Great bassists who have had a negative effect on modern bass?

[Jase]

[quote name='ARGH' post='233427' date='Jul 6 2008, 12:17 AM']Negative effect on Bass?

Probably Leo Fender,he started the problem.[/quote]

Just out of interest.... genuine question,who actually manufactured the first ERB?

[ARGH]

[quote name='Jase' post='233430' date='Jul 6 2008, 01:40 AM']Just out of interest.... genuine question,who actually manufactured the first ERB?[/quote]

Probably...and this isnt conclusive....If you are talking about a REALLY ERB instrument,Schack in 92. 10 string as a one off,given to Jonas Hellborg,to celebrate their 10th anniversary, But Bill Conklin's been putting out extra string 7s for quite a few years and made the 1st production 9 for Bill Dickens...Carl Thompson made the first 6. The race is on right now for the 13 (rumour is Baudins nearly finished,I think Cary Nordstrand has made the P/U's,and Gerry Goodmans able to make the strings,unless SIT are gonna make a custom set).

Thats a low G sharp folks.

I heard one guys got an 11 on the go in the UK which should be finished by now if the word is true,and Jims building another 9 for someone.

THIS ISNT TOPIC

Edited July 6, 2008 by ARGH

[Finbar]

Isn't the first ERB a 5 string? Rather than 6+? And do extra frets count as ERB? If so... how many? Because then a 4 string can be an ERB D:

And no, it isn't on topic ;p

I can't think of any bassists with negative effects that haven't been mentioned off the top of my head to be honest :/

[ARGH]

[quote name='Finbar' post='233437' date='Jul 6 2008, 02:15 AM']1,Isn't the first ERB a 5 string? Rather than 6+? And do extra frets count as ERB? If so... how many? Because then a 4 string can be an ERB D:

And no, it isn't on topic ;p

2,I can't think of any bassists with negative effects that haven't been mentioned off the top of my head to be honest :/[/quote]


Given that,Red Mitchell,tuning to 5ths is or was ERB,But seeing as a Guitar has 6 strings,and its only the orchestral link that Electric Bass (thats links me to the 'Leo' problem) convention says 4 strings,I put the bar at 7+.I think the 6 actually came first,but Im not supersure about that. But Im a zealot on a saturday night,Today is sunday.

2,Neither can I,There will always be someone that will copy a technique,or try to make a sound in a different fashion,some people will decry and some people will make a cornerstone of that style/ability.

Edited July 6, 2008 by ARGH

[endorka]

[quote name='ARGH' post='233461' date='Jul 6 2008, 09:52 AM']Given that,Red Mitchell,tuning to 5ths is or was ERB,But seeing as a Guitar has 6 strings,and its only the orchestral link that Electric Bass (thats links me to the 'Leo' problem) convention says 4 strings...[/quote]

In "The Eugene Cruft School of Double Bass Playing", he states the following about the double bass;

"Originally it was a powerful three-stringed instrument, but to increase the range a fourth string was added from about 1800, and nowadays most large orchestras include one or more five string-stringed basses."

That quote is from 1966. Low C extensions were common then also, as they are now.

Jennifer

[bnt]

[quote name='spog' post='233401' date='Jul 5 2008, 11:54 PM']Agreed. To me, double-thumbing is about as useful as tapping, what is the deal with this chapman stick thing? [/quote]
To be fair, the Chapman Stick was designed by a guitarist, and not specifically for bassists. I used to have one, thinking it would let me be "more than a bassist", but I came away thinking that the bass side was an afterthought. When you see a bassist like John Myung or Tony Levin using one they are, strictly speaking, using an incorrect Stick technique: what they're doing can be compared to a pianist playing a bassline on a piano with both hands.

Who do we blame for the rash of bad fretless playing in the early 80s? Mick Karn, Pino Palladino, or Paul Webb?

[ped]

I thought Ken Smith was one of the first to make ERBs?

[ARGH]

[quote name='ped' post='233478' date='Jul 6 2008, 10:45 AM']I thought Ken Smith was one of the first to make ERBs?[/quote]

If you are talking 7+,Bill Conklin was waaaaaay before,I believe,If you are talking 5s its possible,but Carls been building for longer,and the 6 was created in the mid 70s (Jackson says he had the idea for ages,but no one was willing to make it).

