Fretless wanted. Will be my 1st fretless - advice appreciated

[Sara SG]

I am looking for a new or 2nd hand Fretless 4 string. All advice appreciated as it will be my first fretless. I am looking for a sound like Pino Palladino or Mick Karn
The Jaco style basses are a bit off-putting in that respect.
I currently play a Precision which I love (only problem is it give me neck ache no doubt due to it being low-slung) Something lighter would be nice
Im a lead singer so I usually play without looking at the frets anyway, so I all the threads I have read about dots etc don't seem to apply. As long as I can hear my own playing (in my loud rock band) I am hoping it can manage.
Anyway the fretless is mainly for some experimenting and recording so I really don't want to spend too much money on it. As little as possible.
Only other requirement is that it doesn't resemble a tree. There seems to be little choice out there - I suppose if I don't want natural wood is has to be black?

[Green Alsatian]

If you can find one, the Ibanez SR300 DXF sounds like it would meet your requirements. I had one a couple of years ago - bought it for £150 and sold it for that a few months later. (there was one on here for sale for £150 also). Mine was very light in weight and had a lined fingerboard, P/J config (reverse P) and a two-band EQ, which made for a wide array of tones. I did try it with chorus and an octave pedal (you have to with a fretless) and it was capable of a Pino-esque vibe, if he ever injected both of his hands with anaesthetic.

The one I had was candy apple red and for some reason the body of text from the auction is here, along with my pics:

[url="http://www.worthpoint.com/worthopedia/ibanez-soundgear-sr-300-dxf-fretless-218739699"]http://www.worthpoin...tless-218739699[/url]

Oh, and welcome to Basschat!

Edited March 4, 2014 by Green Alsatian

[alyctes]

I'm not sure if it will do the sound you want (personally I think the P fretless sounds much nicer than the J fretless), but a decent second-hand Yamaha RBX200F will be a fine bass, not too heavy and not expensive - £120 or so? I've got one, and it is definitely not for sale.

Also, I recommend Aria Sinsonido 690FL. Looks cool, sounds lovely (though perhaps not very Pino?), weighs very little.

Edited March 4, 2014 by alyctes

[ambient]

Try a few, that's my advice.

Strings make a huge difference too, maybe more so than on fretted basses. I've had my fretless for about a month, and I've settled on flat wound strings, they just give me the sound I'm after.

Pino plays a fretless Stingray, Mick Khan a Wal, both quite mid/low mid heavy basses. Maybe something by Yamaha or Warwick ?

Edited March 4, 2014 by ambient

[alyctes]

Strings definitely make a big difference. Flats for sure, but also think about nylon-coated strings; they have a real organic hum which doesn't seem to come from all-metal strings.

[gsgbass]

I use D'Addario Nylons on my Fender Fretless, and a Precision with great sounds.

[CamdenRob]

Try a Westone Thunder fretless... cheap as chips, does the job

[Jigster]

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1393919673' post='2385711']
Try a Westone Thunder fretless... cheap as chips, does the job
[/quote]

Yep, just got one of these from this parish - plays lovely and I suspect, when I get into rehearsals, will have plenty of presence.

[CamdenRob]

[quote name='Jigster' timestamp='1393920786' post='2385722']
Yep, just got one of these from this parish - plays lovely and I suspect, when I get into rehearsals, will have plenty of presence.
[/quote]

I've always liked them as instruments. Look good, feel good and sound good.

Can sometimes weight more than Eric Pickles but at the price, I think they represent a good choice.

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Sara SG' timestamp='1393887168' post='2385585']
I am looking for a new or 2nd hand Fretless 4 string. All advice appreciated as it will be my first fretless. I am looking for a sound like Pino Palladino or Mick Karn

I currently play a Precision which I love (only problem is it give me neck ache no doubt due to it being low-slung) Something lighter would be nice
[/quote]
Hi and welcome to bass chat.

A couple of observations...if your current bass is giving you aches you are probably not wearing it properly. No musical instrument should cause you pain, it should feel comfortable. Also, it is nice to see a lead singer that plays bass...there aren't many around nowadays. Kudos.

As for the fretless, do you realise that both Mick Karn & Pino's sounds are heavily coloured by effects? If you expect to simply plug in (even an extremely expensive fretless) and have that kind of sound you will be sorely disappointed!

My advice with this kind of thread is always the same...you need to get "hands on" and try as many basses as you can. With the best will in the world every single member of this forum will have their own opinions on offering you what ultimately is their own subjective preference. For me, with the info you have told us I would strongly recommend you look for an Ibanez GWB and try one out. Not the cheapest option...but not exactly an expensive option either (about £350 used).

Remember, it's actually hard to buy a bad bass nowadays....

[muttley]

There's an [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/171250230510?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2648"]Ibanez SR300DXF on eBay[/url] atm. Doesn't look like a tree. Pickup only though.

