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MrDaveTheBass

Ice Hockey Pucks

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If you're looking at ways of isolating your cabs (especially on boomy wooden stages), I've had great success using ice hockey pucks.

They're easy to chuck in a case or gig bag, and at £6 for 4, they're 10 times cheaper than one of them there Gramma Pads.

[url="http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skate-Hut-Ice-Hockey-Puck/dp/B0073UQTMI"]http://www.amazon.co.uk/Skate-Hut-Ice-Hockey-Puck/dp/B0073UQTMI[/url]

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Just hope your cabinet doesn't decide to do a dance.
Nice idea but hate to be fumbling around on a dark stage trying to find them each time.

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The pucks are made out of fairly sticky rubber, so if you anchor them under your cab's feet, the cab doesn't go anywhere. I must admit I've only tried them on level stages though.

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I suppose as far as placebos go they're cheap enough, but they're still placebos. I've never been able to find a single bit of objective data from any of the makers of either isolation or coupling devices (and you really should wonder why there are both) so I obtained my own. The results are posted here:
http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19112

BTW, since hockey pucks are a high density material if they did anything it would be to increase coupling to the stage, not reduce it.

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Interesting thought but it wouldn't work with my cab (It has wheels)

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1446728998' post='2901794']
I suppose as far as placebos go they're cheap enough, but they're still placebos. I've never been able to find a single bit of objective data from any of the makers of either isolation or coupling devices (and you really should wonder why there are both) so I obtained my own. The results are posted here:
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19112"]http://billfitzmauri...hp?f=10&t=19112[/url]

BTW, since hockey pucks are a high density material if they did anything it would be to increase coupling to the stage, not reduce it.
[/quote]

Very interesting. Thank you.

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[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1446729887' post='2901807']
Very interesting. Thank you.
[/quote]

Yes interesting, placebo in affect here, love my Gramma pad. Admitedly it just sits under the cab at rehearsal most of the time :)

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I think that any type of base (not just gramma pad) with such a low height won't do anything to isolate the cab. There's a bit of height needed to "decouple the bass from the ground", i use an amp stand and lift my cab about 1 metre from the ground, this works!
I only see one use for those isolation foams, it's when you play on a hollow and flimsy stage and dial enough lows on the amp to make the entire stage vibrate (vribation of the cab being transmited to the stage) - even then i think that the cab will still be too close to the ground to prevent boominess. IMO

Edited by Ghost_Bass

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[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1446736503' post='2901885']
I think that any type of base (not just gramma pad) with such a low height won't do anything to isolate the cab. There's a bit of height needed to "decouple the bass from the ground", i use an amp stand and lift my cab about 1 metre from the ground, this works!
[/quote]What you're referring to is acoustic decoupling, which is a real phenomenon. Full boundary loading occurs when the speaker baffle is less than 1/4 wavelength from the boundary. At 1 meter 1/4 wavelength is 85Hz, so you'll lose boundary loading above that, which can be effective taming boom, as that typically occurs in the 80-160Hz octave.
[quote]I only see one use for those isolation foams, it's when you play on a hollow and flimsy stage and dial enough lows on the amp to make the entire stage vibrate (vribation of the cab being transmited to the stage) [/quote] A cab that flimsy is defective. Even in that case all that's required to 'decouple' the cab is rubber feet. If what decoupling devices claim is true then a drummers sticks left atop his kick drum or the snare wires beneath the snare drum wouldn't vibrate when you hit a note, since the cab isn't even remotely close to being in contact with the drum heads. Stages vibrate for the same reason as drum heads do, in sympathy to the sound that the speaker creates, not any vibrating of the cab walls.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1446728998' post='2901794']
I suppose as far as placebos go they're cheap enough, but they're still placebos. I've never been able to find a single bit of objective data from any of the makers of either isolation or coupling devices (and you really should wonder why there are both) so I obtained my own. The results are posted here:
[url="http://billfitzmaurice.info/forum/viewtopic.php?f=10&t=19112"]http://billfitzmauri...hp?f=10&t=19112[/url]

BTW, since hockey pucks are a high density material if they did anything it would be to increase coupling to the stage, not reduce it.
[/quote]

Thanks for the link. It looks like I'm going to have to sell my cab and buy myself some skates and a hockey stick instead! ;)

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Just buy a crate of beer, 2 birds with one stone.
Even the classiest places I have played use them to get the amps up :)

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I regularly play several venues that have hollow platform stages. Marketing guff aside, the gramma pad makes a very noticeable difference. If its a placebo, then its a convincing one and I'm glad I have it. The puck idea sounds well worth a try as a cheaper / smaller solution - but I know what we'd be doing with them during the drum soundcheck, and a broken window is only a matter of time. :)

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Most puck purchasers seem to use them in conjunction with car jacks, but for jacking up cars, not cabs.