If Im right Ken's 1st 6 was for John Patitucci in 86 (Chick Corea's Elektrik band) he received it on the Sunday..and left his Jazz bass at home and did a 6 month tour,straight off with it. The Bass turns up for sale every now and then in the New York area.

Edited July 6, 2008 by ARGH

[Jase]

So it's ERB's as we know them today...around 86? and Low C as Jennifer mentioned 66?

[ARGH]

[quote name='Jase' post='233580' date='Jul 6 2008, 01:42 PM']So it's ERB's as we know them today...around 86? and Low C as Jennifer mentioned 66?[/quote]

It depends on what you want to call an ERB in the Electric Guitar sense. I go on the 7+,as 6 is really not unusual to see these days.Early 90s really.

Edited July 6, 2008 by ARGH

[Jase]

[quote name='ARGH' post='233595' date='Jul 6 2008, 01:29 PM']It depends on what you want to call an ERB in the Electric Guitar sense. I go on the 7+,as 6 is really not unusual to see these days.Early 90s really.[/quote]
True, I suppose there are a good many players using 6...7+ too probably...anyway back on topic, bass player that has had a negative effect on modern bass???? Can't think of any really, thing is I don't think of it as negative if a bass player is doing something different...like I mentioned earlier , people focus on the small things, that's the negative part.

[E_MaN]

Surely the type of music plays comes into the objectivness of the convorsation as well? For example, I really like the music from RHCP and I like Flea's lines and I appeciate him for what he is/does even though I do think he is overated but if someone doesn't like RHCP. As another example I cannot stand Billy Sheehans music from his bands or him and as such I cannot appeciate him.

But the hippie socialist side of me is getting out - arn't we all just trying to make music and have fun, even the famous bass players?

[alexclaber]

Blaming great bassists for having a negative effect on the myriad talentless hacks is akin to blaming Stirling Moss for boy racers.

Alex

[silverfoxnik]

[quote name='E_MaN' post='233627' date='Jul 6 2008, 03:47 PM']But the hippie socialist side of me is getting out - arn't we all just trying to make music and have fun, even the famous bass players?[/quote]
+1

[ARGH]

[quote name='silverfoxnik' post='233750' date='Jul 6 2008, 08:21 PM']+1[/quote]
+1 as well.

difference being they are famous,we are just working Joe's

[budget bassist]

[quote name='ped' post='233305' date='Jul 5 2008, 08:14 PM']Billy Sheehan(sp?) for me - not a fan personally, although I haven't listened to a lot of his work, but I think 'shredding' on a bass is tantamount to murder![/quote]
+10000000
I HATE Billy Sheehan's playing.

[quote name='Sarah5string' post='233362' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:27 PM']I agree with the Flea thing. I just don't get the 'thing' with him..[/quote]
He is overrated, but i think he's amazing, even if you don't like the music surely you can appreciate how technical his playing is?

Edited July 6, 2008 by budget bassist

[E_MaN]

In a turnaround to the convorsation - I think Michael Manring is possibly one of the best MUSICIANS in the world and composers - he truly is a master and obviously is a clever clogs to work out the tunings and stuff that he uses in his songs.

SO, what have the bass players mentioned brought to modern bass playing? I smell another thread coming on.....

[steve-soar]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='233299' date='Jul 5 2008, 08:07 PM']Yeah i used overdrive/fuzz loads when i was just starting, now i realise it sounds like crap and i've not used my overdrive pedal or wah for ages.

Also i think rob trujillo has had a negative effect on metallica, i think he influenced them towards the nu metal sort of side of things, though that could have been the fact that st anger was rushed due to his alcohol problem and numerous other things, we'll see how death magnetic turns out, not good though probably.[/quote]What a load of sh*t. Rob Trujilo didn't play a note on St Anger, it was Bob Rock.


[quote name='alexclaber' post='233644' date='Jul 6 2008, 04:42 PM']Blaming great bassists for having a negative effect on the myriad talentless hacks is akin to blaming Stirling Moss for boy racers.

Alex[/quote]Spot on.