[TheGreek]

Many would agree that you get a lot of bass with a Bass Collection SB310 for not too much money. There's a fretless currently on ebay:

http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Bass-collection-fret-less-Japanese-guitar-/161237057490?pt=UK_Musical_Instruments_Guitars_CV&hash=item258a7a3fd2

Get yourself some Status nylon tapewound strings (£13.99 =P&P) and your pretty much on your way.

[pete.young]

Bass Collection, made in Japan by SGC Nanyo, are very well made instruments and pop up in the for sale forums here from time to time. They are very light weight - my SB320 fretless is around 7lb, and are available in a variety of finishes and colours. There's a sunburst one on the bay at the moment, but the price is a bit high.

Edit: TheGreek, great minds think alike, eh?

Edited March 4, 2014 by pete.young

[TheGreek]

[quote name='pete.young' timestamp='1393932916' post='2385898']
Bass Collection, made in Japan by SGC Nanyo, are very well made instruments and pop up in the for sale forums here from time to time. They are very light weight - my SB320 fretless is around 7lb, and are available in a variety of finishes and colours. There's a sunburst one on the bay at the moment, but the price is a bit high.

Edit: TheGreek, great minds think alike, eh?
[/quote]

They do say that geniuses are rarely appreciated in their own lifetimes - I think we're both living proof of that..

Any time you're interested in figuring out the meaning of life, let me know..

[Adrenochrome]

Just a word to say that flats are not compulsory - I have heavily worn rounds on mine. I'd advise getting something with a bridge pickup, there's some good suggestions above.

[Dingus]

Hi Sara

As it sounds like you have noticed already, there is not a huge amount of choice in fretless basses at the less expensive end of the market. The plain fact is that fretless bass is a fairly maligned instrument nowadays in most genres of popular music, so manufacturers are catering to a pretty low level of demand.That said, there are still some pretty good affordable alternatives out there .

When you say you you aren't that keen on a Jaco style bass , is that specifically Jazz Basses you are set against, because if you are willing to consider a Precision style bass, this could be a likely contender:




I haven't played one of these myself, but the ESP LTD range has a very good reputation , and for under three hundred quid I think you will struggle to do better, providing you can cope without lines on the board. It's got a solid alder body , maple neck with a thin "U" profile and rosewood fingerboard, so , on paper at least , it ticks all the boxes to give a proper Fender-like sound and feel. That P+J pickup configuration is very versatile, can still sound pretty modern, depending on how you play it, if you want to allude to the 1980's- style players you mention , and a Fender-style bass will feel pretty familiar to you , which is always a good start.

If I am being brutally honest, I think you may struggle with the intonation more than you may think without lines, not least of all because for all but the most capable of players correct intonation on fretless bass is a constant struggle even[i] with[/i] the aid of lines, but in the end the decision is yours and don't let my personal prejudices influence you . Some people find lines more helpful than others do, and if you are buying the bass primarily to experiment with at home and in the studio then you have got time to practise with it and adjust to not having frets( or lines. )

Anyhow, it's great that you are interested in playing fretless bass, because it's such an appealing-sounding instrument . I have recently started playing fretless again myself after a long lay-off, and I am enjoying it immensely, except for the fact that it is giving me flashbacks to my first dalliance with fretless bass in my youth , thirty years ago!

Edited March 4, 2014 by Dingus

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1393937606' post='2385979']
Hi Sara

As it sounds like you have noticed already, there is not a huge amount of choice in fretless basses at the less expensive end of the market. The plain fact is that fretless bass is a fairly maligned instrument nowadays in most genres of popular music, so manufacturers are catering to a pretty low level of demand.That said, there are still some pretty good affordable alternatives out there .

When you say you you aren't that keen on a Jaco style bass , is that specifically Jazz Basses you are set against, because if you are willing to consider a Precision style bass, this could be a likely contender:




I haven't played one of these myself, but the ESP LTD range has a very good reputation , and for under three hundred quid I think you will struggle to do better, providing you can cope without lines on the board. It's got a solid alder body , maple neck with a thin "U" profile and rosewood fingerboard, so , on paper at least , it ticks all the boxes to give a proper Fender-like sound and feel. That P+J pickup configuration is very versatile, can still sound pretty modern, depending on how you play it, if you want to allude to the 1980's- style players you mention , and a Fender-style bass will feel pretty familiar to you , which is always a good start.

If I am being brutally honest, I think you may struggle with the intonation more than you may think without lines, not least of all because for all but the most capable of players correct intonation on fretless bass is a struggle even[i] with[/i] the aid of lines, but in the end the decision is yours and don't let my personal prejudices influence you . Some people find lines more helpful than others do, and if you are buying the bass primarily to experiment with at home and in the studio then you have got time to practise with it and adjust to not having frets( or lines. )

Anyhow, it's great that you are interested in playing fretless bass, because it's such an appealing-sounding instrument . I have recently started playing fretless again myself after a long lay-off, and I am enjoying it immensely, except for the fact that it is giving me flashbacks to my first dalliance with fretless bass in my youth , thirty years ago!
[/quote]
Never mind the OP....where can I find one of these!

