skej21 Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415130335' post='2597094'] I like the attention, you know even at the bar level, people love approaching musicians for a chat.You have all heard this one; [i]" I use to play in a band"[/i]. You know what I say about fun; [i]I have fun while playing, however I don't play for for fun. I play for money.[/i] You really have to understand that very few people get paid to do something they truly like doing. I remember some guy that worked in a retail store was telling me he loved his job. My response; [i]No You Don't[/i]. Blue . [/quote] My dad always used to tell me 'there are aspects of every job that you'll hate. That's why they pay you to do it!' I might dislike some of the dives I play etc but I understand that not many people get to do something even CLOSE to what they enjoy. I know im lucky so I just get on with it and count myself lucky that I don't earn money by doing something further removed from what I love. Edited November 4, 2014 by skej21 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3below Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415085387' post='2596418'] At my age, I no longer arrive at gigs with goals or expectations, That gets too involved. Now it's all about having fun. If it's not fun why do it. Blue [/quote] I think I am at the same age as you. With bar / pub gigs - I am reminded of Father Jack in Father Ted: Drink! Feck! that and playing music, what more is needed Edited November 4, 2014 by 3below Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Iain Posted November 4, 2014 Share Posted November 4, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415129127' post='2597070'] The thing that gets me is, as I understand it, your pub gigs are not 4 hours with two 15 minute breaks nights like ours. We are doing a Legion Hall thing this weekend, so we get a break. It's a 7-10 deal. Blue [/quote] Doesn't sound fun but that's the 'working band' scene in the US I guess? My band's 'just' a hobby band - I refer to it as my mid-life crisis band... We're not aiming to make a living at it, that's why I program computers during the day. Our general deal is two sets ~45 mins each. Started out @ 35 mins per set - but it's getting longer as we get most material we enjoy and crowds respond to. We're usually asked how long we want to play for! Last gig we were nearly lynched when we finished - the crowd weren't - so our encore grew an encore. Then it was quit while we were ahead or repeat a song. Been asked to do a bi-monthly slot there which is great even if it is the worlds smallest stage and pretty sweaty by the end. Bar gigs have been good to us so far but we're still working our sh*t out, would be nice to play some bigger venues but we're just not so polished yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415130335' post='2597094'] I like the attention, you know even at the bar level, people love approaching musicians for a chat.You have all heard this one; [i]" I use to play in a band"[/i]. You know what I say about fun; [i]I have fun while playing, however I don't play for for fun. I play for money.[/i] You really have to understand that very few people get paid to do something they truly like doing. I remember some guy that worked in a retail store was telling me he loved his job. My response; [i]No You Don't[/i]. Blue . [/quote] I play for fun rather than the money. However, I wouldn't dream of playing a normal pub gig without getting the going rate. There are two reasons for that: first I have a skill that can generate revenue for other businesses and I don't see why I shouldn't get a fair share; and secondly if you play for nothing you are putting a value on your services ie. nothing! If a landlord has to invest in paying you a reasonable fee, he will place a higher value on your services and make sure that he promotes the gig, etc and generally treat you well in order to protect his investment! Having said that, I am quite happy not to get any money for a special event if I think that it will be worth it (be it to help a friend or just for the fun of it). I've had some great nights, played with some cool musicians and made some good friends just by helping people out. Not to mention I have got some work out of it and had favours returned. It doesn't always have to be about money, even though in 99% of cases I do expect to be paid... Edited November 5, 2014 by peteb Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1415131114' post='2597103'] Perhaps you simply could not understand why he would love such a job? Perhaps he would hate to play the same songs in the same bars for his whole life? Each to their own. [/quote] Hey, I'm from Jersey, what do we know? Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='Iain' timestamp='1415137268' post='2597189'] Doesn't sound fun but that's the 'working band' scene in the US I guess? My band's 'just' a hobby band - I refer to it as my mid-life crisis band... [/quote] Hi Time Stamp It's probably only fun by my definition of fun. Definitely not a hobby for me. And while I would be defined as a Weekend Warrior, that will end as soon as the right full time opportunity comes along. I have no interest in income from traditional jobs/careers. I did that for 40 years. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1415149801' post='2597315'] I play for fun rather than the money. However, I wouldn't dream of playing a normal pub gig without getting the going rate. There are two reasons for that: first I have a skill that can generate revenue for other businesses and I don't see why I shouldn't get a fair share; and secondly if you play for nothing you are putting a value on your services ie. nothing! If a landlord has to invest in paying you a reasonable fee, he will place a higher value on your services and make sure that he promotes the gig, etc and generally treat you well in order to protect his investment! Having said that, I am quite happy not to get any money for a special event if I think that it will be worth it (be it to help a friend or just for the fun of it). I've had some great nights, played with some cool musicians and made some good friends just by helping people out. Not to mention I have got some work out of it and had favours returned. It doesn't always have to be about money, even though in 99% of cases I do expect to be paid... [/quote] Good rational, the venue is generating income because your band is bringing in additional and new business and you/we deserve our piece of the pie. I take issue with the guys that say; [i]"I'm not in it for the money, I don't need the money I have a regular straight job"[/i] I say; [i]Cool, when you play a gig and you receive your cash give it to the guy in the band that needs it, remember you don't.