Tour expenses. Interesting read

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1417091202' post='2616963']
That's a fair amount of wages there for 4weeks work.

Consider they have no personal travel to pay over that time, no accommodation, the Best Western hotel will include a huge breakfast then they have another $20 a day for food on top. That's another $480 (after tax).

...........
When you're on the road there is very little to spend money on.
..............
[/quote]

The promoter in Europe will provide an evening meal, accomodation and breakfast so it is basically eating during the day on the way to the next gig. So depending what you must eat, $20/15eu seems ok on that basis.

As for verty little else to spend your money on..??? ,there are always ...er hookers as every European town will have a red light district and if you don't know the town and you want to go where there are always people, then you gravitate towards the red light district. It would help if you left your money back at the hotel.... but strangely this 'rule' goes out the window pretty quickly, for some people.

[Big_Stu]

[quote name='cybertect' timestamp='1417087637' post='2616902']For a UK comparison, Fish (of Marillion fame) put together a breakdown of costs of touring on his blog last year[/quote]

I used to drink with a mate in Fish's local boozer many years ago, up until my mate died suddenly & I coincidentally moved away not long after. Fish is a grand lad, takes stick & giggles very well, gives as good as he gets & not shy at getting his round in.

[TimR]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1417120642' post='2617319']


The promoter in Europe will provide an evening meal, accomodation and breakfast so it is basically eating during the day on the way to the next gig. So depending what you must eat, $20/15eu seems ok on that basis.

As for verty little else to spend your money on..??? ,there are always ...er hookers as every European town will have a red light district and if you don't know the town and you want to go where there are always people, then you gravitate towards the red light district. It would help if you left your money back at the hotel.... but strangely this 'rule' goes out the window pretty quickly, for some people.
[/quote]

We stuck to beer and strippers. But even strippers get boring after a while. 😳

[KevB]

I used to listen to his radio show on Planet rock and I must say he came across as someone I would happily have a pint with, very genuine.

[tauzero]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1417085549' post='2616871'] I'll admit I only briefly scanned through the article so I might be wrong but my understanding was that the actual tour lost about $12K but then was brought back into the black by associated internet business and other income spin off as a result of the tour, so I guess it is fair to put that business in with the whole deal. However this was for a single 1 month tour where they worked pretty much every day and ended up with a net 'salary' of about $2K each. Could you really do that [i]every[/i] month?[/quote]

From what they say, the internet business etc is a constant income stream while the tour was a one-off expense offset against that constant income. I think this is the old business model of promoting yourself by going on tour to sell albums rather than the new one of going on tour to make lots of money while the income from album sales drops.

[quote]At the end of the day, Pomplamoose is just fine: our patrons give us [b]$6,326 [/b]per video through our [url="http://www.patreon.com/pomplamoose"]Patreon page[/url]. We sell about [b]$5,000[/b] of music per month through iTunes and Loudr. After all of our expenses (yes, making music videos professionally is expensive), Nataly and I each draw a salary of about [b]$2,500[/b] per month from Pomplamoose. What’s left gets reinvested in the band or saved so that we don’t have to rack up $24,000 of credit card debt to book another tour.[/quote]

[Marvin]

The band may have been able to do things differently in order to have lost less/break even or maybe see a small profit. However, what it showed is what I've read elsewhere, touring is very expensive. The only people making money from tours are the ones who were successful under the old model. For new bands, this supposed new model of making anything from tours is a myth.

This becomes an even bigger problem if your fan base is predominantly abroad. The economics of touring abroad and be profitable for new bands....?

[bassintheface]

[quote name='KevB' timestamp='1417097389' post='2617063']
Now this really [i]is[/i] enlightening, one part stood out;

''The lottery win of a complete sell out tour would be around 45k profit. Those numbers aren’t coming up! Half that and I would be a happy man but that’s doubtful . If it did hit say 25k there’s still the bogey man of HMRC and corporation tax at 24% taking 6k and leaving 19k. It’s still a lot of money which I would be lucky to be able to make in this day and age and which I’d be exceedingly grateful for''

A respected and well known name who's been in the business 30 years would be very grateful making under £20K take home per year and that might not take any pension contributions into account. It's not the gravy train is it? I hope he stashed plenty away when he was making (hopefully) more money. You can see why some guys start selling off loads of high end gear when they retire from touring.
[/quote]

I found this very interesting as Shaun Rodgers (Fish's sound engineer) has been a friend of mine (and the band's) for years.
Also, Yatta is a friend of my Dad's (and how Shaun got the job in the 1st place).

