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Barefaced FR/FR?

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I also have both Berg and BF cabs - for me the BF edges the Bergs by a smidgen.



Which Berg did you get Mark?

Have you gigged it yet?

I always find Bergs to be one of those manufacturers that really come alive in a gigging band situation (as opposed to sounding great solo'd in a shop or at home).

Some of the older ones can be a bit picky on stage positioning - mostly the rear ported ones. Jim Bergantino listened to user opinions and moved ports to the front on most of the newer models.

This doesn't mean the rear ported ones are bad, you just have to think about more about where you angle them to any rear walls.

Sorry to anyone else reading this - I know it's off topic to the main thread here. Edited by Dad3353

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I could have done that for you before I had to sell my Big Twin. I have a very special Marshall SuperBass here and some of the best amplifier modelling software in my studio. Sansamp would have been easy to get hold of, but alas minus the BT2 and 4x12, I'm unable to help!



Thanks anyway, Dood. It's the thought that counts! Edited by Dad3353

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Sorry to anyone else reading this - I know it's off topic to the main thread here.




Hang loose man, we've got a pretty flexible vibe going on here! Edited by Dad3353

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Hi 🙂


I've two berg ae210s and a barefaced big twin 2. The bergs don't like being in a corner so I tend to have them a few feet away from the back wall.. the BT2 just sounds a bit more open and distinct if that makes any sense ? I'm happy to gig either and would be very happy if I just had either manufacturers product. The build quality of the bergs is superb.




Which Berg did you get Mark?

Have you gigged it yet?

I always find Bergs to be one of those manufacturers that really come alive in a gigging band situation (as opposed to sounding great solo'd in a shop or at home).

Some of the older ones can be a bit picky on stage positioning - mostly the rear ported ones. Jim Bergantino listened to user opinions and moved ports to the front on most of the newer models.

This doesn't mean the rear ported ones are bad, you just have to think about more about where you angle them to any rear walls.

Sorry to anyone else reading this - I know it's off topic to the main thread here.

Edited by Dad3353

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Hi 🙂


I've two berg ae210s and a barefaced big twin 2. The bergs don't like being in a corner so I tend to have them a few feet away from the back wall.. the BT2 just sounds a bit more open and distinct if that makes any sense ? I'm happy to gig either and would be very happy if I just had either manufacturers product. The build quality of the bergs is superb.



I gigged with an AE210 for quite a while. They really are so well built and survive knocks without a mark (unlike a lot of other brands out there). How they achieve this level of build quality but at such light weights is beyond me!

That rear porting can cause some issues in tight spaces but I found a Gramma pad often helped on a wooden floor.

I only sold mine to get a CN series which is another 25% lighter. Doesn't quite have the same depth as the AE but the lighter weight, and front porting, made the difference worthwhile for me. Pairs really well with a nice valve pre like my Jule and Demeter heads.
  Edited by Dad3353

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PS - using the word "about", when talking specs isn't great either.




Saying "about" is far more accurate than being definitive. Max peak SPL of any loudspeaker varies across its bandwidth and varies with the content of the signal and thus the power compression. Quoted max SPL specs are usually based on a simple arithmetic calculation of adding power handling or amp power output (converted to dB gain) to nominal sensitivity. They're an approximation at best.

Edited by Dad3353

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I could have done that for you before I had to sell my Big Twin. I have a very special Marshall SuperBass here and some of the best amplifier modelling software in my studio. Sansamp would have been easy to get hold of, but alas minus the BT2 and 4x12, I'm unable to help!



Thanks anyway Dood, it's the thought that counts! Edited by Dad3353

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Morning/afternoon Alex, thanks for your response.

About is never a good word when it comes to specifications of a cab - when it comes to dB - to those not in the know, 136dB could be "about 130dB" - which we both know is a significant difference. Choose a figure and nail it the mast, so you are at least comparable to the other manufacturers.

I'm aware of the "In terms of sonic performance and sheer output it's just like any top price pro touring 1x18"" statement you made - but in fact, the figures are quite comparable to most 1x18s, "pro touring" or not. In fact, given the price of the BF 18, its pretty comparable to other 18s in a similar price range - most of which would not be classed as "pro touring", but hey. The thing is, with the pressures of Far East pricing, the gap between semi-pro and pro, in terms of sound, is fast decreasing. I know where you are coming from - but I do feel that that 2x18 statement is very misleading.

