I suck at figuring out songs by ear. Any advice guys?

[Horizontalste]

I think it helps to understand Harmony a little bit (as bassists we generally don't).
For me the process goes like this, listen to the recordings lots, pick out the key by ear then work out the chords using a keyboard, then once you know the key & the chords you'll have 90% of the notes you need for the bass line (provided you know a little theory).
It all boils down to how good your ears are, a couple of years ago I decided I would learn everything from the recordings & I've stuck to it, it's thoroughly satisfying & as an added bonus what I learn this way sticks, no forgetting.

[AndrewJordan]

I'm glad some people get what I am saying! Theory, technique and experience are all very fine things to have but some people don't have the time to put into getting that far and a little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. e.g. many years ago(37 in fact) I achieved a C.S.E.(anyone remember those) Grade one in music theory. This meant I had a reaonable knoweldge of common time signatures, keys/scales, harmony and could read dots on the page. I had zero knowledge of modes(didn't even know they existed) or any other "exotic" musical things. The result of this was I would try and learn tunes and if I thought I heard something that didn't fit within the "rules" as I understood them then I convinced myself that I was hearing things wrong and changed what I was playing to try and fit the rules as I knew them. You can imagine the results and the frustration. It took a while to learn that there was a whole world of other stuff out there that I didn't understand. So, I learned to disregard what little theory I knew and just trust my ears with much happier results.

Of course, over the years I have picked up a bit more theory and understanding but I rarely think about it when I am learning tunes. For me the object of playing is to have fun with other band members and the audience and whatever gets you to that point is fine. I do work quite hard to learn the lines to the best of my ability but in the end it really does just boil down to listening............ and moving my fingers until it sounds right

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1467883326' post='3086910']
Although it sounds flippant, there's some truth in the 'moving your fingers around' method. What happens is that we quickly (hopefully!) learn that moving the fingers from A to B produces interval X... then when we next hear interval X, we know that we need to move our fingers from A to B. It's all about ear-training, and relating what we hear to fretboard. Theory helps enormously, but raw familiarity goes a long way.
[/quote]

Despite being a proponent of learning theory, I agree with this, learning to play exactly what you hear is a key skill, interpretation and analysis can come later. The message I'm trying to get across is that yes learning theory is great but you shouldn't be put off having a go at working stuff out by ear until youve learned it.

Also with respect to tabs, youtube vids, isolated bass track etc - use these things to check your work or as a last resort and not as a substitute for working them out yourself. I say that because the most valuable part of working things out by ear is the process (forging an ear-fingerboard connection) not the end product (being able to play the song).

Edited July 7, 2016 by bassman7755

[blue]

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1467882449' post='3086897']


Seriously ?

Sounds a bit hit and miss, and quite time consuming to me,
[/quote]

Agreed

Blue

[sharkboy]

[quote name='zbd1960' timestamp='1467757134' post='3086054']

It helps to learn to understand intervals and what they sound like. Start with the basics - octave, fifth and fourth (ascending and descending).
[/quote]

One of the best music lessons I had at school all those years ago was on intervals and how to recognise them by remembering which songs use them at the start (eg minor 2nd=Jaws theme, major 6th=My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean - amazing what you remember after 35 years!) There's a good site here with more examples: http://www.madelinesalocks.com/MusicalIntervalsTutor/listenpg.html

[HazBeen]

Anytune Pro+, good head phones and practise

[Bilbo]

Just keep trying.

A lot.

[AndrewJordan]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467917748' post='3087340']
Agreed

Blue
[/quote]

A few questions for you Blue. How do you learn songs without listening? How do you play them without moving your fingers around? Do you always get it right first time?

[blue]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467922298' post='3087401']


A few questions for you Blue. How do you learn songs without listening? How do you play them without moving your fingers around? Do you always get it right first time?
[/quote]

When I'm learning a new song I use the best YouTube tutorial I can find. It's pretty strategic. I'm not searching around for notes.

I never get anything right the first time.

Blue

[gjones]

Stick to Status Quo.

[luckydog]

I think that truly playing by ear, that is playing basslines directly you hear in yer head, is mostly about recognising intervals and chord structures in music. Eventually becoming informed guesses refined by trial and error. It must vary between people, though most players can sing and repeat lines so it must be up there somewhere for all of us I think.

Maybe development of it depends on how one learns intervals on the first instruments one plays ?

Though most musicians can sing melodies, I don't think that many consciously think of intervals, singing just comes naturally. Except in The Sound of Music (!) I think the end point of playing by ear is that one doesn't even think 'that's a VI', you just do it. Like dancing, it's better not to think about yer feet, and eventually that is natural.

Interesting I think.

LD

[Horizontalste]

Yep, great post ^

[lowdown]

First two notes of The Star Wars theme are Root (I) and Fifth (V), Same for the ET theme.
Somewhere over the Rainbow, Root (I) Octave (VIII), Jaws, no need to mention that interval, unless you are tone death of course,
and so on for other tunes.

For me, singing tunes I was familiar with and [i]consciously[/i] learning and knowing their intervals, was key to quickly training my ear (when I was younger).
No short cuts, it's just a matter of putting in the work, same as learning an instrument.

Edited July 8, 2016 by lowdown

[AndrewJordan]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467930286' post='3087474']
When I'm learning a new song I use the best YouTube tutorial I can find. It's pretty strategic. I'm not searching around for notes.

