Advice wanted for a gig rig

[ubit]

I've heard nothing but good reports on Messa Boogie gear too but have never tried one of their amps

[karlfer]

Well Bradwell (name changed to protect the innocent) , having read all this again, my own little contribution.
Any big rig at home doesn't sound like it does at gig/rehearsal. It's main contribution is plaster removal, crockery destruction
Your point about new stuff being warranted is very valid. However, much 2nd hand gear has had any warranty issue sorted and frankly, % wise, failures really are miniscule.
What I would do in our position, with your budget;
1. Buy that used Berg 4 x 10 on here, you will not need anything else until age catches up with you. For gigs or rehearsals
2. Buy a decent rated, quality 1 x 12" cab for home use with the TC head, or whatever head you end up with.
3. Buy a decent head, 500/700 watt off somebody with good feedback on here.

The point of used equipment is that you can try it and if it doesn't work out long term, you can move it on/trade it without losing too much. I can not stress enough how a rig will sound different in so many places. Some gigs are a fight with eq, others, you walk in, set up, hit a couple of notes and that's it.
If I may make so bold, a young rock/pop/indie/punk band, image is important. A 4 X 10 may help that image more than a little but efficient 2 x 12.
Good luck and enjoy all that is to come.

[Bradwell]

[quote name='karlfer' timestamp='1409750995' post='2542943']
a young rock/pop/indie/punk band, image is important. A 4 X 10 may help that image more than a little but efficient 2 x 12.
[/quote]

Young is debateable, pop doesn't come into it. I'm playing music that I enjoy and if other people like it that's a bonus, not gonna compromise artistic integrity to cultivate some marketable image. More important that I like the tone if the equipment is loud enough.

I suppose it's easy to be seduced by big Marshall stacks: I'll take on all the good advice I've been given about modern equipment and avoid wearing leopard print jump suits whilst prancing about the stage with a double-neck BC Rich and wailing falsetto vocals [This is not Spinal Tap]. Although rattling the plaster off walls sounds like excellent fun, it's my house I'd be ruining.

[JTUK]

Mixing bass and drums is simple.... and I don't understand how one can obliterate the other in terms of sound.
You'd have to terminally stupid and dense to allow that to happen. The kit will project and you just have to turn up the bass
to match it. If you can't hear certain notes which will be the higher register, you'll EQ those in.
What will spoil this simple transaction is the gtr. If they are oblivious to their sound against yours in terms of frequency
occupied then you'll never get a sound until you have deucated the gtr/gtrs or sacked them. Some bass rigs will
knock down walls from a distance so you need to be aware of how your rig travels, but after a certain distance away from the stage
area you can't cater for that.

Simple test for a mix.
Drum plays a straight beat at normal verse volumes. Bass joins in and you can hear both instruments fine.
Try something fiddly up top if that is your thing and you still want it to come over the drums.
Play a chugging 8 beat pattern and gtr joins in with bass and drums. If, at this point you can't pick
out the bass outfront, apart from knowing it is there, you are losing the mix. Go back and take bass of gtr amp, or
when you have given up on this after the umpteen attempt, sack gtrs off..
Repeat until you get one who has less bass on their sound that you do...

I'll wager the number of bands who fail this simple test is high... and it doesn't help if the bass enters into the
spirit of things and turns up and that leaves the drummer having the beat his kit up to be jheard.
General rule, a screaming 50w gtr amp is going to be able get TOO loud, too easily, so the
less watts they can run with the better.
Don't ever let keys play chugging patters or riffs, give them nice sexy chords, or better still, let them educate you with
nice sexy chords and find a place for them in your songs..

[Bradwell]

I suppose the drums can't really be attenuated below a certain volume (drummer doesn't use brushes) and room acoustics comes into play a lot more because of it. We put loads of padding on the walls of our practice room a few weeks ago and the drums became a lot clearer and quieter. First port of call next time will be checking the two (drums/bass) against each other and after that, guitar volumes go up or down as necessary.

I'm still playing around with EQ, yesterday's session taught me that the 15" Laney combo alone just can't do high notes. Treble turned all the way up on my JBass (with very good aftermarket electronics) and then more treble through the amp settings = not satisfactory.

We're getting the hang of setting volumes correctly but there's also lots of work in getting the guitars set up with the right tone/composing things correctly to give us all space to play. Told the rhythm guitarist to stick to the upper 4 strings for a part we were composing yesterday, piece of music that's driven by drums and bass with a riff that covers quite a wide range of high & low notes. It's pretty frantic and guitars playing expansive chords would muddy everything up.

