Fender or Squier?

[Grangur]

Wow! I posted the OP from my phone at lunchtime and I come home and I'm chuffed at the good responses. (But on BC I know you/we are always great)

I have bought a few Fender basses and never really gelled with them. I had a Squier P and it went in a purge. Besides I have 2 'Wicks, so what do I need anything else for? Besides I'm not in a band. Work commitments don't leave me much time to rehearse, and I can't be sure of being free at weekends either.

Man I miss that Squier!

I sold it on ebay and it went missing and got nothing for it in the end. Thankfully I kept the Hipshot bridge and SD pups. So I may even do another re-build.

I'm not 100% sold on going for a Fender or Squier. I was actually thinking "budget or premium". I guess an Overwater-Tanglewood is also an option.

Your responses are really interesting. What comes across most, and my own findings agree with this it "try before you buy".

I was once surprised a bit when I went to a BCers house and tried 2 basses. I didn't really gell with the £300 one I went there to try and buy. I did really like the other bass ha had, but he wanted £700. I couldn't afford that just then. He got a bit funny when I didn't buy... But hey-ho. It takes all sorts.

Thanks again guys.

[Marc S]

Interested to see what you opt for grangur
That blue P bass above looks nice

This is my second episode of bass playing
My first was in the 80's - when I was a young man

Back then, I sensed much more snobbery when it came to guitars
The general consensus (of most, but not all) was;
Either you buy Fender or Gibson, or you buy rubbish

Indeed, many guitar shop assistants seemed to think that,
or at least it came across as a sort of "subliminal message"
To a certain extent, they were right - there was seemingly many more crappy guitars around then
Jedson and Kay (the catalogue people) come to mind

The derogatory term "Jap Crap" was also banded about a lot (and still is, though less)
At the time, I owned a Shaftesbury Ric copy, which was also made in Japan, in the 70's I think
This was a superb bass - better than the 4001's / 3's I've played
and I couldn't get one for love nor money now.....
And several other pals had well made Japanese guitars and basses which were great quality

I recall the first Squier basses being issued - again with a lot of derogatory comments

The snobbery attached to the badge on a guitar is still there, I think
but as I had over 20 years of not playing - I sensed it was rather less obvious on my return to playing
Perhaps this is because the quality of other brands and copies are much higher in general?

Of course, I'm not suggesting those that are proud of their genuine USA Gibsons and Fenders are in any way snobs
If you love the instrument you own & play - that's all that matters
I'm sure there's now less of a gap in quality, and less stigma to owning a "copy" than there ever was

Cheers

EDIT: A good second-hand Squier is a good investment, IMHO
You certainly won't lose much, and might well end up with an instrument which, in a few years is regarded a classic

Edited June 12, 2014 by Marc S

[neepheid]

[quote name='Weststarx' timestamp='1402494370' post='2474108']
If you think you are going to play it a lot and often go for a Fender.

If you are going to play with it once or twice buy a Squire.

As long as niether are made in China I think you'll be okay. I recently had a Fender Dimension bass from the Chinese factory and it was bloody awful!
[/quote]

One poor instrument and you're condemning the entire output of a factory? I don't think that's fair.

[Grangur]

@Marc S
I'd agree that most Fender players/owners are probably not snobs, but are more-likely reacting to fend off the jibes from others who are less knowledgeable who ARE the brand snobs.

It's not something I'm going to rush into I've got 2 Warwick Streamers; with and without frets. So the Squire is really an indulgence to replace the one I miss. I sold it because the tone was a bit "metalic" for my liking. I'm getting to be more of the view that a change in strings would have cured the 'problem'.

[quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1402564159' post='2474761']
One poor instrument and you're condemning the entire output of a factory? I don't think that's fair.
[/quote]

I agree. I'm not a Fender expert by any stretch of the imagination, but I've played Fenders that do nothing for me and others that melt you socks. Regrettably I've never owned one of the latter. I've had a few of the former ones.

There's also the problem that 1/2 of the "Fenders" on ebay are not "Fender" by origin. I've owned a fake and sold it on. The buyer wanted a part credit because the decal wasn't as good as it could be. His view was he'd get a new decal, then it would be a true Fender. It takes all sorts...

[JamesBass]

As everyone has said, you'll get exceptional Squires which blow all the Fenders in the shop out the water! You'll also find that Fender, Mex or American that feels utterly spot on! But then once you've narrowed your search down it comes to budget and what it is you want.