[Finbar]

I think Trujillo (look at his credits) actually helped swing Metallica back towards their 80s roots which they are apparently exploring on Death Magnetic. But that is speculation on my part ;p

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='alexclaber' post='233644' date='Jul 6 2008, 04:42 PM']Blaming great bassists for having a negative effect on the myriad talentless hacks is akin to blaming Stirling Moss for boy racers.[/quote]

Well they all drive Scoobys, so I'm blaming Colin McRae (RIP) and Richard Burns (RIP).

Quickly back on to the subject of 27-string basses: Do you guys who own them ever take them out of the house? I just can't imagine getting a gig anywhere if I brought more strings to the audition than the guitarist. I did have a Warwick 6 for a while but there was only one band I could ever play it with and I already had my feet snugly under their table when I bought it.

[ARGH]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='233895' date='Jul 7 2008, 05:47 AM']Quickly back on to the subject of 27-string basses: Do you guys who own them ever take them out of the house? I just can't imagine getting a gig anywhere[/quote]
Yes we do,We put them in cases,like you,but they are slightly bigger.

[Faithless]

[quote name='budget bassist' post='233299' date='Jul 5 2008, 10:07 PM']Also i think rob trujillo has had a negative effect on metallica, i think he influenced them towards the nu metal sort of side of things, though that could have been the fact that st anger was rushed due to his alcohol problem and numerous other things, we'll see how death magnetic turns out, not good though probably.[/quote]


I can agree with the beginning, but - "alcohol and numerous other things"??? WTF, bro? Rob was never known about having ANY problems with alcohol ( the one, who really did have, was James Hetfield..). The other thing- Rob didn't 'influenced' St.Anger album at all. cuz he came to them a bit too late(The very Bass was played by Bob Rock and James..)... Only DVD recording was made with Rob.

So, I see a couple of nonsenses here, bro

[sorry, i can't be silent, when i see word 'Tallica...]

[tauzero]

[quote name='ARGH' post='233904' date='Jul 7 2008, 07:57 AM']Yes we do,We put them in cases,like you,but they are slightly bigger.[/quote]
Except my 9-string, as that poses certain problems in case purchasing as the 9 strings are split between two necks.

For disservice to bass - James Jamerson, for making people believe that they should play Precisions with ten-year-old tapewound strings.

[Bilbo]

Tough question this because the conscious contributions that individuals have made through their playing has primarily been to the music they make and not to 'bass playing' per se. Any influence they have had on the bass play fraternity has been peripheral to their core business but, in some cases, has become greater than the popularity of their [i]actual[/i] music (Wooten is a great example).

But its not their fault. Our 'I want, I get' culture extends to musicianship as much as it does Nike trainers and X-Boxes. Learners like the sound of Flea, Fieldy, Jaco, Claypool and buy DVDs and 'tab' books that give them the secrets of how to play like their idols. Most bass playing is not that hard to execute; compared to a rudimentary piano piece, for instance, the technical chops required to play like Flea are a joke. The consequence is that bass players particularly can develop what appear to be quite sophisticated technical skills without having the education and discipline required to know [i]when[/i] to used them. The technical skills get applauded at jam sessions, gigs etc and the learner starts to receive affirmation about their developing technique and focusses on this aspect of their playing during their practice time. Not harmony, melody, rhythm, reading, orchestration or arranging - technique for its own sake.

The most negatively influential bass players are, therefore, the ones whose playing, when copied, delivers the WOW factor to a developing player without the need to study properly. The low input, high return stuff. I don't blame them; I blame the part of the industry that sells these superficial 'quick fix' solutions to gullible kids. [b]I blame the guy that invented 'tabulation'. [/b]

Remember: its not the notes that matter but the relationships between them.

[chris_b]

In my opinion Mark King has had a negative effect on modern bass playing! Undoubtedly he's a player with talent, though I think he's about as musical as a box of fireworks going off. The trouble is that he's influenced too many players who don't have the talent to slap. For that, HE deserves a slap!

The first "extended" range bass that I know of is the Danelectro 6 string that was being used in LA studios in the early 60's. The solo on "Wichita Lineman" used one of these. The Fender 6 string and the five string followed shortly after.