But you are absolutely right - I think that you could be on to something with this sub (mostly around the weight aspect of it) - hence my interest in it and many questions I have about it. Yes, I am concerned about the build of it - to achieve the lightness - but if it's rigid and performs, then yes, it's gonna be killer. I am also concerned about the 4 small ports and the chance of unwanted audible air movement. I am also concerned about the fact that the amp appears to be being discontinued - so where would that leave me, should I purchase any, should the amp die.

You see? I'm not slagging anybody off - I'm trying to get my head around whether I should be buying these things.

Edited by Dad3353

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I've some sympathy for Alex here. I modeled the Faital Pro driver and it's a lovely driver with a nice flat response in a relatively small cab. In addition it's got a really good excursion figure compared with a lot of speakers in its class so it'll maintain it's output better than some. A lot of the 'opposition' have extraordinary claims about output from their class D amps but have fairly limited power supplies. I couldn't find another cab comparable in weight. This looks like a good driver in a very decent cab.

The problem is the clearly unsupportable claims being made around the industry. More than one manufacturer gives both the maximum output and the efficiency of the cab. Two at least quote their cabs as 99dB/W and the power as 1000W or 1200W (effectively you add 30dB @ 1000W) which gives their maximum output as 129dB. They are claiming 134dB maximum output.

What's a competitor to do? Make the same dubious claims or stick to the truth and risk people making decisions based on fake numbers?

Edited by Phil Starr

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What's a competitor to do? Make the same dubious claims or stick to the truth and risk people making decisions based on fake numbers?




Conform, or swim against the tide? :/ Where is the incentive to do the latter?

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why be the honest one who loses business? Although I do wonder how many buyers of mainstream bass gear actually read the specs at all... Edited by Dad3353

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Conform, or swim against the tide? :/ Where is the incentive to do the latter? To appease passive/aggressive pedantic members of specialist forums (fora?) with axes to grind and/or too much time on their hands? That comment wasn't aimed at anyone is particular BTW... :P

Damned if you do, damned if you don't. Why be the honest one who loses business? Although I do wonder how many buyers of mainstream bass gear actually read the specs at all...



Passive/aggressive right there in your first paragraph. You couldn't make this stuff up.

Maybe if people did more research into purchasing, then there would be more people happier with their gear? Edited by Dad3353

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IME research is almost completely worthless.

The only thing that matters is how a product performs when you are actually using it. Only then can you make an educated decision.

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IME research is almost completely worthless.

The only thing that matters is how a product performs when you are actually using it. Only then can you make an educated decision.


I dunno, you did a fair bit of research when choosing your wireless...? Edited by Dad3353

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The big problem with research is that it has the capacity to reveal things you would rather remain ignorant of, or don't understand, or don't know what to do with. A tricky one.

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No - just an observation. A bit touchy perhaps? -_-


Your games won't get a rise out of me. Edited by Dad3353

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Maybe I should just keep out of these threads... :(



Boom.

For the record, there are plenty of threads involving BF that I choose to say nothing in - why? Because I have zero interest in them - like a lot of other threads on the forum. This thread caught my interest, as it's regarding FRFR. As a Kemper user, I am keen to hear how the BF FR800 performs. In fact, if you look through the thread, I even stated that the OP should try and get one from BF to try. The thread took a different direction, as many threads do... and hence the conversations started. Again, bar the feet and handle thing, which is a bit of a forum in joke, just like Ashdowns catching fire... I think I have been very fair in the thread and I am confused as to where, again, apart from the handles and feet comments, seen where I have made derisory comments. If it would make you feel better, I could share the love and go on about how Sandberg file their frets too deep on the upper frets, or maybe how Status built me an crappy neck and refused to take responsibility for it... how about the fact that EBS have cheapened all their hardware and coverings to pinch pennies? These are all valid observations and as a potential customer, I am entitled to make such comments. I have never said that nobody should buy a BF. Nor would I ever.

