Bass Shapes (jazz, bass, singlecut, completely original)

[EBS_freak]

OK, I've been thinking... (dangerous I know)

What shapes do you like to see from a bass manufacturer?

It seems that everybody is doing jazz bass clones, Overwater, Lakland, Sadowsky, Shuker, Alleva Coppola, Nordy, Clover, Sei, Lowend etc - just to name a few. My question is, is this what people want? Obviously, there are different strokes for different folks. Is the ultimate bass shape a jazz bass? Why do people always plump to offer a jazz bass clone and not say, a precision bass clone. (OK, I know that people do manufacture P bass clones and I know somebody is going to say something about Shuker 5 strings Ps, JJ Burnel etc)

Singlecuts seem quite a marmite thing. They are a love hate thing. Do you think (and I'm sitting on the fence here) that there is a certain amount of snobbery surrounding these instruments? Loads of top players use them - do you (if you use one) use one because you think that there is an advantage in using them (whether it be playability, tone etc)? Do you use them because all top players use them? If you don't - what are your feelings towards them? Do you not use one because of their looks? Do you think that they are pretentious? Do you think that they are plain ugly? Do you think that single cuts = more expensive?

...or do you prefer something completely original. Things which spring to my head are some of Sei's creations, Jaydee, Steinbergers, Status, the GB Rumour...

This thread isn't meant to start a flame war, I'm just interested in what people's perceptions of instruments shapes are.

Edited September 23, 2008 by EBS_freak

[Waldo]

I like the Jazz body, they look great and they sit very nicely and comfortably on you.

Of course someone will come along and say 'I hate jazzes, they look sh*t and are really uncomfortable' but hey, each to their own

[BigBeefChief]

I like a Jazz shape but I probably wouldn't buy a non-Fender Jazz.

Its Fenders design, let them keep it. There's so many body shapes you could come up with (no doubt comfier than a Jazz), it seems crazy (lazy?) to just keep copying Fender.

I also quite like the quirky look of Rics and Burns Bisons. I tend to like larger body shapes, as I'm quite tall and small bodies look crap and 80's on me.

Not into anything overly "rounded" like most Warwicks. They seem to small and have the appearence of drift wood with 6ft necks.

Also, I don't mind hollow body shapes, my only issue with them is that their pickups usually aren't well positioned to rest your thumb on.

Love Thunderbirds as well.

Can't stand Metal style basses (overly pointy, "I'm still p1ssed off with my parents at 32" type things"). They always remind me of the long haired, snakebite drinkers who want to bore you with tales of Space Marines and Citadel Miniatures.

[peted]

I prefer small-bodied basses, but I also like singlecuts (I don't think that's a mutually exclusive specification). The shape has to have very smooth organic lines and look very natural and flowing.

I like the Warwick Thumb and Streamer(/Spector NS) body shapes, but think that the new stuff from Warwick has gone in the wrong direction to my tastes. I *really* like the Sei body shapes and the latest tweaks Jon has made to the Shuker designs.

EDIT: BigBeefCheif - I've just realised that I'm the polar opposite of you!

Edited September 23, 2008 by peted

[Waldo]

[quote name='BigBeefChief' post='289822' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:00 PM']I like a Jazz shape but I probably wouldn't buy a non-Fender Jazz.

Its Fenders design, let them keep it. There's so many body shapes you could come up with (no doubt comfier than a Jazz), it seems crazy (lazy?) to just keep copying Fender.

I also quite like the quirky look of Rics and Burns Bisons. I tend to like larger body shapes, as I'm quite tall and small bodies look crap and 80's on me.

Not into anything overly "rounded" like most Warwicks. They seem to small and have the appearence of drift wood with 6ft necks.

Also, I don't mind hollow body shapes, my only issue with them is that their pickups usually aren't well positioned to rest your thumb on.