[xgsjx]

My tip for getting a good band sound is to turn the bass down on the guitars. If they turn it back up, swap instruments with them.

[Lozz196]

Agree. I also prefer this route if a guitarist says their sound isn`t sharp enough, again, cut bass instead of adding treble.

Edited September 3, 2014 by Lozz196

[paul_5]

[quote name='xgsjx' timestamp='1409520738' post='2540531']
Giving a guitarist a 4x12 is not a clever move.
[/quote]

This .

I have to compete with two of them. My current setup is an ageing SWR SM400 into a Hartke Hydrive 410 and it's hella loud!
I picked the head up for £250 in the 'for sale' section on here and haven't looked back.

One guitarist has quite a gassy sound, and the other has a more trebly, sharper sound. Between them they cover pretty much all of the audible spectrum (apart from bass fundamentals), and it shouldn't work. Fortunately the lead guitarist has the bassy sound, and the rhythm player has the trebly tone, so there's always a bit of room to shoehorn some bass playing into the mix.

Add the fact that everyone is a team player, and understands that the mix is more important than the individual parts and we're on to a winner.


Apart from the last rehearsal when lead player started playing with his new MXR Micro Amp boost pedal. Bloody Hell! that was LOUD!!!

Edited September 3, 2014 by paul_5

[xgsjx]

For the 4x12, you could disconnect 3 of the drivers & just connect one of the top drivers, this would give the cab a better sound for guitar.

One of my previous singers at a rehearsal said "my vocal needs more bass" & went to the desk, turned up the bass & got loads of feedback. I explained to him that bass on the vocal is actually mids, turned the bass down & increased the mids & he was happy.
The guitarists also need to know to leave room for the vocals. An eq pedal can be a great tool for the guitar, cutting out the mids on the lead during the vocal & bringing them back for the solos.

[thisnameistaken]

I'm a bit late to the party, but...

The usual 4x or 8x10 cabs are a bit old hat these days. They're insanely heavy and unwieldy and they aren't very efficient, so you're lugging around a huge piece of equipment for very little benefit. You will come to hate them once your gig schedule gets busy.

If your budget is over a grand, look at some of the lighter kit (2x12, perhaps + tweeter) offered by brands like Barefaced, Schroeder et al. They might look expensive but they work. They really work! You can carry them in one hand if necessary, they offer a 4ohm load to the amp so they'll give you all the power from a 500w head, and they'll give you all the volume you could ever need from backline gear.

All this said I do like Hartke gear, I was running an LH500 for years and it was rock solid reliable and sounded great. I swapped it out for a GB Shuttle in the end but only to save weight, and to be honest I still think the Hartke sounded better.

[Bradwell]

Just a quick update on this one.

Massive thanks to Karlfer for letting me try out his Barefaced S12V before his gig last Saturday, wonderful piece of kit, will keep an eye Barefaced cabs in the for sale section when I've got the cash together.

Had a play around with a Markbass 4 x 8 cab too, very nice but I couldn't really crank the volume such a small shop and realised I should also try a low tuned bass to test the low frequency response (got a Tanglewood tuned two steps below standard or could just borrow a 5 string in the shop). Bought some Elixir strings whilst I was there: love the tone and feel of them but a bit wary the coating might come off after a while, gotta try these things atleast once.

Planned a trip to Promenade music in Morecambe for this Saturday, specifically to try out some Eden gear but also GK, Markbass & Orange depending on what's in stock. Still leaning towards a stacked pair of 210's / 212's. Busy selling a bunch of unused stuff to raise funds at the moment.

[bassintheface]

[quote name='sharkboy' timestamp='1409582563' post='2541123']
Quoted for painful truth!

As a recent convert, I'd second recommendations for a good lightweight 2x12 and a class D head. My TC blacksmith is amazing, though not the cheapest. The RH750 would be a fine substitute, and is versatile enough to cover any sound you might want. There are plenty of good options for 2x12s out there, and if you've enough left in the budget you could always buy 2 for more versatility!
[/quote]

I have an Aguilar Tonehammer 500 and 2 x DB112 cabs.

It is an awesome rig.

Check them out.

The head weighs about 2kg!

For small gigs and small rehearsals I take 1 cab (rarely).
Generally I take the 2 cabs, but they are easy to lift etc and sound immense.