The marketing claims is not recent - the whole "2 of our speakers equals 1 of our competitors" has stood for a long time. That's just one example. I could continue. A similar conversation on BC debunked the 4ohm/8ohm switch on another popular cabinet - which was proven to be utter BS. If people make some hefty claims, they will be questioned. Similarly, if people make cabs, where the handles and feet fall off, they will be questioned. People did it for Skoda, Alfa and Lancia for being total rust buckets, why would any other product be immune?


PS - you state that it was aimed at nobody in particular - and then said you were then aiming it me and several others. Well done Geoff. Slow clap. Edited by Dad3353

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Can you gents all knock it off please? I'm getting bored of checking back on this thread for useful info just to see all your back and forth, which isn't progressing this thread at all :(

Edited by Dad3353

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Can you gents all knock it off please? I'm getting bored of checking back on this thread for useful info just to see all your back and forth, which isn't progressing this thread at all :(


I am trying to - but I am not having somebody take pot shots at me without the right to reply. Edited by Dad3353

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Sorry :$ Bad weekend. No excuse. I will delete my offending comments, but that might make the thread look a bit odd...

Edited by Dad3353

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I'd please ask that you both remain involved, you've both had a lot of valid points, but I'm just really hoping this thread moves on...

Here's a question I wanna ask, and maybe you both have some ideas?

If you were buying a cab to cover both guitar and bass through a kemper or similar right now, what would you buy? And the stipulation of mine is... it HAS to look like a cab, not a pa speaker?

Cheers in advance for your replies!

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A quick addition... I'm close to pulling the trigger on barefaced big twin 2 to cover that need, but have also read very good things about the line6 firehawk 1500(?) I think it's called, as an free cab, bypassing the amp part, but have concerns that it's more guitar focused and wouldn't do the bass lows justice?

Opinions?

Edited by Wooks79

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If you were buying a cab to cover both guitar and bass through a kemper or similar right now, what would you buy? And the stipulation of mine is... it HAS to look like a cab, not a pa speaker?




A couple of years ago I borrowed and demoed a TKS1126. Although I was slightly underwhelmed by the sound it gave for my bass (although I didn't really have time to EQ it properly or find the optimum position for it), it sounded absolutely awesome when my son played his guitar (US Fender Strat through a Vox l'il Night Train amp). Rich, full, detailed, articulate and fantastic dispersion! Didn't try it with distorted guitar sounds, but with the lovely, bell-like clean Strat tones, the cab was a revelation B| Edited by Dad3353

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A couple of years ago I borrowed and demoed a TKS1126. Although I was slightly underwhelmed by the sound it gave for my bass (although I didn't really have time to EQ it properly or find the optimum position for it), it sounded absolutely awesome when my son played his guitar (US Fender Strat through a Vox l'il Night Train amp). Rich, full, detailed, articulate and fantastic dispersion! Didn't try it with distorted guitar sounds, but with the lovely, bell-like clean Strat tones, the cab was a revelation B|



I forgot all about TKS, they definitely look the absolute business, very nice looking cabs! Edited by Dad3353

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A quick addition... I'm close to pulling the trigger on barefaced big twin 2 to cover that need, but have also read very good things about the line6 firehawk 1500(?) I think it's called, as an free cab, bypassing the amp part, but have concerns that it's more guitar focused and wouldn't do the bass lows justice?

Opinions?


This is one of the problems that I have with FRFR cabs in general - they appear to be very guitar focused - so I can expect them to be not very happy with them having the lows that you would normally out from a bass. This is why cabs like that cab I'm seemingly not allowed to mention (the one with the low crossover point and the super high quality drivers in an abs case) seem to fit the bill well, along with cabs like the Yamaha DXR15. I don't know anybody having experience of the FR800 as a FRFR for both guitar and bass... but it has been mentioned numerous times as being suitable for bass. How it would cope with guitars - I am interested in, as the HF horn is very important as to whether a FRFR with a guitar sound sharp or smooth.

I see FRFR speakers for bass having the same requirement as PA. If you wouldn't run your bass hard through your, say, vocal PA speakers, without fear of them imploding, then you wouldn't want to use those speakers for the basis of a FRFR solution. Edited by Dad3353

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