Little Bastard is just too little

[Thurbs]

I use the LB30 mostly for home practice and recording. It is the main reason I bought the amp in the first place and have both the matching 112 and 212 cabs to go with it. Sounds great and I am 100% happy.

The conventional wisdom on BC is that the LB is also a gigable amp, especially with the high sensativity matching cab. The thing is, it just isn't.

I have tried it in rehearsals, in small pub gigs, large gigs with PA support and it is simply too quiet. Every time I have to back off the bass, whack up the mid and trebble just to make out the notes I am playing. I have stuck a 30ft lead in, walked around the venue, so it is not the "your ancle can hear fine syndrome". There is no creamy room filling sonic boom, just clattery trebble or nothing. I have tried every possible EQ setting, stuck a active bass in the passive input and so on. Same result, massively overdriven and inaudible, or clanky....

If I try working with the PA, it means remembering to bring a large attenuator, turning it down to even more inaudable sound levels and having a good FOH sound, but relying on "the force" when playing, rather than hearing you are in the right key etc.

Anyway, the "loud" setup I have is a Ashdown Little Giant stuck in to a BFB Midget T. Great, light and loud setup which is great, but misses the character of valve based pre and power stages.

I play in blues, rock, soul, funk and pop bands, usually doing covers. Sometimes with sh*t loads of brass, sometimes with sh*t loads of guitar marshal 4x12's to contend with. So, my question is, would a 100W valve amp be loud enough, or would 200w or 300w be needed? I don't play the O2, mostly pubs, halls, clubs to about 300 or so. If doing festivals etc, then it's back to pedal board & IEMs.

I am not that interested in hybrids. Had a few of them and they never "quite" hit the spot if you know what I mean. In those scinarios I can use a Zoom B9.1ut pre-amp and go IEM anyway and put everying through the PA (with the inevitable monitoring problem for everyone else).

Oh, and "play quietly" or "turn down" is not somthing you can do when depping etc, so that isn't really an option.

Any help and advise from guys whom have giged all valve power amps in a large and loud ensemble would be very much apreciated.

[Roland Rock]

I have a 100w amp, and it has been fine for the majority of gigs I've done, even when I had a 2x10 cab. However, if you are playing with a 4x12 toting guitarist and a horn section, I'd say you'd be safer with a 200 watter

[funky8884]

100w will be ok if you have a very sensitive speaker and 2 or more of them.

[Alfie]

I had a LB30 and I agree, it isn't even close to a practical gigging amp, I didn't find out particularly useful as a monitor when I had Pa support either. I don't play in a loud band.

I always got the feeling that part of the hype about the LB30 was related to people trying to justify the money they had spent.

I now use a Fender Bassman Pro 100T. It suits my bends pretty well; considering I haven't really pushed it, I think it can handle a bit more. It certainly doesn't seem quiter than a 500w hybrid, but that is subjective.

What I liked about the 100T, that wasn't available on the 300w model, was the ability to switch output to 25w for recording, or home practice.

[Dad3353]

[quote name='Thurbs' timestamp='1389790158' post='2337883']...Any help and advise from guys whom have giged all valve power amps in a large and loud ensemble would be very much apreciated.[/quote]

Good afternoon, Thurbs...

200w of valve amp, in appropriate cabs, will quite certainly be capable of filling just about any stage area with clean bass, whatever the 'competition'. It will also, however, be total overkill for rehearsals and smallish pubs. The weight of these beasts is considerable. If you're wanting clean headroom only ('dirt' comes from pedals...), one may turn down; if however, you need the 'grind' from pushed o/p valves, the sheer volume will be far too much for practice or small gigs. There are few attenuators for valve amps of this size, and no cheap ones.
We use a Hiwatt PA head (DR203, 4 x KT88, 200w...), which will stay 'clean' up to concrete-crumbling levels. It remains musical in our tiny rehearsal room. We never require 'grind', and if we did, would get it from pedals. It weighs over 50 kgs in its flight case; impossible to lift alone (or even move, without wheels...). Fantastic bass, everywhere ( for what we play; pop/rock covers...), but at a price.
Hope this helps...