He's done the sound for us on many many occasions and continues to do so when he's not away with Fish.
Shaun (and his van - an ex Tiger Tours sprinter btw) still needs to earn when Fish isn't touring so we try and use Shaun when we can.

It's crazy that he goes from months away touring europe, playing these gigs with Fish, then comes home and does work with us and a couple of other local bands to keep the wolf from the door.

When you look at the figures, in the big scheme of things, we're talking 'nothing' - £50 for a support band for example.
I 'want' £150 on top of that £50 to play a function gig as do the other lads in the band, plus our engineer fees.
Crazy!

I appreciate we're comparing original artists etc vs a corporate whore, but it's still playing music and providing entertainment and being out of the house for as long, if not longer.

You've really got to work seriously hard at the touring game to make anything like a living.
It certainly isn't the glamorous world people would have you believe and it's generally a struggle for most originals bands to keep 'doing it'.

Part of the reason I ultimately stopped the originals band thing and now only play in a function band - a wife, 2 kids and a mortgage and being fed up of being skint helped steer my decision.

Kudos to you guys still doing it though!!

[cybertect]

Somehow this all reminds me of an old Frank Zappa story

[quote]In 1969, George Wein, impresario of the Newport Jazz Festival, decided it would be a tremendous idea to put the Mothers of Invention on a jazz tour of the East Coast. We wound up working in a package with Kirk, Duke Ellington and Gary Burton in Miami at the Jai Alai Fronton, and at another gig in South Carolina.

The touring package did not carry its own PA - we had to use whatever speakers existed in each of the venues we were booked into. The hall in South Carolina was rigged with small jukebox speakers, set in a ring around the building. Useless, but there we were - we had to play the show.

Before we went on, I saw Duke Ellington begging - pleading - for a ten-dollar advance. It was really depressing. After that show, I told the guys: '[i]That's it - we're breaking the band up[/i].'

We'd been together in one configuration or another for about five years at that point, and suddenly EVERYTHING looked utterly hopeless to me. If Duke Ellington had to beg some George Wein assistant backstage for [i]ten bucks[/i], what the f*** was I doing with a ten-piece band, trying to play rock and roll - or something that was [i]almost[/i] rock and roll?[/quote]

[FZ in "The Real Frank Zappa Book", 1989]

Edited November 28, 2014 by cybertect

[Spike Vincent]

Hotels? Food? Bunch of wimps.

[blue]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1417018496' post='2616199']
The band/crew seemed to split $9000 a week so that is about $1500 on an equal split.
Ok..thats for 7 shows a week, but that is decent pay, in my book.

They could have been smarter, but seems like a nice gig all round.
I have no idea about the music tho..
[/quote]


Yeah it's all relative. That's decent pay in my book too.Just the type of gig I'm looking for. I could care less about what type of music it is, as long as the gigs are good and the money keeps coming in.

I have said this before;

[i]"All the musicians I know at the local bar level that will only play music they like, are all band-less, gig-less and sitting in their bedrooms noodling."[/i]

Blue

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1417238663' post='2618471']
[i]"All the musicians I know at the local bar level that will only play music they like, are all band-less, gig-less and sitting in their bedrooms noodling."[/i]

Blue
[/quote]

Maybe that's what they like to do?

[TimR]

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1417246322' post='2618479']


Maybe that's what they like to do?
[/quote]



I think the point is if you want to be out earning money from gigging you can't be too choosy about the songs you play.

.

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1417247160' post='2618484']


I think the point is if you want to be out earning money from gigging you can't be too choosy about the songs you play.

.
[/quote]

Indeed.. you can maybe pick and choose on the fri and sats... but sun to thurs is a tough gig to get week-in, week-out..expecially
beyond pub money.

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1417247160' post='2618484']


I think the point is if you want to be out earning money from gigging you can't be too choosy about the songs you play.

.
[/quote]

True. I think it would be naive to think you can be a small fish in a really big pond, and get paid for playing only the music you really want to play. It's a notion that I tried to explain to my mate a few years ago, but he's not the brightest chap, and couldn't grasp that playing for money and playing purely for the love of it can be 2 different kettles of fish.

[merello]

Cheers for this - very interesting.

