chris_b Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1488537386' post='3249732']the dep doesn't have to put up with all the band drama crap [/quote] I depped for a fantastic blues/rock band many years ago now. The argument started as we were packing up and the band had all but broken up by the time my gear was in the car!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Deps can dep out a dep. I managed to pick up a couple of great gigs in 2 bands last year because the dep had to cancel. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='dood' timestamp='1488537660' post='3249735'] ....... often encompassing re-arrangements of songs, new keys and custom segways. [/quote] You can play bass riding one of those things????!!!! Impressed.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ivansc Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1488500541' post='3249585'] Ivan, I like where your heads at. I also like 1k gigs for 4 guys. That's "good money" where I come from. Blue [/quote] What we all need is more NYEs per annum! Mind you I did Millenium for 500 pounds and all my buddies were laughing at me going out so cheap on a once in a lifetime date.. I wound up with the last laugh when so many of the 1k a man gigs got blown out at the last minute because of insufficient ticket sales! Me? I got my 500 plus food and accommodation for the night for Mrs. Terrible and I, plus another couple. And the gig was really enjoyable, nice friendly folks many of whom we already knew. I guess there is a moral there somewhere. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I did some dep jobs, mostly for my previous band (wich i had to leave) as i already know most of the current setlist and they're great guys to hang with. I get the same as the rest of them plus some extra to cover fuel costs. I have a minimal value in my mind to get payed for a gig, if someone ofeers me less than that i wouldn't take it. My band ocasionaly brings in a keyboard player to do some gigs, a great friend of ours and excelent musician, only problem is that he lives a bit far from us so we usualy pay him a bit more than the rest when the cache is low. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1488550033' post='3249926'] I depped for a fantastic blues/rock band many years ago now. The argument started as we were packing up and the band had all but broken up by the time my gear was in the car!! [/quote] I can imagine you calmly watching while eating an icecream, sitting comfortably... unless the argument was about who decided to use this dep Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1488551050' post='3249939'] You can play bass riding one of those things????!!!! Impressed.... [/quote] Yarp, and a 7 string, with one hand behind my back. It pays to offer these 'value-add' services ha ha ha!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dand666 Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 You get what they offer you, otherwise someone else will do it. Depping, for me is mainly about networking, do a good job and you'll no doubt get asked back. Last week, phone call Friday night for bass dep at a disco gig the next day £200. 41 song set, lots of new songs to learn, and the ones I did know where all in different keys/structures e.t.c Pain in the arse, but it's all good fun. Keeps you on your toes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1488551566' post='3249953'] I disagree, but only from personal standpoint as a dep. I would never hold myself up as worth more than any other member of a band that I was depping with. Even taking into account however desperate they might be. All I ask is that I get sufficient time to do my prep. To ask for more than the others would make me feel like I was taking advantage of them. If I discovered that I had received less as a dep than the regular bass player would have received, that would be the last time I would hve played with them. Where does that stop? The word gets around that I'll play a gig for less than the others, next time it's even less and then less again. Resentment ensues. Alternatively, its known that I will play any gig I'm available for, but for an equal share. Whenever I've had a call for a dep gig, the first question is always "Am I available?", not "Can you do x date for x amount of £'s". I like to get these things clear from the get go. Equal pay for equal work and given adequate prep time I'll do a top job. Insufficient prep time and I won't wing it. Half the buzz of saying yes to the dep spots is I get to play stuff that I wouldn't normally. I don't expect to be reimbursed for the prep time either. That's down to me if I commit to the gig. I look at that part as a learning experience. [/quote] It's not really about valuing yourself more or less than the others, in my view. I don't see a dep as a band member, but rather an accessory. It's like running a delivery service and 5 of your drivers got food poisoning last night at the work's night out... so I would look to hire 5 new drivers just for a couple of days. The contract with them is independent and has nothing to do with what I paid my regular drivers. Because it's a temporary contract, it comes with a different set of circumstances/conditions and that may affect the wages. The same with a dep. A dep may have to work harder at shorter notice, and being a "non-member" will not reap any further benefits from the gig (other than being asked again, if needed, I suppose)... at the same time, he doesn't need to worry about a lot of the band business. His job is simply to be able to play what he was asked, and do it when requested. In a way he is an 'emergency service' so if he ends up making a bit more I don't see it as a problem. If he ends up making less than the rest, it's purely down to him: presumably he thought X amount was sufficiently attractive. Either way, no harm done. Personallly I don't need to know whether band Z will get so many £££, and this much goes to the BL as a 'finder's fee' and this much is deducted this way or another... tell me what you're offering, and if it works for me, I'll say yes. Or ask me how much I'd want, and I'll tell you. Most bands in my circle just divide things equally, but not all operate that way and that's ok as long as both parts are clear about what what each will provide before committing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
three Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 Same plus refreshments, especially if short notice and significant travel involved Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1488537386' post='3249732'] yeah, but the dep doesn't have to put up with all the band drama crap [/quote] A lot of bands won't tolerate bad non-existent productive drama. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cat Burrito Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I think it depends on the band. A covers band of mine I would expect the dep to take the same as the rest of us but my originals band we usually pay a bit more on the rare occasions we need someone because they have had to learn a set of original material. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dood Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1488553504' post='3249989'] It's not really about valuing yourself more or less than the others, in my view. I don't see a dep as a band member, but rather an accessory. It's like running a delivery service and 5 of your drivers got food poisoning last night at the work's night out... so I would look to hire 5 new drivers just for a couple of days. The contract with them is independent and has nothing to do with what I paid my regular drivers. Because it's a temporary contract, it comes with a different set of circumstances/conditions and that may affect the wages. The same with a dep. A dep may have to work harder at shorter notice, and being a "non-member" will not reap any further benefits from the gig (other than being asked again, if needed, I suppose)... at the same time, he doesn't need to worry about a lot of the band business. His job is simply to be able to play what he was asked, and do it when requested. In a way he is an 'emergency service' so if he ends up making a bit more I don't see it as a problem. If he ends up making less than the rest, it's purely down to him: presumably he thought X amount was sufficiently attractive. Either way, no harm done. [/quote] Agree again. I did actually write a long paragraph about contractors vs full-time staff and the different sets of circumstances, but I chose to write something short and snappy instead. This is kinda what I'm thinking though. But then, I'm a professional musician. Playing bass is my day job, my career and what feeds all four mouths in my family, keeps my car on the road,the bills paid and my mortgage covered. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adrenochrome Posted March 3, 2017 Share Posted March 3, 2017 I almost always get the same (pub level gigs). I once got slightly more when the rest of a band I helped a couple of times did a birthday cheap for a mate of theirs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1488574422' post='3250269'] We'll agree to differ then. Demanding or expecting a larger fee than the regular guy/girl certainly seems to be valuing yourself more to me. All of the bands in my circle divide things equally. I wouldn't play with the ones that don't. Each to their own I guess. It's the music that counts. [/quote] it's true, we may still disagree and that's fine... but I am still having trouble with the 'valuing' yourself more than another person. It's a different job being a dep or a regular band member, so I don't think the pay is necessarily going to always be the same. I would certainly never ask for "what your guy gets PLUS £x"... but each job has a minimum price below which is not worth taking for a given person, and this minimum price will vary with circumstances. Sometimes that minimum price is higher than what their regular one would get... but it's a one off "save our gig" situation. Similarly, if they offer me £z and I talk to myself and think "yeah, that'll do"... if it turns out that the band made more, I might go "dang, I could have asked for more" for a minute, but hey, I did it for an amount I thought reasonable, so it's all good and I would not think they value me less. I don't get that way of thinking. Tell me: When you get offered a dep job, and they say "we can give you £xxx plus transport and food", do you ask them "ok, but first tell me how much the other guys are getting?". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mcnach Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 [quote name='Burrito' timestamp='1488577017' post='3250307'] I think it depends on the band. A covers band of mine I would expect the dep to take the same as the rest of us but my originals band we usually pay a bit more on the rare occasions we need someone because they have had to learn a set of original material. [/quote] That's pretty much my experience too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AndyBob09 Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 I used to play in a band where everyone was on unequal pay. Drummer/manager took around £350 Singer/Keys took around £280 I took £250 then took a 7 month leave from the band and came back to £230 because of my lack of loyalty - Despite the fact my whole leave was planned and many deps were in place. We got a new guitarist that came in at £210, but would go up as he put in his years of service. Deps got £180. It's worth saying that Drummer, Singer and myself were all founding members. I left after 5 years. The band is still on the go and hell knows what the pay situation is like these days. When the drummer depped off his gigs, I dealt with the money and stuff. I always felt awkward handing the dep drummer less money if people were counting it in front of him. Personally any time I dep, I ask what the fee is and have always accepted. I'd like to think I'm paid equally, however, having been in the situation I was in before, it wouldn't phase me if I was paid unequally. I've accepted my fee and that's that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 [quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1488574422' post='3250269'] We'll agree to differ then. Demanding or expecting a larger fee than the regular guy/girl certainly seems to be valuing yourself more to me. All of the bands in my circle divide things equally. I wouldn't play with the ones that don't. Each to their own I guess. It's the music that counts. [/quote] When the work is equal that's fine, however the DEP has more work to do than the other regular members. More work means more money.IMO Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 [quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1488553504' post='3249989'] Most bands in my circle just divide things equally, but not all operate that way and that's ok as long as both parts are clear about what what each will provide before committing.[/quote] Same with me and these are bands making about $500.00 for a 4 peice. It's not enough money to quibble over. Now, if your playing 3k gigs, that's a different story. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chris_b Posted March 4, 2017 Share Posted March 4, 2017 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1488669037' post='3250989'] . . . . . however the DEP has more work to do than the other regular members. . . [/quote] That's not actually true. The difference is the dep has to do the same thing in a lot less time. With most of the deps I do I'm familiar with many of the numbers and getting my head around new numbers, new arrangements and old numbers in different keys is a great musical education. Also playing with a new drummer is always a great experience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barking Spiders Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 Over the last 5 years I've only done dep work on occasions and expect to be paid the same as everyone else, particularly as I mostly play with function bands doing funk, disco, soul, reggae and latin covers where nearly all the tunes have upfront basslines Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dand666 Posted March 6, 2017 Share Posted March 6, 2017 [quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1488671403' post='3251000'] That's not actually true. The difference is the dep has to do the same thing in a lot less time. With most of the deps I do I'm familiar with many of the numbers and getting my head around new numbers, new arrangements and old numbers in different keys is a great musical education. Also playing with a new drummer is always a great experience. [/quote] This. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Jaywalker Posted March 7, 2017 Share Posted March 7, 2017 (edited) . Edited November 28, 2017 by The Jaywalker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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