12stringbassist Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I don't think it hurts to have your bass amp checked over / serviced every couple of years and get a sticker while you're at it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1457047043' post='2994921'] OK, I'll take the risk. I'd like to make an observation, though - IME the people who go on about the importance of PAT testing the most are the people who get paid to do the tests. [/quote] That's fine even though I'm recommending you test your earth continuity for free, yourself? Also all the bands I've done I've charged about twenty quid and a cup of tea including my fuel and time to get to the place agreed to do it,the stickers and certs,and the earth repaired, less than minimum wage for a fully qualified electrician, does that sound like I'm in it for the cash? Edited March 4, 2016 by sunburstjazz1967 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1457047043' post='2994921'] OK, I'll take the risk. I'd like to make an observation, though - IME the people who go on about the importance of PAT testing the most are the people who get paid to do the tests. [/quote] Yes. Those and the people who Investigate deaths of people who've been electrocuted or died in fires caused by faulty electrical equipment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephantgrey Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 Talked to my step dad about this (he's an electrician), he told me you should only PAT test whatever power leads your using. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1457013622' post='2994461'] I've been asked once, so I bought some stickers off eBay. It's a joke. [/quote] PAT testing has no legal requirement or a legal standard - it is a test of safety as deemed appropriate by the people using the equipment. To quote: [quote] [color=#111111][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3]The law simply requires an employer to ensure that their electrical equipment is maintained in order to prevent danger. It does not say how this should be done or how often. Employers should take a risk-based approach, considering the type of equipment and what it is being used for[/size][/font][/color] [color=#111111][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3][/quote][/size][/font][/color] [color=#111111][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color][quote] [color=#101010]The legislation deems that any competent person can perform it by using a PAT instrument or tester. [/color] [color=#101010]...[/color] [color=#101010]According to PAT testing legislation, a competent person is someone who has experience or knowledge of being able to check and test appliances for safety purposes[/color] [color=#101010][/quote][/color] [color=#101010]I have a degree in electronics, therefore I deem myself a competent person with knowledge to be able to check and test appliances, and therefore I can do my own PAT testing and produce my own certificates[/color] [font=HelveticaNeue, Helvetica-Neue,][color=#101010][size=3]Remember, it is like an MOT As well - all you are saying is that AT THE TIME OF THE TEST it was in a safe state - ie that if it subsequently fails the next day / week/month then it is not the responsibility of the PAT tester, and you can show that you took reasonable steps towards maintaining the safety of your equipment (by PAT testing it every year )[/size][/color][/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PaulWarning Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='EmmettC' timestamp='1457048737' post='2994930'] I assume everyone who is out gigging had public liability insurance, you get it free with MU membership, the insurance won't cover you if you're equipment isn't PAT tested. It's a big risk going out without insurance, there's such a large risk of someone getting injured because of your gear, particularly during get-outs. [/quote]no, it's yet another cost and layer of bureaucracy to bands that just play at the pub a couple of times a month, it's a hobby not a profession for most people Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1457080720' post='2995038'] [color=#101010]I have a degree in electronics....[/color] [/quote] And, I'm guessing, access to a PAT testing machine! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1457080720' post='2995038'] PAT testing has no legal requirement or a legal standard - it is a test of safety as deemed appropriate by the people using the equipment. To quote: [/size][/font][/color] [color=#111111][font=Arial, sans-serif][size=3] [/size][/font][/color][/color] [color=#101010]I have a degree in electronics, therefore I deem myself a competent person with knowledge to be able to check and test appliances, and therefore I can do my own PAT testing and produce my own certificates[/color] [font=HelveticaNeue, Helvetica-Neue,][color=#101010][size=3]Remember, it is like an MOT As well - all you are saying is that AT THE TIME OF THE TEST it was in a safe state - ie that if it subsequently fails the next day / week/month then it is not the responsibility of the PAT tester, and you can show that you took reasonable steps towards maintaining the safety of your equipment (by PAT testing it every year )[/size][/color][/font] [/quote] Yes competent and qualified mean different things within the electrical regulations. There are moves to remove 'competent' and require people to be qualified. Certainly there is a difficulty in proving competency without testing at which point you may as well qualify the person. I'd be wary of saying a degree in electrical engineering makes you competent. It certainly makes you qualified. There's a lot of basic electrical practical knowledge gained after you qualify. Personally I keep the two very separate. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I guess my issue with the whole thing is that the whole scheme is fuzzy, misunderstood, and open to exploitation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt P Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 we had all of our gear tested a while back as a hotel had warned us beforehand that they'd want to see the cert, it wasn't that expensive and our guitarist had all of his tools checked at the same time (he's self employed with a whole pile of mains tools) I do the visual check anyway as it's a force of habit, I've confiscated a few leads rom church as they've ben dangerous, no strain relief on one cable and an extension lead that was only 2 core! (which explained why the eci light was flashing on the trace head) Matt Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='elephantgrey' timestamp='1457079683' post='2995022'] Talked to my step dad about this (he's an electrician), he told me you should only PAT test whatever power leads your using. [/quote] If he's testing class 1 equipment like our amps then how does he know the metal work on the amp is earthed to the earth on the plug top? Ok don't flash test the electronics but a continuity test between the earth pin on the socket on the amp and the exposed metal is a MUST! Any amp technicians here to substantiate my claim? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1457088072' post='2995125'] If he's testing class 1 equipment like our amps then how does he know the metal work on the amp is earthed to the earth on the plug top? Ok don't flash test the electronics but a continuity test between the earth pin on the socket on the amp and the exposed metal is a MUST! Any amp technicians here to substantiate my claim? [/quote] I'm not an amp tech but when we PAT test PCs we do. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted March 4, 2016 Author Share Posted March 4, 2016 Interesting comments. I see my amp and lead has been tested in the past with another owner. I contacted rehearsal rooms in the area they didn't require it at all although one recommended a visual inspection myself. I think I will get it done at some point if the amp is going to be also used outside rehearsal. More for the fact some jobs worth comes along and kicks off. I do believe old valve amps should be done and fully checked over before use. Ive had old amps and always cut out the so called death cap as they can fail open. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 I'm also not an amp tech, but I do build and tinker with valve amps as a hobby. A simple check of earth continuity between the chassis, input jack and mains plug is the first thing I do before plugging in anything I've worked on or picked up secondhand. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elephantgrey Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='sunburstjazz1967' timestamp='1457088072' post='2995125'] If he's testing class 1 equipment like our amps then how does he know the metal work on the amp is earthed to the earth on the plug top? Ok don't flash test the electronics but a continuity test between the earth pin on the socket on the amp and the exposed metal is a MUST! Any amp technicians here to substantiate my claim? [/quote] Well yeah, but if I asked him to do that, he tell me to get a multimeter and do it myself. That kind of basic maintenance doesn't really require an electrician. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 No but it sure is included in a class 1 PAT test is my point! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1457089466' post='2995153'] I'm also not an amp tech, but I do build and tinker with valve amps as a hobby. A simple check of earth continuity between the chassis, input jack and mains plug is the first thing I do before plugging in anything I've worked on or picked up secondhand. [/quote] Bingo, or save the effort and buy some stickers off eBay,lol. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1457088778' post='2995143'] I'm not an amp tech but when we PAT test PCs we do. [/quote] I've decided its the best way with all the expensive electronics around, I just use my combi testers between the iec socket and a few screws etc or leave the lead in and test between the earth pin and the metal casings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 (edited) There are people that take advice and people that don't. Each to their own. My equipment is tested (by myself i should add) and is safe and i can certificate it and label it if needed. The serial numbers of my test equipment being regularly calibrated are also available. If somebody asked me to quickly check their amp i reckon it'd cost em a pint of Old n Filthy best bitter. Edited March 4, 2016 by Number6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1457085245' post='2995087'] And, I'm guessing, access to a PAT testing machine! [/quote] Well, oscilloscopes, multimeters etc, and the ability to use them. (I repair my own amps etc) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gapiro Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='TimR' timestamp='1457087145' post='2995108'] There are moves to remove 'competent' and require people to be qualified. Certainly there is a difficulty in proving competency without testing at which point you may as well qualify the person. [/quote] I'm not really suprised, it is a bit vague at the moment! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huge Hands Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1457093830' post='2995256'] Well, oscilloscopes, multimeters etc, and the ability to use them. (I repair my own amps etc) [/quote] Interesting. I'm no expert as I did a PAT testing training course about 14 years ago and then never carried out a single test again - don't you have to use the correct gear that can print out a report, or can you do it manually like that and it still be official? As I said, I'm not trying to fight with you or anything, I'm genuinely interested. I thought (back when I did it all those years ago) the PAT machine was part of the thing to stop anyone and anybody doing it - and why they were so expensive (at the time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1457093959' post='2995258'] I'm not really suprised, it is a bit vague at the moment! [/quote] The definitions are pretty solid, it's proving someone was/is competent before setting them to work that's the problem. Systems are more complicated and we're a lot hotter on safety than we used to be. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 [quote name='Huge Hands' timestamp='1457094680' post='2995276'] Interesting. I'm no expert as I did a PAT testing training course about 14 years ago and then never carried out a single test again - don't you have to use the correct gear that can print out a report, or can you do it manually like that and it still be official? As I said, I'm not trying to fight with you or anything, I'm genuinely interested. I thought (back when I did it all those years ago) the PAT machine was part of the thing to stop anyone and anybody doing it - and why they were so expensive (at the time). [/quote] AFAIK you can write it manually in a book. But you still need to do the resistance tests and get figures. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sunburstjazz1967 Posted March 4, 2016 Share Posted March 4, 2016 If you know what you are doing you can test using various separate meters, the insulation test is the one most average people won't have to hand that is contained in the combined pat tester. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.