New to creating own bass lines - need advice... Thanks!

[danonearth]

Hi all,

I’m new to creating my own bass lines or patterns (as opposed to just reading tab, sheet music, etc.) so that I can just hopefully look at the chords of a song and play along to it… mostly jazz, latin, etc.

I know I will eventually discover the answer to this myself through practice and experience, but I was wondering if anyone can help shed some light on it now for me and point me in the right direction…

So, I am of two minds on how to approach ‘creating’ a bass line or pattern:

1) Use the root note of the chord as the ‘psuedo’ root of a new scale and play from there for each chord

For example, play C on the A string as if it were the root of a C major scale pattern and play 1-3-5, or 1-4-5, etc.Then, slide up to E on the A string and make the same major scale pattern there, again playing 1-3-5, or 1-4-5, etc. using the major scale fingering from that point on the fretboard… then change to G on the D string and re-create a major scale pattern there and play 1-3-5, 1-4-5, etc. (Note: I understand all the theory (for example, you are not really going to play a new major scale beginning on the root of a new chord - songs don’t change keys every chord! but it is the ‘methodology’ or approach that I am interested in of changing hand positions up and down the fretboard as compared to example #2 below…)

2) Keep the same scale shape on the fretboard, and try to ‘envision’ if I am playing the root, third, fourth, faith, sixth, etc. of the scale and derive a pattern from there

For example, play C on the A string as if it were the root of a C major scale pattern and play 1-3-5, or 1-4-5, etc. keeping my hand in that position, so that when the chord changes, I simply change my fingering pattern to play 1-3-5, 4-6-8, 5-7-1(octave), etc. in that same position on the fretboard

To me, the difference between the two is whether I think within the same scale pattern (example #2) or simply move my hand position around the fretboard and create a new 'pseudo' scale pattern from the root note of the chord being played at that moment (again, keeping in mind that I am not actually changing keys, just the approach to playing off a new ‘root’ note of the chord with a different finger position)

I hope this makes sense - if anyone can please help me decide which is the better method to pursue? Or is it purely a personal choice?

Thanks!

cheers,
Dan

[ambient]

Personally, at least to start with I'd do as you suggest regarding starting on the root note of each chord. Then add other chord tones to make the line more interesting.

It's simple, and you won't go far wrong using chord tones.

For example, if you had this chord progression to play over - Dm7/G7/C.

Then your note choices would be from D F A C/G B D F/C E G B.

Edited October 4, 2016 by ambient

[Norris]

If you're talking about the difference between transposing a pattern along the neck or across the strings, well... both. They are both completely valid - whatever is more comfortable or better sounding or suits the situation.

A good grounding in scales and arpeggios is always useful for knowing which notes are likely to fit

[Phil Starr]

Hi Dan, I think others more qualified than me will come along but you may be starting from the wrong place. A bass line needs to be both rhythmic and melodic.You can make a great bass line with just the root but you have to nail the rhythm. You can then start just adding one or two notes like the fifth and seventh, maybe only once or twice in a bar. If you jumps straight to a 1-3-5 progression for each bar it is going to sound like every song is 50's rock'n'roll.

You mention Latin where the rhythm is crucial and baselines often use a lot of root/fifth/octave. A lot of jazz is going to use a walking bass line which contains a lot of scale tones but the critical part is the last beat of the bar which is a leading note. It is a note belonging to the chord you are moving to not the one you are in. It anticipates the chord change in other words. This all oversimplifies but what I am trying to say is that each style has its own set of rules and you need to be aware of them.

Here's a good start at what you can do with root and ifth https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VZUSEHkLS8Q

[Dad3353]

+1 for the above, put more succinctly than I would have done. The stuff about chord tones is the one, especially in the more 'jazz' styles. What to do..? Get some tracks that you like, in the style you're working on, and listen to them, then transcribe them. The way the bass is adding to the overall music should become evident, over time. Practise scales etc if you want, but I wouldn't advise trying to apply scales to music in such a mathematical way; that's not what it's about. Listening, feeling the root and the melody, helping it all along both rhythmically and harmonically... Leave shapes alone, too. Your ears, in time, will guide your fingers, not the shapes.
Just my tuppence-worth; hope it helps.

