. If "better" means they have more musical knowledge or can play more difficult things, or can play in more styles or with more accurate time, then you could argue that better is definable. But as soon as musicality comes into it (as it always should) everyone is governed by their own tastes and preferences. If person X thinks Jaco is the most musical payer ever to walk the earth, then how can I prove he's not? It's impossible. If person Y or Z thinks McCartney or Flea is, then their opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. You can't possibly argue that Stuart Zender is as technically gifted or as musically knowledgeable as Jeff Berlin, but does that make Jeff Berlin better?

I agree that the players you've mentioned would rate very highly in my book, but that doesn't make them better players than a player in a punk band, for instance; they may be awful at playing punk, which is a musical form in its own right. Who's the best out of Picasso, Rembrandt, Van Gogh, Degas? I know which I prefer but I could never tell you who was better. What's the best book you've ever read? Every person will likely give a different answer, and if asked to qualify it will likely fall back on "because it touched me the most" or similar. FWIW I prefer Chris Squire to Jaco and Jean Jacques Burnel to Marcus Miller in every possible way and by a nautical mile, so how do I decide who's "better" out of those? In a 100m sprint on a given night, yes, you can say who's the better man/woman (in this case I'd reckon JJ or Marcus.. :huh: ). But as soon as artistic issues come into it, it all goes out of the window.

To use the Pat Metheny analogy again, he's both very technically gifted and knowledgeable. However I hate everything about his playing, from his tone to his note choice. I know you really like him. Is he technically more gifted and knowledgeable than Dave Gilmour? Absolutely, by far. Is he better? Not where I'm standing; to me he's not even in the same league. You would probably argue otherwise, and I believe we'd both be right.

BTW, I like jazz.... :)

I once had an argument with an upright player who insisted that Ray Brown was "better" than Neils HOP. How on earth can anyone decide something like that????

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[quote name='4000' post='317904' date='Oct 29 2008, 08:19 PM']Ah, how to qualify "objectively better"? Who is the best chef? The one who makes the food you most like eating. There are technical players I love and technical players I have no time for, and there are players I find incredibly musical and those I don't; there are even players who are both, but others will have entirely different opinions. If "better" means they have more musical knowledge or can play more difficult things, or can play in more styles or with more accurate time, then you could argue that better is definable. But as soon as musicality comes into it (as it always should) everyone is governed by their own tastes and preferences. If person X thinks Jaco is the most musical payer ever to walk the earth, then how can I prove he's not? It's impossible. If person Y or Z thinks McCartney or Flea is, then their opinion is just as valid as anyone else's. You can't possibly argue that Stuart Zender is as technically gifted or as musically knowledgeable as Jeff Berlin, but does that make Jeff Berlin better?

I agree that the players you've mentioned would rate very highly in my book, but that doesn't make them better players than a player in a punk band, for instance; they may be awful at playing punk, which is a musical form in its own right. Who's the best out of Picasso, Rembrandt, Van Gogh, Degas? I know which I prefer but I could never tell you who was better. What's the best book you've ever read? Every person will likely give a different answer, and if asked to qualify it will likely fall back on "because it touched me the most" or similar. FWIW I prefer Chris Squire to Jaco and Jean Jacques Burnel to Marcus Miller in every possible way and by a nautical mile, so how do I decide who's "better" out of those? In a 100m sprint on a given night, yes, you can say who's the better man/woman (in this case I'd reckon JJ or Marcus.. :huh: ). But as soon as artistic issues come into it, it all goes out of the window.

To use the Pat Metheny analogy again, he's both very technically gifted and knowledgeable. However I hate everything about his playing, from his tone to his note choice. I know you really like him. Is he technically more gifted and knowledgeable than Dave Gilmour? Absolutely, by far. Is he better? Not where I'm standing; to me he's not even in the same league. You would probably argue otherwise, and I believe we'd both be right.

BTW, I like jazz.... :)

I once had an argument with an upright player who insisted that Ray Brown was "better" than Neils HOP. How on earth can anyone decide something like that????[/quote]
Very well reasoned point of view, if I may say so...

