Charging other bass players to use my rig when im not using it.

[dave_bass5]

The set up i have with one of my bands is that because i don't drive i go with the drummer. I brought a LMII and 1210R just for this band and this means we can also get the guitarist in the car. All very cosy but it works.
Although i have regular gigs with them they also use two other regular bass players (both drive).
There has been a few times where the other bass player don't want to drive to the gig and so have gone in one of the two cars but this means they have been using my rig.
Now, while i don't really mind and they do ask most of the time i think its getting a more and more regular thing.

I feel i should charge either them or the band a nominal fee. I was thinking maybe £5 per gig. I feel this is not bad value for a rig that cost over £1000. The bass player will be on £150 per gig (thats what all three of us get per gig)

Any thoughts?

Edited October 16, 2008 by dave_bass5

[cheddatom]

Amps (in my experience) are prone to accidents, rather than wear and tear. IE it's a lot more likely that your amp will die if someone drops it, than it is that your amp will die from lots of use. It doesn't sound like you need the money? If it were me, i'd have them sign something to guarantee they'll replace it if it breaks on their watch, or if you have insurance to guarantee that they'll pay the excess.

If I was getting paid £150 per gig, i'd probably buy my own compact rig!

[Noisyjon]

Sometimes the simple rule of thumb in the equipment hire market is 1 per cent of the purchase cost per hire.
i.e. £2,000 rig = £20 per day.

Any good?

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='307997' date='Oct 16 2008, 04:44 PM']Amps (in my experience) are prone to accidents, rather than wear and tear. IE it's a lot more likely that your amp will die if someone drops it, than it is that your amp will die from lots of use. It doesn't sound like you need the money? If it were me, i'd have them sign something to guarantee they'll replace it if it breaks on their watch, or if you have insurance to guarantee that they'll pay the excess.

If I was getting paid £150 per gig, i'd probably buy my own compact rig![/quote]

I think they feel that why buy a rig when there is one there already.
No, i dont need the money but i think its a principle thing here as well and to be honest i would rather no one used it. That way there is no extra wear and tear, and no bad feelings if it does break down but i also want to help the band out.
We do blocks of gigs mostly so one will maybe do 4 or 5 in a row but maybe nothing for another month or two. Its really only this band that we need a small rig and the other two do have rigs that arent that big, it just involves them driving to a gig. If they are saving on petrol and driving then they can afford to pay me for the convenience IMHO
I know the band will pay for it to be fixed if it gets broken when im not using it but that wouldn't help with the fact that i dont have another rig i can use with this band if i turn up to the gig and its not working. What happens if someone does drop it at the end of the night (for example). I turn up next gig, its not working but they can all swear it was at the last gig. Thats when it could get messy.
But if i do get something for the use of it then at least if it does break down ive got something put by to pay for the repairs myself.

I know a couple of people who own PA's and when they aren't gigging with it they hire it out, thats how i look on this situation.

I don't want to sound nasty or bitter and while ive never met these guys yet we do get on on the phone so i don't have a problem with them personally, i just feel a bit taken advantage of.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='jonthebass' post='308005' date='Oct 16 2008, 04:56 PM']Sometimes the simple rule of thumb in the equipment hire market is 1 per cent of the purchase cost per hire.
i.e. £2,000 rig = £20 per day.

Any good?[/quote]

Thats sounds about right so i think £5 is very fair. If it also means they stop using it because of the charge all the better.
I also have an Ashdown MAG combo at the drummer house. I was thinking of just saying no but they can use the Ashdown for free.

[odub]

Hmm,

It stops the amp being a thing borrowed from a friend helping them out, and turns it into hire equipment.

I know I drive differently in a hire car than to a borrowed car.

Extreme example I know, but if they're paying, it becomes a little bit theirs. It absolves them if something does go wrong from feeling guilty - because they paid up already right?

[~tl]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='308011' date='Oct 16 2008, 05:01 PM']What happens if someone does drop it at the end of the night (for example). I turn up next gig, its not working but they can all swear it was at the last gig. Thats when it could get messy.[/quote]
Just make sure you check it when it's returned to you, the next day at the latest. I don't see a problem with charging a small amount for the hire. It's your equipment after all, not the band's!

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='odub' post='308014' date='Oct 16 2008, 05:07 PM']Hmm,

It stops the amp being a thing borrowed from a friend helping them out, and turns it into hire equipment.

I know I drive differently in a hire car than to a borrowed car.