Take a look at the Limelight guitars thread as they make custom relic'd P's for a less than a brand new American Fender and countless people on here have got either one on order or have got theirs and love them!

Here's the direct website http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk

[uncle psychosis]

One of the best things about Fenders/Squiers is that pretty much every music shop on the planet now has a reasonable selection of both. Get out there and try loads, one will speak to you

[stingraybassman]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1402566410' post='2474787']
As everyone has said, you'll get exceptional Squires which blow all the Fenders in the shop out the water! You'll also find that Fender, Mex or American that feels utterly spot on! But then once you've narrowed your search down it comes to budget and what it is you want.

Take a look at the Limelight guitars thread as they make custom relic'd P's for a less than a brand new American Fender and countless people on here have got either one on order or have got theirs and love them!

Here's the direct website [url="http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk"]http://www.classicandcoolguitars.co.uk[/url]
[/quote]

I really need to stop looking at the burgundy mist jazz on there.....

[geoham]

I was quite vain when buying my P-Bass. Ended up with Mex Fender and absolutely didn't want a Squier! My only experience of the brand was a Chinese built Affinity series Strat that I had when I was at school, which really wasn't up to much.

The P plays well enough, but I found the original pickup to harsh at the top end and lacking 'ooommph' at the low end. It was very high output though - far louder than my Jazz and active Ibanez. The pickup is ceramic, and has DC resistance of only 4.5KΩ (ish!). I replaced it with Tonerider I found on Amazon, which is much more to my liking. Alnico V, 10 or 11 K DC resistance. It's widely accepted that these are the same pickups as the Squier Classic Vibe.

I've ended up paying the price of a Mex Fender, plus a pickup - for a bass that probably sounds exactly like the Squier CV! I've never tried the Squier CV, so can't speak for the build quality - however, I'd recommend trying it if you can live the with Squier logo!

[JamesBass]

[quote name='stingraybassman' timestamp='1402570657' post='2474842']
I really need to stop looking at the burgundy mist jazz on there.....
[/quote]
I'm loving the almost Pino alike on there! I'm likely to pull the trigger in the next few months on one of his instruments, thinking I'll go for a Lake Placid Blue with Tort guard and RW based on a 62 P...

[stingraybassman]

[quote name='JamesBass' timestamp='1402575449' post='2474920']
I'm loving the almost Pino alike on there! I'm likely to pull the trigger in the next few months on one of his instruments, thinking I'll go for a Lake Placid Blue with Tort guard and RW based on a 62 P...
[/quote]

If a sonic blue jazz appears its going to be a problem. Have you played one?

Sorry for the Hijack buy the way

[hamfist]

The reasons to go for Fender not Squier would be down to wood choices for me. It is my experience that quality tonewoods for the body (ash and alder etc as opposed to basswood and agathis) make a noticeable difference in the tone of a bass. For me it's a discernible positive difference. I will never buy another bass made from basswood or agathis, unless I play it first and it has some amazing "magic" about it.

[Mr Fretbuzz]

Me too hamfist. My first bass was a Squire P made out of basswood. I've got 3 Fenders with another two on order. I might consider a squire vm telecaster but I'd prefer a fender one if they brought out a vm. Heard that the squire VMs are good though.

[JamesBass]

[quote name='stingraybassman' timestamp='1402578855' post='2474965']


If a sonic blue jazz appears its going to be a problem. Have you played one?

Sorry for the Hijack buy the way
[/quote]
Not yet, I'll be relying on other people's reviews mainly but it seems like it's worth the risk with these!

Yes appologies for the hijack but if the OP is after a good bass then I've only heard good things about limelight!

[Grangur]

Hi-jack away. This is about having a good discussion and comparing experiences. Thanks all for your in-put

[gsgbass]

I had a Squier Precision a few years ago that was ok. It didn't hold up as well as a Standard, or an American Standard Fender. So just stayed with a regular Fender. Your choice though. Similar to the choices of Gibson, or Epiphone.

[HowieBass]

The Squier VM P bass in amber/maple has a 'soft' maple body which is still quite a hard and dense wood; it's harder/denser than red alder. Agathis (or kauri) is also harder/denser than red alder.

[darren]

No one in your band or the audience will care what badge your bass is wearing as long as it doesn't sound bad.

[SubsonicSimpleton]

Play lots and pick what works for you.