Love Thunderbirds as well.
[i]
Can't stand Metal style basses (overly pointy, "I'm still p1ssed off with my parents at 32" type things"). They always remind me of the long haired, snakebite drinkers who [b]want to bore you with tales of Space Marines and Citadel Miniatures[/b].[/i][/quote]

That makes me think of Rimmers Risk stories in Red Dwarf:

'Anyway, to cut a long story short I threw a five and a four which
beat his three and a two, another double six followed by a double four
and a double five. After he'd thrown a three and a two I threw a six
and a three. I jotted it down in my Risk campaign book. I always used to do
that so I could replay my moments of glory over a glass of brandy in
the sleeping quarters. I ask you, what better way is there to spend a
Saturday night? '



If there's one bass shape I really dislike, it would have to be the singlecut!

Edited September 23, 2008 by Waldo

[odub]

I've been thinking about this a lot as of late.

I like the fender shapes, I believe the clone bodies can offer better quality, better value for money etc, but there’s always this thing in the back of my mind that it’s still a copy (even if it’s a better version).

For me, what I’d really like to see is someone coming up with a really decent bass, but with individual looks and sounds but still works. Warwicks, Rickenbackers, Thunderbirds (though the same thing applies for borrowed guitar shapes – ignore my ASATs tele shape), singlecuts, the lakland basic shape, a lot of the hollowbodies, MMs

There must be tonnes more shapes around than Jazz/Precision

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='odub' post='289834' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:06 PM']There must be tonnes more shapes around than Jazz/Precision[/quote]

There are... but I don't think shapes have developed much from what came from the 60s... apart from completely radical ones and the single cuts.

Basically, everything is derived from strat shapes, tele shapes, les paul (single cut and double cut), flying v ,sg and the ric. Maybe Warwick-esque designs can be defined as original... but then, even Warwick nicked their shape from Spector... it would seem to me that coming up with original shapes is quite difficult.. and I think that there is something in our minds which expects shapes to conform to those original deisngs.

[odub]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='289855' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:17 PM']There are... but I don't think shapes have developed much from what came from the 60s... apart from completely radical ones and the single cuts.

Basically, everything is derived from strat shapes, tele shapes, les paul (single cut and double cut), flying v ,sg and the ric. Maybe Warwick-esque designs can be defined as original... but then, even Warwick nicked their shape from Spector... it would seem to me that coming up with original shapes is quite difficult.. and I think that there is something in our minds which expects shapes to conform to those original deisngs.[/quote]

Yeah I agree, Deep inside when poeple think of bass they're likley to think of one of the "big" shapes.

Still though, I hanker for either the original or something different but just as good.

[Dubs]

The shape that does everything for me (looks cool and feels really comfortable) has to be the Warwick incarnation of the Ned Steinberg body shape (Streamer). I’ve played a few Spectors with pretty much an identical body shape and it just didn’t feel right. That could have been to do with the neck though, I dunno. Either way, the shape of the Streamer is ideal for me and I personally think they also look the mutts nuts

There are other body shapes that I think do look great (Warwick Thumb, Fender P & J, F Bass BN4, Modulus Flea bass…) but I think the Ned Steinberg shape does it all.

I don’t like single cut designs though.

[thisnameistaken]

I'd like to see more small-bodied basses like my Thumb bass. I'm pretty scrawny, so if I strap on a Fender/Musicman/G&L-style "traditional" bass it's like wearing an XXL T-shirt. More small basses for us scrawny folk, please, manufacturers.

[OldGit]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='289729' date='Sep 23 2008, 10:40 AM']I know somebody is going to say something about Shuker 5 strings Ps, JJ Burnel etc)[/quote]

My lips are sealed





Actually they aren't

There are shapes I like the look of but just can't get on with - Thumbs, Warwicks with that phallic top horn (snigger) T birds, Flying Vs, Les Pauls, Steinberger cricket bats, and then there are the body shapes that work for me: P bass, jazz bass, and my Shuker modern but I'm not a traditionalist, as I also like playing Dood's singlecut 7 string, the Wood n Tronics Zoid and the Smiths ...
It's largely down to the individual characteristics feel and balance of the instrument but I know that, when I strap on a P bass, things are going to feel more or less right, straight off.