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[quote name='bilbo230763' post='316795' date='Oct 28 2008, 03:54 PM']So, lets call this a 'Most Popular' poll rather than a 'Best' because, objectively, most of the players everyone here is raving about are pretty limited and, considering the full basket of skills, are likely to be found wanting.[/quote]

i didnt realise this was a BEST poll. it says TOP TEN in the title. there is a difference - i voted for players who inspired me to be more creative, players who i have learnt things from and put things into my music from.

i voted timmy c, as i said, because of his tone, and also the way he talks about finding that perfect tone in interviews. he inspired me to do my best to find my perfect tone, and i acknowledge that he isnt one of the best, but ive learnt from him and hes inspired me, so hes in my top three.

same with ben osmundson of zebrahead. he's nowhere near the best player ever. but he taught me that just cos the guitarist is bashing away at power chords, doesnt mean you have to. he taught me about moving up and down scales to create an effective bassline (listen to anthem by zebrahead and how he uses the major scale). he plays what i think is, for that style of music, the perfect mix of exciting, fun, different basslines and simply holding the rhythm down whilst the guitarist does his thing.

and i voted billy sheehan just because he left me in awe when i first heard him. hes one of the best, but not boring to listen to (i find listening to jaco and wooten and whoever really boring, a guy standing there playing bass by itself just isnt interesting, im afraid).

so yeah, i dunno about everyone else, but i voted my top three and not the three best players cos thats what the question asked.

EDIT: my apologies. it does say the best players, but it didnt on the thread that we voted in.

Edited by lwtait

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[quote name='4000' post='317904' date='Oct 29 2008, 08:19 PM']Ah, how to qualify "objectively better"? <snip>[/quote]
Ladies and gents, the definitive statement on the impossibility of quantifying 'best'. Expressed far better than I ever could have.

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[quote name='4000' post='317904' date='Oct 29 2008, 08:19 PM']I once had an argument with an upright player who insisted that Ray Brown was "better" than Neils HOP. How on earth can anyone decide something like that????[/quote]

Better tone and swings better (which is, after all, the point). NHOP is flash, has poor taste and sounds [i]really[/i] nasal to me.

I fully accept the 'best is subjective' argument and know perfectly well that Jeff Berlin couldn't do what Lemmy does without a serious change of perspective but, if you take the full range of skills; technique, musicality, groove potential, tone etc. it is defensible to suggest that someone like Will Lee is probably more likely to be able to fill the shoes of Paolo Gregoletto (Trivium) than Gregoletto is to fill Lee's shoes on the Letterman sow. That doesn't diminish the contribution that each individual makes to the music they play but it would let you argue that he is 'better' as in 'more skilled/more rounded' as a player.

The truth is, it's all completely irrelevant unless you are a producer looking for a session player, then knowing whose is the best man for the job is your bread and butter :)

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[quote name='Jean-Luc Pickguard' post='317778' date='Oct 29 2008, 05:25 PM']Billy Sheehan hasn't played the same since he evicted all his body thetans. :)[/quote]


believe me billy still has his soul but...if he has evicted his scientific soul then that is news to me!?

andy

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[quote name='bilbo230763' post='318147' date='Oct 30 2008, 08:50 AM']Better tone and swings better (which is, after all, the point). NHOP is flash, has poor taste and sounds [i]really[/i] nasal to me.

I fully accept the 'best is subjective' argument and know perfectly well that Jeff Berlin couldn't do what Lemmy does without a serious change of perspective but, if you take the full range of skills; technique, musicality, groove potential, tone etc. it is defensible to suggest that someone like Will Lee is probably more likely to be able to fill the shoes of Paolo Gregoletto (Trivium) than Gregoletto is to fill Lee's shoes on the Letterman sow. That doesn't diminish the contribution that each individual makes to the music they play but it would let you argue that he is 'better' as in 'more skilled/more rounded' as a player.