As wood is not a homogenous engineering material, there is no substitute for hands on testing, and quality of strings and attention to good setup make a massive difference.

A neck profile that fits your hand is way more important than the badge on the headstock IMHO.

[Telebass]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1402820232' post='2476948']
A neck profile that fits your hand is way more important than the badge on the headstock IMHO.
[/quote]
This is what matters. My Fender Standard is fabulous with its replacement neck (original failed), but the Squier bitsa is sublime by any standards if you like Jazz necks. Assuming baseball bats aren't your favourite profile, of course! If they are, then not. The only thing the 'name' MIGHT guaratee is a certain baseline quality, and we all know that can vary wildly, whatever the brand.

[barry70uk]

I've had both currently have jazz USA std and mim precision which I reffied with a seymor Duncan as the stock pick up was awfull the guitar neck and build quality is superb

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='darren' timestamp='1402817498' post='2476926']
No one in your band or the audience will care what badge your bass is wearing as long as it doesn't sound bad.
[/quote]

Actually in my experiance it's the other guys in the band that care the most about you having a bass that says Fender on the headstock... I've been to a number of auditions where it's expected that you'll play a fender... obviously I never join those bands once I've found out they are more concerned with what they look like than what they sound like, but still it does happen alot.

I agree that no-one in the audience cares but quite a few bands would turn their noses up at anything other than a Fender.

[Grangur]

This is an interesting discussion. It's been good hearing everyone's views. Many thanks.

FWIW I'm a tinkerer. I like to play about with instruments, as you can see from the Squier that went AWOL.

This weekend I was browsing on the bay; as you do. and saw a cheapie P going.... brace yourself now....



It was "collect only" and up near "The Wash", and I live near Stansted. They were, as luck would have it, coming south to see their daughter, a music student, in London. This bass was the property of the said daughter and they dropped it in to me on the way south.

I can't say I'm in love with the colour, but maybe I can fix that at a later stage. But I could not believe the set up. The action was WAY up high and the bbot bridge was down so low the grub-screws weren't even binding on the base-plate. The pots were crackling from lack of use. The truss was totally un-tensioned.

I took it apart, cleaned the pots, shimmed the neck, shielded the cavity in the body and gave it a set up. Now it plays ok. I think it needs some good strings, but it's a start. I might change the pups if I keep it. The body is basswood, I think, but it's like new.

Oh, yeah... I sanded the headstock and removed the "Gear4Music" logo. That typeface looks sooo tacky. It looks to me like "Toys R Us".

But... I really dig the feel of it. The neck feels nice, my fingers move along it like it was made for me. The weight is fine. The tuners are crap, but I can do something or nothing with those later, I can spray it... if I keep it. It's a chance to work on the p-bass concept, try some bassy strings. I've got a spare set of Quarter-pounders and a set of Kent Armstrongs...

Besides, what do you expect for £40 inc delivery?

Edit: This bass was clearly sold to the girl online; in such a bad state of set-up that it was unplayable. I'm just amazed that a commercial seller can do that, even on an £89 bass. NO WONDER she never played it and lost interest. She COULD have loved it. No wonder some brands get a crap name for themselves.

Now, where can I buy a Fender P-bass logo...?

Edited June 16, 2014 by Grangur

[Grangur]

Surprise, surprise... it came with a padded gig bag too!

[hairychris]

[quote name='SubsonicSimpleton' timestamp='1402820232' post='2476948']
As wood is not a homogenous engineering material, there is no substitute for hands on testing, and quality of strings and attention to good setup make a massive difference.[/quote]

So much this.

One of the things that you pay for when you buy a more expensive instrument is that the "dead" timber has been filtered out. This doesn't mean that a cheap instrument can feel really lively, you just have to try more to find the right one. Pretty much everything else can be changed (electronics, fretwork, finish), as long as the instrument is well constructed.

A friend owns a well set-up Squire (can't remember if J or P off the top of my head, think it's a P) and it pays amazingly well. Sounded great too.

EDIT: I own a MIM Telecaster (6er) from a FSR run... it's very nearly as good to play as my MIA Paul Reed Smiths and Gibson LP, and was a fraction of the price.

Edited June 16, 2014 by hairychris

[throwoff]

Wood is not a homogenous material no, that's why it's lucky that ALL the tone of a bass comes from the strings, pickups and electronics.

The wood makes not one jot of difference.