Edited January 15, 2014 by Dad3353

[franzbassist]

It's amazing how different people's experiences are...

I gigged my LB30, in a Weller/Jam tribute band, with Ashdown 2x10 and 1x15 cabs and PA support in pubs and clubs for 18 months without any problem .

[dan670844]

I have used my LB30 at some very reasonably sized venues. It really depends on what the stage monitoring is like. If you are in london for example and playing the circuit like the vibe bar, 33 feet east, Mother,for example. Generally the on stage monitoring is great. That is where the LB30 comes into its own as the transformer derived DI comes out through monitoring. I have also used the LB30/LB212 on its own and it just about got there, but we are a very quiet band. If I use the LB30 with a CL610 it will cut it for on stage monitoring. But I might as well just bring all of my big amp setup. The LB30 will not fill a venue with bass though I agree, without help...
I also think the midget cab you are using, is also helping cut though, with your other rig. I was watching a band the other day who was using one in at the O'neill's in Woking, Couldn't believe, how that little cab cut though ( was using a GB shuttle).
Stand alone gigs with little FOH or monitoring I think you would have to go old school, if you wanted all valve. 100-200 watts and a big old sensitive cab like a 6x10. Not for the faint hearted. I use a CTM300 and a 6x10 when called for.
The landscape is changing dramatically with PA systems. A lot of the big systems do not want much in the way of your own noise on stage. A lot of bands amps go into speaker boxes these days. The onstage sound is that good and its much easier to get a balance. Most of the big touring bands do this. The amp is very often perched on the cab, but the cab is just for show or only putting out at a low level. The main feed is coming from an Iso box or the DI.

Edited January 15, 2014 by dan670844

[dannybuoy]

The 100W should do the trick - but there's a bargain £795 CTM300 on the 'bay at the moment: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251419070436?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

Shame it's pickup only and miles away from you though!

FWIW I had an AD200 and never had a problem filling a large room and even played outside with it once and it was nowhere near struggling, I reckon I could've got away with half the amount of power.

Edited January 15, 2014 by dannybuoy

[badboy1984]

I haven't gigged with my LB30 yet ....... most of gig i was DI from a MXR M80 and use the venue bass amp as monitor. The venue bass amp is nowhere loud as my LB30.

[EliasMooseblaster]

[quote name='walbassist' timestamp='1389792426' post='2337928']
It's amazing how different people's experiences are...

I gigged my LB30, in a Weller/Jam tribute band, with Ashdown 2x10 and 1x15 cabs and PA support in pubs and clubs for 18 months without any problem .
[/quote]

Perhaps this is the root of the problem, though - you're trying to sound like Bruce Foxton (and I'm trying to sound like John Entwistle), so plenty of grit and low-mid clank is fine for us. Sounds like the OP wants more emphasis on thick, booming bottom end. Admittedly I often end up cutting the lows on mine, but I can see how 30W might struggle to produce that really deep bass cleanly.

[badboy1984]

For thick booming low the LB30 will run of headroom really quick. When I at gig with PA support, i leave all the booming low tone for the sound guy to dial in. I'm more focus on hearing myself onstage with the decent tone. I'm not in a loud band so the LB30 will more then enough for my needs, but if you want booming low end, loud band and playing with a loud guitarist with valve amp and 4x12 cab, then good luck hearing yourself.

[magee]

My experience was the same I'm afraid. I've never had a better sound than the LB30 but it just couldn't cut it with a not-too-loud one guitar blues band. It's a real shame. I felt that even a 50 or 60-watter would have done it.

I loved how light it was, while still having a valve output stage and would love someone to do something between this and the heavy 100 watters.

Matthew

[Merton]

[quote name='dannybuoy' timestamp='1389796761' post='2338002']
The 100W should do the trick - but there's a bargain £795 CTM300 on the 'bay at the moment: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/251419070436?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649"]http://www.ebay.co.u...984.m1423.l2649[/url]

Shame it's pickup only and miles away from you though!
[/quote]

Bloody hell that is a bargain!