[/i] Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lojo Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415129127' post='2597070'] The thing that gets me is, as I understand it, your pub gigs are not 4 hours with two 15 minute breaks nights like ours. We are doing a Legion Hall thing this weekend, so we get a break. It's a 7-10 deal. Blue [/quote] Then they are very different indeed and your bar gigs require a lot more effort in prior song knowledge . Whilst there are some good bands that play pubs here (all be it occasionally) most pub bands would struggle for decent material beyond 2x45 , and many pad out that with poor quality songs or unrehearsed badly played standards. Edited November 5, 2014 by lojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lozz196 Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Irrespective of the music I`m playing at the time - covers or originals - I just like playing and pretty much say yes to every gig. The others in the band are a bit more rational and choose wisely but I`ll play pretty much anywhere. But then, they`re family guys, whereas I`m not - maybe they`ve actually got things to do outside of the band? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karlfer Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Our pub gig last Sat was cancelled due to landlord doing a runner. The Saturday before we did 32 numbers, including 4 six or seven minute numbers and 4 encores. Fortunately we have about 60 to choose from currently. The first set was 1 hour 10 mins. The second set was 1 hour 35 minutes. Not up to US standards but I left home just after 6pm on the Saturday night and got home just after 2am Sunday morning. That's quite enough for me thank you. And yes, I have a proper job, well, my own little business. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415161427' post='2597329'] Good rational, the venue is generating income because your band is bringing in additional and new business and you/we deserve our piece of the pie. I take issue with the guys that say; [i]"I'm not in it for the money, I don't need the money I have a regular straight job"[/i] I say; [i]Cool, when you play a gig and you receive your cash give it to the guy in the band that needs it, remember you don't.[/i] [/quote] That's one perspective, certainly, but there are others. Money isn't everything. If I help out a neighbour by fixing their roof, should I take their money anyway and give it to a local roofer? If I refuse to take their money, should they give it to a local roofer? Music is a hobby for me, and for the others in the two bands I play with, and I don't aim to make money from it. Sure, venues might be making money when we play (though we also play private parties and have done a couple of weddings) but loads of venues make money out of people's hobbies - golf clubs, race tracks, etc - so why should playing music be any different? If you only want to play for money then fine, no problem, but it's not a law is it? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 Fair enough, but don't be too surprised if the local roofer refuses to drink with you down the local any more, or worse. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fretmeister Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 I do it because I love to play music with other people. I'm long passed any ideas of being paid properly for it so I tend to try to look for things that will be fun or will increase my musical knowledge. I don't really care if there is an audience or not anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1415131114' post='2597103'] Perhaps you simply could not understand why he would love such a job? Perhaps he would hate to play the same songs in the same bars for his whole life? Each to their own. For all the musicians on here who proclaim to love gigging, there seems to be few who will happily do so without being paid. Seems to me that it's what people do when they're NOT being paid that they really love. [/quote] Quite... I don't love giging but am prepared to like it. What I might like is the sense that the band is worth the gig, and the fee and I enjoy being as good as we can be. I wouldn't want to do it otherwise... and I am leaving my current band as the new proposed line-up will damage the band's hard work and good reputation... IMO. Actually, that last bit is fact...not opinion. I might not love gigging enough to do it for free, but I do need to be proud of the band and then I'll be very committed... Otherwise, I'll just dep and do pick-up gigs.. Neither give me as much satifaction tho.