solo4652 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Folks, I've managed to secure some slots for my new band at the July Foodie festival at Tatton Park. Large, managed stage, thousands of people in the audience, press coverage etc. Big opportunity for us. No gig fee, but we have been offered "expenses". I've no idea what to ask for. Some more info; We're a 5-piece covers band We all live within 30 mins drive of the venue We'll be doing 2 X 40 minutes slots on the Saturday and 2 X 40 mins slots on the Sunday No need to take any backline with us, but drummer has to take his kit What would you regard as reasonable expenses to ask for, please? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BassBod Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Guest passes, fuel costs, food and drink - they are getting your time and services for free, so don't be shy. Add up your total band mileage@45p per mile if you need a figure to feel confident with haggling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thunderbird Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 AS you live so close etc I would say food and drink expenses would be about all you could reasonably ask for and maybe a small amount for fuel? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Do you know the other bands? Could you get an idea what their deal is. In effect this is two gigs so price as such. Basically for a free gig, you want food and drink rider and pertol. I'd say £100 for fuel ..max for the both days and 1 pass per member AND kids under a certain age free. I am surprised that they aren't taking the lead here with what exes they pay... Also, what slots have you got.... if you have the filler slots, your bargaining power is less but if you are close to headline, then they WANT you more... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Depending where you are on the bill - and what his kit is - check out whether your drummer is expected to let his kit be shared? Happened to my son once in Glasgow, he caved - and at the end of the festival he was short £500+ of cymbals that went walkies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) Event website: http://foodiesfestival.com/event/tatton-park-chesire/ Closing time each day is 6 p.m. We've asked for: 3 o'clock and 5 o'clock (headline slot) on the Saturday, and 2 o'clock and 4 o'clock on the Sunday. Not sure whether the drummer's expected to make his kit available for any other acts. I suspect not and I think he'd refuse anyway. Free food and drinks probably not a problem given that it's a Foodie festival. How does this look; Mileage for everybody calculated at 45 ppm, or £100 in total, whichever is lower. 1 (2?) free event passes and car-park passes for each band member for each day Free food and drink. Seem reasonable? Edited April 9, 2014 by solo4652 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KevB Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Hot tub, drugs and hookers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
6v6 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Out of interest are all the bands playing for free? It seems odd to me that what appears to be a relatively large, non-charity event which is making money off tickets is not paying a fee to the bands. Personally I'd ask for at least £200 per day (split between the band obviously), as that's the going rate even in small pubs and social clubs these days IME. Bigger functions would, normally, command a much bigger fee, but I guess it depends on the bands and nature of the event. Still, if you can get some expenses, don't care about the fee and want the gig then go for it, hope you enjoy it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Plus one on the hot tub and hookers It seems that you are booked as an integral part of the event and I was going to say that all the nitty gritty comes into a final negotiating stance. I think they are getting a good deal on the face of it... as you are playing 4 x 40 mins for you 'fee/exes' It seems odd that you are doing so many slots and you may well have to swap with other bands between your slots..?? so as long as you think it is all ok, then all good alround. The thing about holding out for the fees..whatever they may be, is that you must be prepared to walk away if it is not enough or to your liking. The other thing is that we all do loss leading gigs of some sort, I'm sure, so if the value is in being seen by x number of people then you have to reconcile to that. We get round this by paying the guys the min amount we agree a gig is worth doing ( which happens to be £270, atm ) If a very nice proposition comes along and it doesn't/can't hit the fee, we have to decide if it is worth it to fund it ourselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 (edited) What "exposure" are you hoping to get, a reputation as a free band. There will be two lots of people working for free, the photographer and the musicians. There will be no doubt a till ringing in the bar, ticket sales, stall holders paying a fee and mugs playing for nothing. The best exposure you can get is to start as you mean to go on and request to be paid what you are worth, if you value yourself as worth nothing, it might be an idea to look for another band. The cheeky beggars that organise these things are out to exploit people, sorry but they are. Let some other mugs provide free entertainment for the clients whilst they spend their money. A reputation as a free band will not do your brand any good. When people "play for free" you are actually harming the industry you want to break in to and reducing your chances of getting paid work, make no mistake, they will drop