There is a very good reason why the Jazz and P bass shapes have survived whereas the big semi-acoustics and things like the Burns Bison that were around at the same time have been sidelined into niches, and that's because they work pretty well for most people.

Edited September 23, 2008 by OldGit

[neepheid]

It seems to me that it's evolution rather than revolution. I've designed a body for an upcoming project - I appropriated a Warmoth design and made some alterations in CAD - ended up with something like a Les Paul Money bass with a more offset waist without intending it.

It's hard to come up with something original that people don't go "ugh, what the hell is that?"

[ZMech]

If I'm going to spend the kind of money usually involved in a decent bass, I don't really want something that looks like everything else i.e. fender basses. At V fest I think I counted only 3 basses that weren't fenders, or perhaps just fender shaped, 2 of which were musicmans.

Oh yes, and singlecuts that go halfway up the neck just look a bit silly to me.

[Stylon Pilson]

With the exception of electric guitars and electric basses, what other musical instruments have significant stylistic variation within the species? You never hear a trumpet player complaining about the fact that all trumpets look the same.

S.P.

[ZMech]

[quote name='stylonpilson' post='289899' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:52 PM']With the exception of electric guitars and electric basses, what other musical instruments have significant stylistic variation within the species? You never hear a trumpet player complaining about the fact that all trumpets look the same.

S.P.[/quote]

I once saw a trumpeter, I think it was Eric Darius, who said he was fed up with not being able to have an individual sax in the was guitarists do their guitars, so he had someone do a zebra paintjob on his sax. Was pretty cool. I think guitars are different from most other instruments, in that the shape of the body doesn't have much acoustical effect, whereas you can't really start tinkering with the shape of the tubes in your trumpet.

[Jase]

Fender shape for me, purely for comfort and it's been a huge while since I played any other make, acoustic basses I find too uncomfortable, had a Charvel once, although it was more or less Fender shaped, still not right for me. It's being familiar with an instrument that matters to me, sounds stupid but I have to have raised pole pices on my pickups, not for sound but for my thumb position, I need a P guard too because the screw just behind the E string is also an anchor point for me. Bolt on is another one for me, interchangeable necks marvelous idea!

[OldGit]

[quote name='stylonpilson' post='289899' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:52 PM']With the exception of electric guitars and electric basses, what other musical instruments have significant stylistic variation within the species? You never hear a trumpet player complaining about the fact that all trumpets look the same.

S.P.[/quote]

Actually ... Saxes and trumpets do have different models and shapes and subtle differences in style and mechanisms .. a little less obvious than bass body shapes, and loads of brass and woodwind instruments come in colours, zebra stripes etc etc these days.
Pink baritone anyone?



And, of course, there's this

Edited September 23, 2008 by OldGit

[johnnylager]

Big, heavy, 'normal' looking bass for me please - think J, P, MM, G&L. Just needs a cut-out for me belly & a chamfer for me right arm, though the MM I use has neither, so what do I know?

Can't get on with the look of a single-cut, they just remind me of acoustics.

Would consider doing time for a GB Rumour, but that's about as rad as I would ever get. This week anyway.

[4000]

I think a lot of it has to do with what you get used to playing and the individual ergonomics, although obviously your own sense of aesthetics come into this. I was never a great fan of the Fender look at the start because everyone except the bass players I like (with the exception of Phil Lynott and Gary Thain) played them. The players I liked played Rics, and I loved what they looked like (I really like 50s and 60s American cars and that's what they remind me of) so that started me off. Of course once I got used to playing them most other basses, particularly Fender, felt funny; I have a nightmare ergonomically with the majority of Fenders.

Always liked the looks of the Alembic Series basses, and of course when I first played one the neck felt similar to a Ric, so that was that for me as well. Also I'm not a huge fan of the bolt-on aesthetic anyway, practical as it may be; from a design perspective it's not really very complete. I'm also not really a fan of small bodied basses because I have terrible trouble with them ergonomically; the comfiest bass for my right hand is actually my Triple Omega Alembic (I'm 6ft). The downside is because I have back problems big bodied basses generally weigh more and I could do with as light a bass as possible, so it's a constant juggling act to get something comfortable.