Edited October 4, 2016 by Dad3353

[ambient]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1475624443' post='3147528']
+1 for the above, put more succinctly than I would have done. The stuff about chord tones is the one, especially in the more 'jazz' styles. What to do..? Get some tracks that you like, in the style you're working on, and listen to them, then transcribe them. The way the bass is adding to the overall music should become evident, over time. Practise scales etc if you want, but I wouldn't advise trying to apply scales to music in such a mathematical way; that's not what it's about. Listening, feeling the root and the melody, helping it all along both rhythmically and harmonically... Leave shapes alone, too. Your ears, in time, will guide your fingers, not the shapes.
Just my tuppence-worth; hope it helps.
[/quote]

Excellent advice. Especially regarding shapes. I said on another thread the other day, I think it may have been asking about playing a 5 string bass. Anyway, too many players rely on shapes, play notes, not shapes.

[danonearth]

Great! Thanks, everyone... I was just trying to get an idea of what is the preferred practice - staying in one place in a 'scale' shape, or moving around the fretboard following the 'roots' of each chord - it seems like just a personal preference?

I do also play what I 'hear', but know that bad habits are hard to break, so I just wanted to get started with a good 'technique'

Thanks again!

cheers,
Dan

[BigRedX]

Sing what you want. The work out how to play what you have just sung.

[xgsjx]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1475651456' post='3147577']
Sing what you want. The work out how to play what you have just sung.
[/quote]
+1


Unless you sing like me. Then you'd need a fretless bass so you can get the right out of tune note that you can slide to. & in your head you hear different pitches, but the reality is, each note is a few cents different from the last.

I tend to work out the scale that the song uses & take it from there. The root note will be in there somewhere, but not always the first note or the most used one either.

[mikel]

You could try ditching the music and the tab sheets and listen to songs you would like to play. Listen to the music and what the bass is playing and use trial and error to work out yourself what the guy is playing. This will improve your ear, and ability to change things on the fly. Your ears are the most important tool you have when it comes to jamming with others and making up your own bass lines.

[Twigman]

think of the line in your head and then play it...I never worry whether what the notes are, just that they fit and match the 'tune' in my head

[danonearth]

Thanks again, everyone... [color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I was just wondering if people prefer to re-position their hand so it is placed on the new root of the chord (as if you were starting a new scale), or keep their hand in the original scale position and always play from there? So, in a sense do you play within a scale, or move as in chords on a guitar?[/font][/color]

[ambient]

[quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1475873971' post='3149497']
Thanks again, everyone... [color=#141414]I was just wondering if people prefer to re-position their hand so it is placed on the new root of the chord (as if you were starting a new scale), or keep their hand in the original scale position and always play from there? So, in a sense do you play within a scale, or move as in chords on a guitar?[/color]
[/quote]

It would depend on what was coming up afterwards whether I'd shift position. If I'm given a chord chart/lead sheet to play that's new to me, I can usually get through anyway, but I like to quickly scan through it first of all, given the time. Most notes can be reached from pretty much one position.

[oldbass]

[quote name='mikel' timestamp='1475661543' post='3147675']
You could try ditching the music and the tab sheets and listen to songs you would like to play. Listen to the music and what the bass is playing and use trial and error to work out yourself what the guy is playing. This will improve your ear, and ability to change things on the fly. Your ears are the most important tool you have when it comes to jamming with others and making up your own bass lines.
[/quote]

This. Plus, for inspiration listen to the bass line on any Motown tune. James Jamerson is the greatest exponent of note placement and note quality there is.

[Davo-London]

I understand your question.

If you are a starter player then your suggestion makes sense. It will be easier to remember the fingering f you move your hand to the new "root".

However, to develop your skill, it may also be useful to leave your left hand over the first four frets and find every note there. This is where my LH ends up as a default position if I am unfamiliar with the music or it's very fast!

Davo

[51m0n]

Watch this in full....

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=q4JWqK6r6N4

[Steve Woodcock]

[quote name='danonearth' timestamp='1475873971' post='3149497']
[color=#141414][font=verdana, geneva, lucida,]I was just wondering if people prefer to re-position their hand so it is placed on the new root of the chord (as if you were starting a new scale), or keep their hand in the original scale position and always play from there? So, in a sense do you play within a scale, or move as in chords on a guitar?[/font][/color]
[/quote]

Both approaches are valid, the choice is usually decided by one of two factors:

[b]Tone [/b]- note that a C played at the eighth fret on the E string sounds different to a C played on the third fret of the A string, even though they are the same pitch and octave. The C on the E string is warmer whilst the C on the A string has less bass and is more defined - which sound suits your line best?

[b]Ease of playing [/b]- the more you jump around the neck the more disjointed your playing could sound as you will inevitably cut notes short in order to make the leap to the next position. However, what about the notes that come next in your line? Are they too low or too high to be played in your current position? I like to keep my hand relaxed at all times so will generally favour a position shift over stretching to reach a note.

[danonearth]

Awesome! Thanks, everyone

cheers,
Dan