[taunton-hobbit]

Ok, not really totally on-topic, but a long time ago (about 1972, if I'm right) a mate of mine phoned and said that he was with Clyde mcPhatter (Drifters) in London & the guy had no money, could I find him a gig - I couldn't - so nothing changes, the numbers just get bigger.......

[Guest BeardyBob]

I won't detail my thoughts on that article, as this chap nails every single point for me: http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/how_not_to_spend_150000_on_a_28_day_touran_op_ed_by_the_artery_foundations

Ludicrous!

[Old_Ben]

[quote name='BeardyBob' timestamp='1417471169' post='2620810']
I won't detail my thoughts on that article, as this chap nails every single point for me: [url="http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/how_not_to_spend_150000_on_a_28_day_touran_op_ed_by_the_artery_foundations"]http://www.altpress....ery_foundations[/url]

Ludicrous!
[/quote]

The only thing I think that guy misunderstood was that some of the musicians in the band were session musicians not band members. therefore would need paying!

[Drax]

[quote name='BeardyBob' timestamp='1417471169' post='2620810']
I won't detail my thoughts on that article, as this chap nails every single point for me: http://www.altpress.com/features/entry/how_not_to_spend_150000_on_a_28_day_touran_op_ed_by_the_artery_foundations

Ludicrous!
[/quote]
+1

[TimR]

So reading it again:

The wages and expenses were for employed musicians to back the duo.

It's not a 'band' as we would normally understand it.

So the Duo actually made a loss and didn't get paid wages or expenses. That puts a different slant on things.

[Monckyman]

Load of crap, it's a tax loss/publicity stunt by the creator of Patrion. They make OK money from merch and other sales.Better tour profits would have significantly increased their tax liability. Far better to ensure people sleep, eat and get paid,than give it to the taxman.maybe they'll do it again..
But apart from that, how can people be saying "does EVERY person on the tour need there own bed,No they don't it's wasteful"?
f***ing yes they do if you want half a decent days work out of them.
Not all bands are 17 year olds happy with a back seat in a van.

[Old_Ben]

http://www.aux.tv/2014/12/sob-story-from-band-that-lost-11000-was-actually-a-marketing-stunt/

This is the story that keeps on giving!

[JTUK]

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1417533358' post='2621437']
So reading it again:

The wages and expenses were for employed musicians to back the duo.

It's not a 'band' as we would normally understand it.

So the Duo actually made a loss and didn't get paid wages or expenses. That puts a different slant on things.
[/quote]

I think you'll find the Duo paid themselves $2500 each for months work but lost $11,000 on the tour...
I would say that is not doing too bad if sustainable, - they are building a career of it.
The hired hands are on contract for the 28 days plus rehearsals... so possibly walked away
with 6 weeks work at $1500 per week...AIUI.

[JTUK]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1417565252' post='2621920']
Load of crap, it's a tax loss/publicity stunt by the creator of Patrion. They make OK money from merch and other sales.Better tour profits would have significantly increased their tax liability. Far better to ensure people sleep, eat and get paid,than give it to the taxman.maybe they'll do it again..
But apart from that, how can people be saying "does EVERY person on the tour need there own bed,No they don't it's wasteful"?
f***ing yes they do if you want half a decent days work out of them.
Not all bands are 17 year olds happy with a back seat in a van.
[/quote]

Too right, I'm not 22 anymore and I don't crash on a floor. I'd expect to be looked after and treated ok within the realms
of sustainability. If the work couldn't afford that, then you haven't really got a sustainable product ..I'd not take the gig,
but then what sort of gig would it pan out to be, anyway..!!!
You can't rough it for 28 days... you have to leave the hotel early and be in the bus for the best part of the day, potentially
and you need to pace yourself to do that. By week 3 ... you are wanting to go home ...

[MiltyG565]

[quote name='Monckyman' timestamp='1417565252' post='2621920']
Not all bands are 17 year olds happy with a back seat in a van.
[/quote]

Even at 17, I wouldn't have done a tour sleeping in the back of a van. I find it hard enough to get a decent night's sleep in a regular bed. The least I'd accept is a mattress and heating. If that's in the back of some kind of van/caravan, fair enough. I wouldn't be sleeping on the floor of the van with a jumper for a pillow, though.

Perhaps I'm just a wuss and not all rock and roll (i.e. overtly masculine) like all the people who claim to do massive tours sleeping on a metal floor.