Looks the bomb.

[Dingus]

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1393939094' post='2386002']
Never mind the OP....where can I find one of these!

Looks the bomb.
[/quote]

ESP LTD Vintage 214 fretless. It's a brand new model. I nearly bought one myself , but opted for a Lakland instead.

£283 from most retailers . This is the fretted version ( no fretless examples on YT yet) , and it sounds like a proper Fender to me:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGcZNsES-MU

[White Cloud]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1393939534' post='2386015']
ESP LTD Vintage 214 fretless. It's a brand new model. I nearly bought one myself , but opted for a Lakland instead.

£283 from most retailers . This is the fretted version ( no fretless examples on YT yet) , and it sounds like a proper Fender to me:

[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aGcZNsES-MU[/media]
[/quote]
At that price it appears to be a steal. I may well look into this bass...looks like a nice affordable option to the Fender Tony Franklin (my personal favourite F bass!).

Nice one Mr Dingus.

[Dingus]

Glad to be of help!

[muttley]

That LTD is a cracking looking bass. Mr Dingus, you are guilty of giving me a GAS attack .

[Sara SG]

Wow, Ive never joined a forum like this (thanks to my pal Roger for recommending) I've just checked in and seen all the replies! Thank you all so much. I will check out every single one of those models. I've already scoured Denmark St and the Bass Show for models to try out. But as Dingus pointed out earlier they seem to be very thin on the ground. I've been monitoring ebay all year and am only finding suitable ones in Scotland and Wales. Would never buy without trying! And I don't think its too much to ask to find a fretless that isn't brown ? :-S There are so many flash guitars out there - why do designers think us bassists are so dull?
Yup I know I will be looking for chorus and octave pedals too (do they have to be Bass pedals, or a mate's guitar pedals do short-term?). I already have Bass Synth and Bass Big Muff pedals on my Precision.
Will try to find one with fretlines too to help with practice. I know its not going to be easy. Points noted about strings.
Im trying to get away from Precision for a change. I've tried a few Jazz basses and they are certainly easier to play and feel lighter than a Precision IMO, but I can't beat the sound of my Precision for my regular rock stuff.
I looked at this one, but the words Jazz and Jaco and tabacco brown are really not part of my world!
[b] Squier by Fender 2012 Vintage Modified Jazz Bass, Fretless, Sunburst[/b]

Such a shame there isn't a Pino signature ice blue fretless or something. I love his playing on the Numan stuff.
I go for an 80s style of music - hopefully fretless might make a comeback!
It was my birthday last week - still looking to treat myself

[Chris Sharman]

Just to throw a little more into the mix - I have just sold (on here) a Yamaha RBX370 active fretless which was very light weight and I could play it for hours without problems. It was replaced by a Westone Thunder 3 which seems to weigh the same as Neptune but was a personal 'need to have'.

The point of this is that the Yamaha was a de-fretted bass i.e. it started off as a standard RBX370 which some previous owner paid good money to have the thing de-fretted and set up beautifully for a novice fretless player (such as myself). Perhaps if you cant find a fretless you are comfortable with, and lord knows they are in short supply, perhaps you may find a fretted bass you are naturally comfortable with and have that de-fretted? Could be the solution?

Maybe?...

[Telebass]

There's also the Squier Vintage Modified Precision Fretless. £250 in Wunjos and weighs just UNDER 7 pounds. That's about as light a bass as you're ever likely to buy.

[EMG456]

Sara - there is a current fashion for bass players to use flatwound strings on all basses and a few on this thread have advised you to go that way.

Both of the players you have quoted as the sort of sound you are after used roundwound strings on their basses so bear that in mind.

I've played fretless regularly for longer than I care to remember now and apart from the set of black nylon tapewound strings which actually came fitted to my first fretless bass ("Oh look," said the drummer, "Ed's got a new bass and he hasn't taken the strings out of their packets yet!") a flatwound string has never been near any of my fretlesses and unless I have an unlikely change of heart, never will.

Only trouble is roundwounds will wear the fingerboard more quickly - you need to slightly treat it as a consumable and just have some work done to it every so often. If you only play it for a couple of songs a night, it'll be years before it needs it.

Also, the action on a fretless is crucial to generating the type of sound you want - lower action, more mwah, more sustain, higher action, less mwah, less sustain but a bit cleaner sounding. All need tied in to your own style of playing, how hard you hit the strings, where you like to pick etc - lots of variables and fantastic fun when you get it right.

Main thing is rejoice in the fretlessness of it and the punters seem to love it!

Cheers

Ed