I never get anything right the first time.

Blue
[/quote]

Well, that's pretty much what I do too but If it's something a bit obscure that your trying to learn(as is the case with the OP) it can be very difficult if not impossible to find a youtube vid and if you do then sifting through them to find the best/most accurate one can be a very hit and miss and time consuming excersise in itself (I speak from experience). The "searching for notes" bit tends to happen more when you are just starting out. As others have said, this in itself can be a very valuable lesson and as time goes on you learn to recognise what you are hearing until the searching becomes a thing of the past(hopefully).

One camp may say "Get lessons, lock yourself in your room for a few years, get your chops down, learn the theory, practice, practice, practice and then you wil be ready to fly" another may say "Just listen and then move your fingers around until it sounds right then get out and play some music". Either is a perfectly valid aproach but I think you know which camp I belong to

[lowdown]

[quote name='sharkboy' timestamp='1467917887' post='3087343']
One of the best music lessons I had at school all those years ago was on intervals and how to recognise them by remembering which songs use them at the start (eg minor 2nd=Jaws theme, major 6th=My Bonnie Lies Over The Ocean - amazing what you remember after 35 years!) There's a good site here with more examples: [url="http://www.madelinesalocks.com/MusicalIntervalsTutor/listenpg.html"]http://www.madelines...r/listenpg.html[/url]
[/quote]

I really should read through a thread before I post.
I posted something similar to you this morning. (#63).

[Hobbayne]

I think Scott has the right approach in his learning by ear lesson.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMM7G5PXCvw

[blue]

[quote name='AndrewJordan' timestamp='1467970260' post='3087612']


Well, that's pretty much what I do too but If it's something a bit obscure that your trying to learn(as is the case with the OP) it can be very difficult if not impossible to find a youtube vid and if you do then sifting through them to find the best/most accurate one can be a very hit and miss and time consuming excersise in itself (I speak from experience). The "searching for notes" bit tends to happen more when you are just starting out. As others have said, this in itself can be a very valuable lesson and as time goes on you learn to recognise what you are hearing until the searching becomes a thing of the past(hopefully).

One camp may say "Get lessons, lock yourself in your room for a few years, get your chops down, learn the theory, practice, practice, practice and then you wil be ready to fly" another may say "Just listen and then move your fingers around until it sounds right then get out and play some music". Either is a perfectly valid aproach but I think you know which camp I belong to
[/quote]

I guess, I mean who really knows. I don't even know which members are out there on the front lines sweating and gigging every week And who are the bedroom guys.

For this issue, I would say the bedroom noodler is just as credible as the gigging guys.

Blue

[luckydog]

[quote name='Hobbayne' timestamp='1467971142' post='3087627']
I think Scott has the right approach in his learning by ear lesson.
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DMM7G5PXCvw[/media]
[/quote]Thanks, that's a great lesson. Quite a few jazzers use that method, it helps to define what you're playing and get it from out of your head as a line into what you physically play. Learning to double your voice with the instrument, and some never give up vocalising esp improvisations. It all starts in yer head as a melody.

Maybe much depends what internal narrative goes on inside yer head when playing basslines ? Could be the melody of the bassline itself, could be key/scale positions, could be names of notes, could be frt/string/finger positions, could be muscle memory for runs. I suspect it varies between players, and we all use some of them some of the time.

LD

[AndrewJordan]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1467981976' post='3087784']
I guess, I mean who really knows. I don't even know which members are out there on the front lines sweating and gigging every week And who are the bedroom guys.

For this issue, I would say the bedroom noodler is just as credible as the gigging guys.

Blue
[/quote]

Very true!

Personally, I don't gig as much as I used to or would like to but probably as much as I can realistically fit in. Our band practices once a week and gigs once, sometimes twice a month. The gigs locally are scarce so we travel quite a bit for gigs which usually involves an overnight stay(sleeping bags on pub floors kinda thing) and we all have day jobs.

[GarethFlatlands]

I guess it's not much of a problem these days but I've found some older songs have had their speed adjusted, altering the pitch and making it really hard to figure out by ear. A couple of Bowie songs gave me trouble for that reason.

As for the moving your fingers around until you find the right note approach, it has it's uses. If there's no tab or chord charts, I've used it a lot to figure out the first notes of a riff or sequence and then taken it from there, using theory and experience to figure the rest out. If you're doing it for every note, then I'd advise refining your approach but it's a little churlish to dismiss it unless you've got perfect pitch, especially if you're going in blind.

[M@23]

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1467786511' post='3086148']
You need to get used to have intervals. Play major and minor scales over and over so you get used to the sound. Then play the intervals to get used to the sound. I.e root to second, root to third, root to fourth etc. when you get used to these you should be able to hear what distance notes move when listening to something.
[/quote]

Too advice. That's how I learnt too. Even when I'm away from my bass, I'll try listen out for this. Before that, listen to if it's major/minor and then try find the root note and work from there, if it's a fairly simple line.

[Cat Burrito]

I went for ages not being able to do this and the answer was simple, practice. Sometimes if the bass if buried a little, I find the chords on a guitar and then work the bass from there.

There is no feeling like the first time you finally crack picking stuff out for yourself - it's like a graduation.

[FarFromTheTrees]

Well this post certainly blew up. I didn't expect that many responses haha.

There's some really helpful advice here so thanks to all who posted. I'll keep practicing!