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WHY BUDDY HOLLY STILL MATTERS

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[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489398245' post='3256507']
Absolutely - even if he did nick the odd melody & chord progression from others.
[/quote]

:D

Good Composers Borrow, Great Composers Steal. (not my words).

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[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1489398245' post='3256507']
Absolutely - even if he did nick the odd melody & chord progression from others.


[/quote]one of my pet theories is most great songs nick from others, it gives them a familiarity that drags the listener in in the first place and you've got a tough job not reusing a chord progression when it's only 3 chords lol

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IMO, all the successful early rock & roll stars matter in one way or the other.

IMO, if you don't have some understanding of rock & roll history eventually your going to run into a wall.

Blue

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[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1489461722' post='3257134']
Uh, Paul Warning, Peggy Sue has 4 chords. Just being pedantic. :rolleyes:
[/quote]

What's an 'F' between friends.
:)

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http://basschat.co.uk/topic/302139-chuck-berry-et-alfunny-dep/page__view__findpost__p__3257098

This is relevant in my opinion. Wouldn't it be fair to say that BH among others made the "underground" music of the time popular?

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[quote name='Marty Forrer' timestamp='1489461722' post='3257134']
Uh, Paul Warning, Peggy Sue has 4 chords. Just being pedantic. :rolleyes:
[/quote]yep you are quite right, there is an Fing F in Peggy Sue :angry:

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[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489480335' post='3257210']
yep you are quite right, there is an Fing F in Peggy Sue :angry:
[/quote]

Yes, quiet clever that. When you consider F# is the more popular related minor chord in the key of A in pop music. :)

Edited by Hobbayne

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[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1489483607' post='3257246']
Yes, quiet clever that. When you consider F# is the more popular related minor chord in the key of A in pop music. :)
[/quote]It doesn't quite fit in with music theory does it? another song I know that does something similiar (I'm sure there are loads of others) is The Ramones (another Holly Ramones link :rolleyes: ) is Sheena is a Punk Rocker, chords C F G A , but in the middle bit it throws in a Bb, very effective though

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Most things fit in with music theory, even the 'Buddy Holly Chord/Interval' (as is known in some circles, or Flatted (lower) Submediant 'b VI').
It's been around for ever. :D
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Submediant

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1489448726' post='3257116']
IMO, all the successful early rock & roll stars matter in one way or the other.

IMO, if you don't have some understanding of rock & roll history eventually your going to run into a wall.

Blue
[/quote]
Or roll into a wall made of rocks.

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[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489487134' post='3257281']
The Ramones
[/quote]

Indeed. Even a song as apparently simple as [url="https://youtu.be/6siGKxcKol0"]Rockaway Beach[/url] has some interesting little twists and turns. A particular pitfall for the unwary is the odd little bit after the choruses.

Likewise, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlMhDfHsfDI"]Bonzo goes to Bitburg[/url] is distinguished by an almost Wagnerian reluctance to resolve the vocal part. The listener briefly experiences relief after the key change when bells pick out a sparse pattern around the chords. Then it's back to the grind.

Perhaps the Ramones' interest in dislocated chord passages and twisty arrangements was driven by Johnny's refusal to play solos (or minor chords :o )

[color=#faebd7].[/color]

Edited by skankdelvar

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1489507091' post='3257521']
Indeed. Even a song as apparently simple as [url="https://youtu.be/6siGKxcKol0"]Rockaway Beach[/url] has some interesting little twists and turns. A particular pitfall for the unwary is the odd little bit after the choruses.

Likewise, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlMhDfHsfDI"]Bonzo goes to Bitburg[/url] is distinguished by an almost Wagnerian reluctance to resolve the vocal part. The listener briefly experiences relief after the key change when bells pick out a sparse pattern around the chords. Then it's back to the grind.

Perhaps the Ramones' interest in dislocated chord passages and twisty arrangements was driven by Johnny's refusal to play solos (or minor chords :o )

[color=#faebd7].[/color]
[/quote]never knew you were a Ramones aficionado Skank (doffs cap) but yes they are are all sorts of interesting twists in their songs, in fact you'd be hard pressed to find any of their songs that only have 3 chords though I suspect the reason for the lack of minor chords is they sound crap when played with distortion, and I'm not sure he was good enough to play solo's.

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Bit of a rarity.

http://youtu.be/H18AMREUUnk

Definitely inspired by classic rock n roll.

Edited by Cato

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[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1489511303' post='3257561']
Bit of a rarity.

Definitely inspired by classis rock n roll.
[/quote]

Croikey! I knew he sometimes played single note passages (California Sun) but bent-note Chuck-isms?

I may have to go and lie down.

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[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1489511303' post='3257561']
Bit of a rarity.

[media]http://youtu.be/H18AMREUUnk[/media]

Definitely inspired by classis rock n roll.
[/quote]I've obviously underestimated Johnny's guitar playing abilities :) great clip though

Edited by PaulWarning

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[quote name='PaulWarning' timestamp='1489519319' post='3257646']
I've obviously uninterested Johnny's guitar playing abilities :) great clip though
[/quote]

Probably not.

There was quite a lot of lead work on their later stuff,mostly short little twiddly bits on intros etc. which were apparently nearly all played by producer Daniel del Rey.

Johnny certainly didn't play those parts live on the one occasion I was privileged enough to see them.

Edited by Cato

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[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1489520317' post='3257656']
Probably not.

There was quite a lot of lead work on their later stuff,mostly short little twiddly bits on intros etc. which was apparently nearly all played by producer Daniel del Rey.

Johnny certainly didn't play those parts live on the one occasion I was privileged enough to see them.
[/quote]yes, one of my many favourite Ramones songs, Chasing the Night, had a guitar solo in it on the studio version, they played it on the Old Grey Whistle Test and just missed the solo out :lol:

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[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1489507091' post='3257521']
Indeed. Even a song as apparently simple as [url="https://youtu.be/6siGKxcKol0"]Rockaway Beach[/url] has some interesting little twists and turns. A particular pitfall for the unwary is the odd little bit after the choruses.

Likewise, [url="https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlMhDfHsfDI"]Bonzo goes to Bitburg[/url] is distinguished by an almost Wagnerian reluctance to resolve the vocal part. The listener briefly experiences relief after the key change when bells pick out a sparse pattern around the chords. Then it's back to the grind.

Perhaps the Ramones' interest in dislocated chord passages and twisty arrangements was driven by Johnny's refusal to play solos (or minor chords :o )

[color=#faebd7].[/color]
[/quote]

Rockaway Beach was a cool place to hang.

Blue

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[quote name='blue' timestamp='1489547076' post='3257836']
Rockaway Beach was a cool place to hang.

Blue
[/quote]

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[quote name='lowdown' timestamp='1489477269' post='3257168']
What's an 'F' between friends.
:)
[/quote]
Isn't that what they call "with benefits"..?

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On 11/03/2017 at 12:24, Downdown said:


Buddy Holly showed that you didn't need to be a guitar virtuoso to write good songs (personally I think it can be disadvantage) 3 chords will do it, it's the lyrics and the melody line that's important, the Ramones did the same thing years later



Er, what about all those early blues players, or do we discount them because they were poor and black? Buddy Holly was just one of the first to tap into an already well established genre and repackage it for the post-war baby boomers. More marketing creativity than musical creativity I'd say.

If you play some Buddy songs the way he did they are actually more complicated than you think not just12 bar and open chords.

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