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RockfordStone Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 i will play anywhere within reason, some of the best gigs i've done have been in sweaty pub backrooms. i do not play to make money, but i do play to play music. it is my hobby, my passion, i would expect to make money out of my photography hobby, as such i don't expect it from music.. i just like getting out of my bedroom to show people. i write songs, and i like to play them to people, and that's why i do it... of course id love to play to 5,000 people, but 5 people in a pub is fine by me too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1415191551' post='2597622'] Quite... I don't love giging but am prepared to like it. What I might like is the sense that the band is worth the gig, and the fee and I enjoy being as good as we can be. I wouldn't want to do it otherwise... and I am leaving my current band as the new proposed line-up will damage the band's hard work and good reputation... IMO. Actually, that last bit is fact...not opinion. I might not love gigging enough to do it for free, but I do need to be proud of the band and then I'll be very committed... Otherwise, I'll just dep and do pick-up gigs.. Neither give me as much satifaction tho.. [/quote] That's an interesting angle, and I can totally see how the money could be a measure of worth or success, rather than being important in its own right. A bit like millionaire businessmen still working 60/70 hour weeks to continue to grow their already successful businesses - though I've never understood that either Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='lojo' timestamp='1415170769' post='2597344'] Then they are very different indeed and your bar gigs require a lot more effort in prior song knowledge . Whilst there are some good bands that play pubs here (all be it occasionally) most pub bands would struggle for decent material beyond 2x45 , and many pad out that with poor quality songs or unrehearsed badly played standards. [/quote] Agreed, If your going to do covers at bar/club gigs over here you need a minimum of 40 songs to get through the night. You really should have more material than you need for our 4 hour bar/club gigs. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='Lozz196' timestamp='1415175831' post='2597382'] Irrespective of the music I`m playing at the time - covers or originals - I just like playing and pretty much say yes to every gig. The others in the band are a bit more rational and choose wisely but I`ll play pretty much anywhere. But then, they`re family guys, whereas I`m not - maybe they`ve actually got things to do outside of the band? [/quote] I'm the only single guy in my band too. I'm not to picky on where we play as long as we get our standard fee.. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1415186247' post='2597513'] Our pub gig last Sat was cancelled due to landlord doing a runner. The Saturday before we did 32 numbers, including 4 six or seven minute numbers and 4 encores. Fortunately we have about 60 to choose from currently. The first set was 1 hour 10 mins. The second set was 1 hour 35 minutes. Not up to US standards but I left home just after 6pm on the Saturday night and got home just after 2am Sunday morning. That's quite enough for me thank you.[/quote] Yeah, 4 hours is tough. Most of our gigs are 9:00- 1:00am, which means we load in at 7:30 and I don't get home until 3:00am and won't fall asleep until 4:00am. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 (edited) [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1415189439' post='2597583'] That's one perspective, certainly, but there are others. Money isn't everything. If I help out a neighbour by fixing their roof, should I take their money anyway and give it to a local roofer? If I refuse to take their money, should they give it to a local roofer? Music is a hobby for me, and for the others in the two bands I play with, and I don't aim to make money from it. Sure, venues might be making money when we play (though we also play private parties and have done a couple of weddings) but loads of venues make money out of people's hobbies - golf clubs, race tracks, etc - so why should playing music be any different? If you only want to play for money then fine, no problem, but it's not a law is it? [/quote] Not a law, however, what band hauls gear, lighting and sound for free. That's a lot of labor to just give away. As another poster said earlier in this thread;[i] " if you play for nothing you are putting a value on your services ie. nothing! "[/i] Over here we frown on bands that play for free. Example, we had a good County Fair gig that we had played annually. This past year we were not booked. The organizers found a few bands that would play for free and booked them instead. And again, I still take issue with the guy that claims he doesn't need the money or want it. If that's the case when he get's paid, I want to see him give his pay to the guy in the band that does need the money. Blue Edited November 5, 2014 by blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415190738' post='2597602'] Fair enough, but don't be too surprised if the local roofer refuses to drink with you down the local any more, or worse. [/quote] My point exactly. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 If people object to having their 'art' compromised by filthy lucre, why not play for money to avoid undermining those bands who actually need the money and then donating the money to the charity of your choice? We used to have a guitarist who like to tell us the money didn't matter because he was rich. He still expected his share, so I threw him out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='FinnDave' timestamp='1415201170' post='2597816'] If people object to having their 'art' compromised by filthy lucre, why not play for money to avoid undermining those bands who actually need the money and then donating the money to the charity of your choice? We used to have a guitarist who like to tell us the money didn't matter because he was rich. He still expected his share, so I threw him out. [/quote] My point exactly. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blue Posted November 5, 2014 Author Share Posted November 5, 2014 On this side topic of playing pub/bar/club gigs for free. I'm sure nobody here is bringing a fully rehearsed band, sound and lighting and a crowd to a 4 hour gig free of charge. Blue Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted November 5, 2014 Share Posted November 5, 2014 [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415200624' post='2597803'] My point exactly. Blue [/quote] [quote name='blue' timestamp='1415201934' post='2597831'] My point exactly. Blue [/quote] I think we're playing the same song here! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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