you like hot sh*t the second you ask to be paid. They are mugging you off, have more pride in yourself. You would not concrete someone's drive in the hope they pay you next time it needs doing. Work out a fee, give them the fee and let them find another bunch of mugs if they do not want to pay it. Edited April 9, 2014 by spacey Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 The event is part of The Media Company Publications group Hmm, they want £800-£1200 for an advert in one of their many magazine titles . They also are behind hundreds of similar magazine based events, all of which will be to attract advertising. They recently advertised for a PR events co-ordinator, one role listed was contacting artists to arrange entertainment for events. I think a few bands will be getting a zero budget it might lead to other work call from them. How desperate are you again to play for free.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Not my gig to argue over, tbh. If it were offered to us, we would look closer, and as with all these things, you need to know the whole deal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FinnDave Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 We only play for free if it is a legitimate charity gig, otherwise you are just undermining other musicians. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Don't do it for no fee, you are setting the bar very low for a very hard pressed industry if you do. I have worked at Tatton hundreds of times over the years, at the RHS flower show, wedding fayres, and private functions, never for less that £150 per person. (and sometimes for much more) The 'exposure' argument is complete rubbish. The organisation you're working for will make bucketloads of money from it.... Don't do it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Not sure whether this post will appear as a direct reply to Spacey's first reply (post no. 10). The "quote" button doesn't seem to work for me. ...mugs playing for nothing ...if you value yourself as nothing, it might be an idea to look for another band ...they are mugging you off, have more pride in yourself I consider these comments to be rude and I object to being called a "mug", to the suggestion that I value myself as nothing and that I should have more pride in myself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 I think you should learn to read in context and stop trying to be offended. Nobody called you a mug, been a northerner you should know what these sayings mean. If I have offended inadvertently I offer an apology, which from someone with my reputation is rare. . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
41.2Hz Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 We always respond to requests for playing for free (charity gigs etc) that it'll cost £250. That's our break-even cost - 3 x rehearsals at £50 a pop for rehearsal room hire (including use of their gear), and £100 to cover beer money for 5, or 6 if our semi-permanent harp player is turning up. Anything less means that it's costing us money to play at an event that someone else is putting on as a vehicle to make money. Of course this stance will vary if it's a cause which we support personally... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big_Stu Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 FWIW I would go along with never, ever play for free unless it's a charity fund-raiser. IME Unless your act is so red hot & distinctive that you couldn't fail to be recognised in the future, or be heavily featured in the reviews IF there are any; you'll get nothing from it apart from follow-up requests to play for free. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spacey Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Even a lot of these "charity fund raisers" need some careful thought. Chugging musicians wages appears to be the latest thing for some of these charities. On Exposure, ask for an add for the band in each of the magazines they publish, at £1200 a pop for an add, it sounds a fair trade off. Bet they refuse... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 @Spacey, post number 16. I accept your apology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solo4652 Posted April 9, 2014 Author Share Posted April 9, 2014 Quite by accident, I seem to have opened up a debate here about the pros and cons of playing for expenses only. This was not my intention. I completely understand that there is a range of views about this and these are currently being aired and discussed in this BC thread: http://basschat.co.uk/topic/233860-musicians-expected-to-play-for-nothing-by-generous-venues/ Thank you to those who have helped me to put together an expenses request for our gig. That's all I was asking for, really. Steve Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dingus Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Food festival? The bottom line is , whatever you do or don't end up getting in terms of money , make sure you all get to eat until you are fit to burst, and make sure you get some jars of home made chutney to take home with you. And cake. Lots of cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Yeah. Hookers love cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Number6 Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 [quote name='KevB' timestamp='1397040569' post='2419957'] Hot tub, drugs and hookers. [/quote] This sounds entirely reasonable..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted April 9, 2014 Share Posted April 9, 2014 Dirty, filthy cake. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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