Extreme example I know, but if they're paying, it becomes a little bit theirs. It absolves them if something does go wrong from feeling guilty - because they paid up already right?[/quote]

I agree but i also think that it might be hard to prove it was damaged by them anyway. I think they are pretty honest guys so they would tell me if it did break down while they were using it and offer to pay towards getting it fixed anyway. Certainly the band would have to help out as without that rig it means i cant gig with them and that would cause them more problems so i know it will all be pretty friendly stuff.

Im not in a position to check it out next day. The drummer lives quite a way form me and we both work full time so it wouldn't be until i next gig with that band that i would be able to try it out.

[wulf]

It could get messy. Do you pay for petrol when you get a lift? If someone else doesn't like your solution, you might start finding other costs coming your way! Saying no to people using the main rig but yes to the Ashdown might be a better solution.

Wulf

[KennysFord]

stuff that dood,its your rig.lend it out if someones in a fix but there's a limit.What are going to do with £20 never mind a fiver.
tekkin' the the proverbial that is.!!

[dave_bass5]

wulf. No, i dont pay petrol. The drummer gets it on his firms expenses as its a company car. They pay us £150 and most expenses so we take home more or less £150.
This is fair as its sometimes a two day trip and we dont get any extra.

kenny, I agree, it started out as a favour but its now a regular thing. The money is nt the issue but then i haven't asked for anything yet and no one has offered. Taking the proverbial is how i feel at the moment although they dont mean to. I just feel a bit funny about saying no.

I think the Ashdown idea is a good one and i may mention it this weekend.

[Muppet]

It's not your job to provide gear for other bass players. Everyone is responsible for providing their own gear to do the job so I think they're taking advantage of your good nature and your situation. If they can't provide their own gear, or more to the point can't be arsed to use it, then your band shouldn't be using them.

If it were me I'd say "You get paid the same as me, so you should provide your own gear, just as I do."

If you want to rent it, then rent it properly and charge proper rates, rather than a nominal amount. £5 is nothing if it means not having to drive and not having to lug your own gear around actually not worrying too much as it's not your gear.

[KennysFord]

You've now kinda got yourself in the place where its been ok (taking it for granted)and now its not...(taking the p*ss).You've made a major investment there,it will be hard telling the guys but you ought to....and soon.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Muppet' post='308033' date='Oct 16 2008, 05:33 PM']It's not your job to provide gear for other bass players. Everyone is responsible for providing their own gear to do the job so I think they're taking advantage of your good nature and your situation. If they can't provide their own gear, or more to the point can't be arsed to use it, then your band shouldn't be using them.

If it were me I'd say "You get paid the same as me, so you should provide your own gear, just as I do."

If you want to rent it, then rent it properly and charge proper rates, rather than a nominal amount. £5 is nothing if it means not having to drive and not having to lug your own gear around actually not worrying too much as it's not your gear.[/quote]

That a very good post and ill use that when i talk to them on Sat, especially the bit about us all being on the same money.
I know they will be fine with it anyway. The band do appreciate how I'm helping them out and have said in the past i should say no if its a problem.
I just hadn't realised how often its getting until today.

Kenny, yes, your right. I might not want to say something but i have to.

Cheers guys.

Edited October 16, 2008 by dave_bass5

[OldGit]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='308012' date='Oct 16 2008, 05:02 PM']I was thinking of just saying no but they can use the Ashdown for free.[/quote]

I'd do that.
Say no to the LMK but don't scupper the neat transport arrangement.
If it was an Ashdown I'd think you were being a tad sensitive but a hifi rig is different, especially as theres a viable aternative.
I wonder if they'd rather drive and use their own gear than use the Ashdown ...

And ... It may be your band's fault rather than the bass players.
When the band called for a dep bass they may have said "and there's an amp in the car if you prefer to travel with us and use that I'm sure it will be OK" and it's stuck.

I'd certainly say yes if that was offered.

I doubt very much if the dep bassists asked if there was a rig provided. That's just not normal.

Edited October 16, 2008 by OldGit

[CPBass]

May seem a little harsh but after a number of bad experiences by being too hospitable and being given back damaged goods I dont allow anyone to play through my gear. Not even support bands, it doesnt please everyone but I paid too much money for someone else to damage my baby. I dont ask to borrow gear for gigs, ive had to hire amps before now when the rig needs attention but I belive that to be in this game we need to be self sufficient. Its just professional.

Clear black and white policy. if they want to sound good enough to get paid then take responsibility for making that possible.

just my view on it.

C

Edited October 17, 2008 by Voodoosnake

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='OldGit' post='308179' date='Oct 16 2008, 09:31 PM']I'd do that.
Say no to the LMK but don't scupper the neat transport arrangement.
If it was an Ashdown I'd think you were being a tad sensitive but a hifi rig is different, especially as theres a viable aternative.
I wonder if they'd rather drive and use their own gear than use the Ashdown ...