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Slight thread derailment, but rather than start a new one - I'm getting some problems at high levels with my Laney Nexus bass head seemingly vibrating in sympathy with the matching 1x15" cab it sits on a producing a low-level crackling noise with the very lowest notes.

I'm aware that it's probably a dodgy joint on a circuit board somewhere but there's a LOT of board real estate in there; do you think that isolating head from cab as muc as is possible (Gramma pad, hockey pucks, rubber feet, whatever) might help? When I can afford to and don't need the head for a bit I'm planning to get it into Laney for a service, but as a stop-gap?

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[quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1447344307' post='2906910']
I'm getting some problems at high levels with my Laney Nexus bass head seemingly vibrating in sympathy with the matching 1x15" cab it sits on a producing a low-level crackling noise with the very lowest notes.
[/quote]While vibrating cab panels won't cause a stage to vibrate, that would be the tail wagging the dog, they can cause a head atop them to vibrate. All you need to fix that is a piece of this, cut to size:
http://www.homedepot.com/p/TrafficMASTER-Black-24-in-x-36-in-Anti-Fatigue-Vinyl-Foam-Commercial-Mat-60-571-0900-20000300/202015909

UK sources for something similar must exist.
That said, vibrating panels suck away energy that should be going out to the audience as sound. Even a single brace connecting the middles of opposing panels will halve the energy lost.

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Just bought a couple of hockey pucks thanks to this thread - always struggled with the handle getting in the way on top of a cab when resting a micro amp on it. One puck either side of the handle and the problem will be solved. The joys of BC!

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Very helpful, thanks Bill!

EDIT : one of these should do it, right? [url="http://www.duramat.co.uk/checker-plate.shtml"]http://www.duramat.co.uk/checker-plate.shtml[/url]

Edited by Ian Savage

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[quote name='Ian Savage' timestamp='1447346462' post='2906942']
one of these should do it, right? [url="http://www.duramat.co.uk/checker-plate.shtml"]http://www.duramat.c...ker-plate.shtml[/url]
[/quote]That may be of higher density than you want. Try kitchen supply stores for a resilient mat. Another option is a yoga mat.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1446749203' post='2902077']
A cab that flimsy is defective. Even in that case all that's required to 'decouple' the cab is rubber feet. If what decoupling devices claim is true then a drummers sticks left atop his kick drum or the snare wires beneath the snare drum wouldn't vibrate when you hit a note, since the cab isn't even remotely close to being in contact with the drum heads. Stages vibrate for the same reason as drum heads do, in sympathy to the sound that the speaker creates, not any vibrating of the cab walls.
[/quote]
What your opinion on Hi Fi floorstanding speakers, particularly with regard to using spikes as opposed to rubber feet on suspended timber floors?

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[quote name='leroydiamond' timestamp='1447695402' post='2909586']
What your opinion on Hi Fi floorstanding speakers, particularly with regard to using spikes as opposed to rubber feet on suspended timber floors?
[/quote]The only benefit to spikes is that they will grip better than rubber feet on carpeted floors, which can reduce the tendency of a speaker being pushed at very high levels to 'dance' across the floor. All of the other claims made for them are hogwash.

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[quote name='Bill Fitzmaurice' timestamp='1447702902' post='2909679']
The only benefit to spikes is that they will grip better than rubber feet on carpeted floors, which can reduce the tendency of a speaker being pushed at very high levels to 'dance' across the floor. All of the other claims made for them are hogwash.
[/quote]
Interesting. The hi fi industry has a bit to answer for for sure, particularly the claims regarding expensive cables IMO. However the claim made by Pioneer regarding a particular pair of speakers is the best yet. The following is taken from their website

[color=inherit]"S-A4SPT[/color]

[color=#333333]Pure Malt Speakers[/color]


[color=#333333]These speakers have been crafted from 100-year-old white oak whiskey barrels. The wood has absorbed the whiskey, creating a distinctively smooth and rich acoustic quality, unlike that of any virgin wood."


:o[/color]

Edited by leroydiamond

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