Twincam Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Was browsing online and i end up checking out guitar amps. I come across all these awesome small watt, full valve combos and separates many of them are under 200 pound. So where is these cool things for us?. I seen a 15w ashdown valve head that was £299 just for the head. Ok so i realise that by the nature of bass amplification some components are more expensive. But im pretty sure a small watt, all valve bass combo can also be built for under 200 pound. Im surprised Thomann don't do one im pretty sure it would sell well. In fact i might email them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 Mm, the problem is that with bass gear you're up against the laws of physics. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1417631363' post='2622484'] Mm, the problem is that with bass gear you're up against the laws of physics. [/quote] what he said.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 For a head..? What's the most dastardly of these laws, then..? [size=4] [/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Billy Apple Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1417631363' post='2622484'] Mm, the problem is that with bass gear you're up against the laws of physics. [/quote] I see. Can you explain them please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) [quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1417632623' post='2622505'] I see. Can you explain them please? [/quote] Ahem. As I see it you need more power and better drivers for bass guitar, to handle the lower frequencies and make them audible. That's why a decent valve bass combo like an Ashdown LB-30 isn't £200. Edited December 3, 2014 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) I thought the subject was heads..? Did I miss summit..? Anyway, are bass speakers so much more expensive in the low power range (we're talking low watts, just the same...). Edited December 3, 2014 by Dad3353 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1417633144' post='2622518'] I thought the subject was heads..? Did I miss summit..? [/quote] [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417630378' post='2622469'] But im pretty sure a small watt, all valve bass combo can also be built for under 200 pound. [/quote] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah i still can't see why if they can build a all valve small watt guitar combo or head alone for that matter why they can't build one for bass for a low price. Of course they would be small 10 or so watt suitable for home use only. And i know some parts of a bass amp are indeed more expensive but still see no reason at all one can't be mass manufactured. We are talking a few pounds more for the components maybe a little more for the speaker if that. And many of the little guitar amps get pretty good reviews. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1417632616' post='2622504'] For a head..? What's the most dastardly of these laws, then..? [/quote] For 15W, as quoted by the OP, don't think there is one! But having just built one (2 x 6V6) , the bits were over £200. Now I have to make a box for it. We do need Thomann on the case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HowieBass Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I remember reading that our perception of volume varies by audio frequency such that you need a lot more power to achieve the same apparent volume between bass and guitar so a low wattage bass combo isn't going to match the same wattage guitar combo - I guess that when you factor in the heavier duty speaker and a bigger power stage (more/larger valves?) then you'd exceed the £200 limit pretty quickly? The key thing here though is your assumption of mass production involved - a low wattage bass valve combo has less flexibility than its guitar equivalent and probably less appeal meaning the production volumes couldn't be that large. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You can play your bass through a normal stereo given the right pre amp and connections. Just won't be very loud. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 A re-issue or clone of the Watkins Dominator, maybe, or the Fender Bassman 20..? Not for arenas, of course, but for bedroom practice. Why would one want to keep up with a guitarist with one..? There are better solutions for doing that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='HowieBass' timestamp='1417633999' post='2622533'] I remember reading that our perception of volume varies by audio frequency such that you need a lot more power to achieve the same apparent volume between bass and guitar so a low wattage bass combo isn't going to match the same wattage guitar combo - I guess that when you factor in the heavier duty speaker and a bigger power stage (more/larger valves?) then you'd exceed the £200 limit pretty quickly? The key thing here though is your assumption of mass production involved - a low wattage bass valve combo has less flexibility than its guitar equivalent and probably less appeal meaning the production volumes couldn't be that large. [/quote] Fletcher-Munsun curves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pfretrock Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417630378' post='2622469'] Im surprised Thomann don't do one im pretty sure it would sell well. In fact i might email them. [/quote] Good luck, I asked them to sell some 32" scale basses - still waiting Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 The reason nobody makes them is that there's no real market for them. Before anyone says it, half a dozen people on a bass forum doesn't equate to a market in commercial terms. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 Yeah as said they won't be very loud but theres plenty of solid state 10w/15w bass amps that are plenty loud enough for bedroom practice. And ive jammed with guitar players using a 25w solid state amp and we were loud enough. So im pretty sure 10 to 20 watt of valve power would be enough for house use, light jamming. These are not serious amps just a bit of fun. [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1417635536' post='2622571'] The reason nobody makes them is that there's no real market for them. Before anyone says it, half a dozen people on a bass forum doesn't equate to a market in commercial terms. [/quote] Yeah i get that, but say thomann sold one you then have a world wide audience for them. Plus since there isn't any at present. And people love that kinda thing im pretty sure there is a good market for them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taunton-hobbit Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 In a five(?) piece band there is ONE bass....unless it's all changed recently. Thus a band may (perhaps) buy five amp sets, only one of which will be specifically for bass.(That's your mass sales gone, before you start.) Mass Production in the real world, requires a demand for something in excess of two thousand units as a start point - for a bedroom bass amp? It's not happening.......... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 (edited) [quote name='taunton-hobbit' timestamp='1417636054' post='2622580'] In a five(?) piece band there is ONE bass....unless it's all changed recently. Thus a band may (perhaps) buy five amp sets, only one of which will be specifically for bass.(That's your mass sales gone, before you start.) Mass Production in the real world, requires a demand for something in excess of two thousand units as a start point - for a bedroom bass amp? It's not happening.......... [/quote] Every bass player has owned/gbought a small practice amp which is what im talking about basically. I know if i had a choice between a solid state one or valve one which one i would chose and which one 99% of bass players would want. So im pretty sure a mass made all valve low watt bass combo sold for say around 200 pound would be a huge seller. If mark bass can sell a small 30 watt or what ever mini mark for well over 300 pound im pretty sure you would have an audince for an all valve practice amp at 200. Plenty of people buy practice amps everyday. Edited December 3, 2014 by Twincam Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Musky Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417635925' post='2622578'] Yeah i get that, but say thomann sold one you then have a world wide audience for them. Plus since there isn't any at present. And people love that kinda thing im pretty sure there is a good market for them. [/quote] Thomann don't really have that much of a market in the States (the biggest market) - they're just not that competitive with domestic sellers, especially when you factor in shipping. Ashdown on the other hand do have a genuine worldwide market for the CTM15, but I'm not sure these are flying off the shelves. Things could be different for a pocket money priced combo, but I don't see that a decent one could be produced for the money you're talking about. Guitarists buy the low power combos because they can be wound up to saturation, distorting speaker and all, at reasonable volumes. Bassists tend to prefer a bit more headroom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417635925' post='2622578'] Yeah i get that, but say thomann sold one you then have a world wide audience for them. [/quote] But the same goes for any other manufacturer. [quote name='Twincam' timestamp='1417635925' post='2622578'] Plus since there isn't any at present. And people love that kinda thing im pretty sure there is a good market for them. [/quote] You have to look at this from a commercial perspective. If there [b]was[/b] indeed a market for it then the opportunity would have been grabbed. The fact that it hasn't means that either every amp manufacturer has missed the opportunity, or there's no demand for it. I know which one is most likely. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1417637880' post='2622605'] But the same goes for any other manufacturer. You have to look at this from a commercial perspective. If there [b]was[/b] indeed a market for it then the opportunity would have been grabbed. The fact that it hasn't means that either every amp manufacturer has missed the opportunity, or there's no demand for it. I know which one is most likely. [/quote] Yeah that they missed it big time! lol. You know reading some comments you would think that many really don't care about having more choice. Im not trying to change the world here im just asking for a few more cool toys for us bass players. Here is an example the vox night train combo recently sold for 199 this was on special offer but as an example i will used it. [url="http://s330.photobucket.com/user/Twincam2008/media/vox_zps9f45b544.jpg.html"][/url] Who would not want a bass version of something like this?. Its so cool. Ok to get it at a price point i suggested a big company like thomann could do them. But whoever did them they would sell. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 I suspect you're not following a career in marketing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Twincam Posted December 3, 2014 Author Share Posted December 3, 2014 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1417642415' post='2622660'] I suspect you're not following a career in marketing... [/quote] No im not but lets have a think about this one. There are probably more bass players who would pick a valve amp over a solid state one at the same price point. Many people buy small practice amps and as seen in guitar land there is a big market for the old style small valve combo's Many little solid state amps and large ones too have a tube emulation feature which for the most part get it wrong. Little modelling combo's have features that try emulate other all tube amps. So why not just make a small valve combo at a price point?. I don't expect this to be the greatest thing ever or to out sell all other amps but fact is its a viable option. I honestly am surprised at my fellow bass players lack of support for this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimR Posted December 3, 2014 Share Posted December 3, 2014 You can run a bass through a guitar amp at bedroom volumes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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