And ... It may be your band's fault rather than the bass players.
When the band called for a dep bass they may have said "and there's an amp in the car if you prefer to travel with us and use that I'm sure it will be OK" and it's stuck.

I'd certainly say yes if that was offered.

I doubt very much if the dep bassists asked if there was a rig provided. That's just not normal.[/quote]

All makes Sense.
Just to clarify. The band don't have a bass player. The bass players are all deps. There are three of us that do it regularly. The band are out every weekend of the year so there is plenty of work for us all. I'm probably the most reliable and although my band is also busy i don't let them down as much as we don't get last min gigs in. The other two are playing full time so they do what ever pays the most.
Yes, it made life easy the first time they asked as the bass player's car was out of action that time so i didn't mind. The second time was a long haul so they wanted to take just two cars. But i think the bass players have got used to not having to drive and me lending the rig to them. The band do ask and make a big deal of the favour I'm doing them but i get the feeling now its expected more by the bass players than the band now.

Im pretty sure if it comes to driving or using the Ashdown they will still take the Ashdown most of the time. Its a good combo and enough for most of the gigs anyway.
Most of the gigs are to no more than 120 people and we do keep the levles down on stage so i know its not going ot get a thrashing (and slapping is banned)

Edited October 16, 2008 by dave_bass5

[markytbass]

I agree with most of the comments, I wouldn't/won't let anyone use my rig. Even if someone else gets it repaired or pays for the repair it would be out of use for a time and would that mean no gigs?(not that it has or will get broken)

[Doddy]

Why not take your gear out of the drummers car when you get dropped off at home?
That way whoever is on the gig has to take their own rig.

[OldGit]

[quote name='Doddy' post='308265' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:30 PM']Why not take your gear out of the drummers car when you get dropped off at home?
That way whoever is on the gig has to take their own rig.[/quote]

You could certainly take the LMK home without breaking your back .. Take it for a "service" between a few gigs when the other bassists are playing .. Then you can introduce the new rule when you "get it back" from being seviced ...

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='Doddy' post='308265' date='Oct 16 2008, 11:30 PM']Why not take your gear out of the drummers car when you get dropped off at home?
That way whoever is on the gig has to take their own rig.[/quote]

Because i always get dropped off by the guitarist once we unload the drummers car at his house.
But more importantly i always have to get the train up to the drummers house on gig days. Thats the reason i got the rig as i couldn't transport my other rig between bands.

[mike257]

I stopped letting people use my rig, after my old Trace Elliot stack came back broke on 3 separate occasions. Since I got the Ampeg, I've barely let anybody touch it. I'll let bands run through the cabs, but the rack gets the lid on after I soundcheck, and doesn't get opened until I'm on stage.

It upsets people sometimes, but I worked hard to save for that gear, and based on past experience, I can't afford to be getting it fixed all the time. If you've paid a significant amount of money for a professional standard piece of equipment, then other people should respect that. I'd never turn up to a gig without everything I needed to play the show, I don't see why other people think it's ok.

You're not there as a charity. If it's a favour for a mate every once in a while, it's different, but I wouldn't let people I've never met go running off with my expensive gear every weekend.

Just my tuppence worth mind. I'm probably ranting because I've just got in from the pub.

[LukeFRC]

isnt the lmk the wee portable one? why not just buy a bag for it and carry it home with you? just treat the head like you do your bass.
if it was your bass you wouldn't be lending it out in the same way.

[dave_bass5]

[quote name='LukeFRC' post='308308' date='Oct 17 2008, 12:50 AM']isnt the lmk the wee portable one? why not just buy a bag for it and carry it home with you? just treat the head like you do your bass.
if it was your bass you wouldn't be lending it out in the same way.[/quote]

That would make sense but i have it in a bag with all my other gear so its quite bulky. Plus i have a large suit bag and my bass to carry on and off the train(s) so its easier to leave i there.
If i say no they wont use it, i trust them enough to leave it with them.


Mike, no, what you say (what you all say) is how im starting to feel.

[OldGit]

[quote name='dave_bass5' post='308340' date='Oct 17 2008, 08:14 AM']That would make sense but i have it in a bag with all my other gear so its quite bulky. Plus i have a large suit bag and my bass to carry on and off the train(s) so its easier to leave i there.
If i say no they wont use it, i trust them enough to leave it with them.


Mike, no, what you say (what you all say) is how im starting to feel.[/quote]


Want me to tell the band for you?