Regarding the Sei jazz, I know Martin was very reluctant to make them at first but was gradually talked into it by a client. Martin is very keen on keeping his own shapes, and I completely understand that. I prefer designs that I feel really make a statement and are not particularly derivative, but many like the Fender shape and want something familiar, hence the popularity of the Fender and Fender clone. One thing I'm not big on is fancy-wood Fenders. The 2 aesthetics just don't match IMO; same goes for fancy-wood Rics. I like a fancy wood bass to look very organic. I love the Alembic almost-Art Nouveau style.

[EBS_freak]

[quote name='stylonpilson' post='289899' date='Sep 23 2008, 12:52 PM']With the exception of electric guitars and electric basses, what other musical instruments have significant stylistic variation within the species? You never hear a trumpet player complaining about the fact that all trumpets look the same.

S.P.[/quote]

pipe organs

[Waldo]

[quote name='EBS_freak' post='289991' date='Sep 23 2008, 02:23 PM']pipe organs[/quote]

I'll have you know that I've got a custom made pipe organ on the way, with synth bass pedals, LEDs and everything!

Edited September 23, 2008 by Waldo

[Deep Thought]

I'm a lover of classic design-not just in basses but in cars, architecture, clothing, interiors, furniture etc. That's why the Fender shapes do it for me-it also just so happens that the Precision sound suits the straightforward, effects-free type of music I play, and the wide neck suits my playing style. To me nothing beats the Precision shape with that big old all-in-a line headstock (owned a Jazz and didn't get on with the offset waisted body). Oddly enough I'm not keen on the Telebass/Mike Dirnt earlier style Precision-dunno why. That, as far as aesthetics is concerned, is the way it goes IMHO. Sometimes you just like something or you don't and you can't necessarily explain why. I used to dislike Rickenbackers, but have recently begun to appreciate their classic design as well.
I find it very hard to like virtually any modern bass shape-particularly not the smooth, slippery Warwick 'erection' type of thing, and definitely not the Bongo, which I think is the most hideous thing ever to have four strings (or five), and I don't care how great it sounds. Again as the Bongo shape is somewhat Art Deco-ish I ought to like it, but I don't. I also think a lot of modern basses that do have fairly attractive body shapes have ugly headstocks-afraid I think Shuker is a prime candidate here-nice, streamlined body shape with a squat, misshapen headstock, similar, as I've said more than once, to a squid's tentacle. The World of musical instrument design is a prime example of how vastly people's tastes differ-what is to one person a thing of beauty is to another a horrible monstrosity. Vive le Difference!

[lemmywinks]

I love Jazz basses but wouldn't buy a Fender, purely because i'd want more value for money! Also haven't got on with scratchplates as i need more room for my thumb (i've got fingers like pigs' t*ts).

For me the most desirable body shape is either a Tobias or a Warwick Fortress. Different and exotic but not OTT.

Would never have a P, if i'm still playing when i'm 60 i might fancy one but who knows!

[tauzero]

The offset shape of the Jazz is a pretty good conceptual solution to the problem of neck dive, as it has a long top horn and weight distributed to maximise the leverage to balance the neck. The Precision solution is simply to be heavy.

However, rather than just using the concept and coming up with their own variant of the shape, a large number of high-end builders simply copy the Jazz shape, and then stick a Jazz control plate on. They show little originality of thought (or perhaps they're catering to a market that shows little originality of thought). The original thinkers address the balance problem by doing something about the basis of the problem, going to a 2+2 headstock (NS, Warwick), lightening it as well (Kubicki, Bass Collection) or dispensing with it altogether (Steinberger, Status).

I keep trying to like singlecuts but the aesthetics jar with me. Which is a bit odd, because I've always liked the looks of Les Pauls.

[mathewsanchez]

My favourite shapes at the moment are the Status S1 (because I recently got one and love it), Fender Jazz (prefer it to the precision)and Musicman Stingray (prefer it to the sterling or bongo).