The truth is, it's all completely irrelevant unless you are a producer looking for a session player, then knowing whose is the best man for the job is your bread and butter :)[/quote]


I think it is great being the best you can be while having an arsenal capable of doing anything...however the best of it for me is striving to find your own identity when playing. being an individual, doing something different or taking the bass to another place is the most difficult task asked of any player of which, very few, possibly one or two have achieved/attained.

and, by the way what a great topic!

andy

Edited by andy67

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[quote name='4000' post='317904' date='Oct 29 2008, 08:19 PM']To use the Pat Metheny analogy again, he's both very technically gifted and knowledgeable. However I hate everything about his playing, from his tone to his note choice. I know you really like him. Is he technically more gifted and knowledgeable than Dave Gilmour? Absolutely, by far. Is he better? Not where I'm standing; to me he's not even in the same league. You would probably argue otherwise, and I believe we'd both be right.[/quote]

How can you not like 'Rejoicing', 4000? Its perfick!!

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[quote name='marcus bell' post='316765' date='Oct 28 2008, 03:14 PM']mark king is best, period....[/quote]

I don't know about 'period', but that was almost an ellipses.

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[quote name='bilbo230763' post='318147' date='Oct 30 2008, 08:50 AM']Better tone and swings better (which is, after all, the point). NHOP is flash, has poor taste and sounds [i]really[/i] nasal to me.

The truth is, it's all completely irrelevant unless you are a producer looking for a session player, then knowing whose is the best man for the job is your bread and butter :huh:[/quote]

Absolutely (although I like Ray Brown and Neils equally for different reasons so disagree on that point...which was kind of my point :huh: . - BTW I [i]don't[/i] think Neils has poor taste, but again that just serves to illustrate the conundrum - the "to me" part is [i]the[/i] most important part of that sentence).

I always used to argue that Lemmy would be awful in Weather Report but Jaco would've been equally bad in Motorhead....but damn, I'd like to see both of those situations just to see what it was like! :)

Edited by 4000

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[quote name='bilbo230763' post='318201' date='Oct 30 2008, 10:10 AM']How can you not like 'Rejoicing', 4000? Its perfick!![/quote]

I'm sorry, I just can't get with PM. Everything about his playing turns me off....but you'd doubtless say the same about McLaughlin. You say potato, I say potato.. :) . Or possibly carrots, judging by your avatar. You been in Farmer Maggot's crop again? :huh:

Edited by 4000

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Thanks to those who cast tiebreaker votes.

The final chart now looks like this:

01) James Jamerson - 20 votes
02) John Entwistle - 17 votes
03) Geddy Lee/Stuart Zender - joint 11 votes
05) Marcus Miller - 10
06) Bernard Edwards - 9 votes
07) Jaco Pastorius - 8 votes
08) Jean-Jacques Burnel/Pino Palladino - joint 7 votes
10) Aston Barrett/Stanley Clarke/Les Claypool/Duck Dunn/Flea/Mark King - joint 6 votes

To be honest it all got a bit confusing in the end. I did my best, but i make absolutely no apololgies for any errors. Any disagreements, count 'em up yourself or just argue amongst yourselves. It's all just a bit of fun after all.

Billy Sheehan didn't make it into the chart. What a shame. :)

Cheers,

Jake M

Edited by Jake_M

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[quote name='Jake_M' post='318764' date='Oct 31 2008, 01:26 AM']Thanks to those who cast tiebreaker votes.

The final chart now looks like this:

01) James Jamerson - 20 votes
02) John Entwistle - 17 votes
03) Geddy Lee/Stuart Zender - joint 11 votes
05) Marcus Miller - 10
06) Bernard Edwards - 9 votes
07) Jaco Pastorius - 8 votes
08) Jean-Jacques Burnel/Pino Palladino - joint 7 votes
10) Aston Barrett/Stanley Clarke/Les Claypool/Duck Dunn/Flea/Mark King - joint 6 votes

To be honest it all got a bit confusing in the end. I did my best, but i make absolutely no apololgies for any errors. Any disagreements, count 'em up yourself or just argue amongst yourselves. It's all just a bit of fun after all.

Billy Sheehan didn't make it into the chart. What a shame. :)

Cheers,

Jake M[/quote]

Thanks and well done Jake!

So that's that then.. 8 out of 10 bass playing cats said they preferred James Jamerson for breakfast, so he is the best...period. Fact! :huh:

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