I haven't yet gigged mine but I'd wager the CTM100 is man enough for you. I'd sell the LB cabs though and get a second Midget...

[dan670844]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1389803009' post='2338083']
Bloody hell that is a bargain!

I haven't yet gigged mine but I'd wager the CTM100 is man enough for you. I'd sell the LB cabs though and get a second Midget...
[/quote]

Plus 1 to this I think the CTM100 is the one to go for, its not too heavy and the foot print is smaller than the CTM300. If you have a sensitive enough cab that is capable of handling the lows these amps produce then It will defo cover everything. I have a CTM300 its stupid loud through the CL610 cab I use. CTM100 would have been a better option, but they were not available when I decided to buy.

[Thurbs]

Thanks for all the advice guys, really apreciate it. I will let you know what I go for.

[RandomBass]

Smaller footprint? I'd always assumed the CTM100 and CTM300 used the same case.
Interesting.

Cheers

Geoff

[dan670844]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1389891498' post='2339212']
Smaller footprint? I'd always assumed the CTM100 and CTM300 used the same case.
Interesting.

Cheers

Geoff
[/quote]

100 is about 20% smaller all around and lighter the 300 is one big mutha, it has huge transformers, 30kgs or so. I dont care these are the best sounding amps out there. To me the tone and the feel of the amp is my primary selection point. I try every amp that comes out SS and Valve. It hasnt been bested yet. I have had loads of amps some high wattage jobs the 300 is by far the loudest i have had. The BTA or 427 they are even bigger.... I cant see the point of the 427 total overkill

[dan670844]

[quote name='Merton' timestamp='1389803009' post='2338083']


Bloody hell that is a bargain!

I haven't yet gigged mine but I'd wager the CTM100 is man enough for you. I'd sell the LB cabs though and get a second Midget...
[/quote]

Be careful when selecting cabs, just like a 70's SVT these amps chew up speakers, I reckon these will do them quicker. Speaker wise the best is probably the trusty eminence BP102, or something that can handle a good low range ie 3012lf not 3012ho

[Ashdown Engineering]

The LB30 was never designed to be a gigging amp! Buy a CTM 100 or 300... Those are the giggable valve amps,,, ;-)

[badboy1984]

I think many people misunderstood about the LB30. It can probably do a small venue gig like Ashdown says on the website.

[i]"[color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]Rebellious, uncompromising and cool as f***, James Dean - and the car he nicknamed the Little Bastard - are the inspiration for this iconic, all-tube mini bass amp head. Rated at 30-Watts, the Little Bastard won't rip your head off, but its EL84-equipped power section is more than capable enough for small gigs. And, of course, it won't put your back out on the way."[/size][/font][/color][/i]

[color=#000000][font=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif][size=3]I don't think it will handle large venue or stadium gig .......[/size][/font][/color]

Edited January 17, 2014 by badboy1984

[Grissle]

Having a lot of efficiant speaker cone area is absolutely essential when gigging small amps unfortunately. An 8x10 or 2x15 with an Ampeg B-15 for example won't shake the rafters but can just hang in there pretty wellt. The best solutions are to either mic the amp. Or use a speaker level cabinet DI, which is inserted between the amps speaker jack and cabinet. Nice units like a Palmer 05 work beautifully, but others such a H&K Red Box are affordable and on the 4x12 setting work pretty well also.

Edited January 17, 2014 by Grissle

[Merton]

[quote name='Ashdown Engineering' timestamp='1389913649' post='2339609']
The LB30 was never designed to be a gigging amp! Buy a CTM 100 or 300... Those are the giggable valve amps,,, ;-)
[/quote]

I concur. I love my new (to me) CTM100

[quote name='dan670844' timestamp='1389907328' post='2339509']
Be careful when selecting cabs, just like a 70's SVT these amps chew up speakers, I reckon these will do them quicker. Speaker wise the best is probably the trusty eminence BP102, or something that can handle a good low range ie 3012lf not 3012ho
[/quote]

I think the BF cabs will be fine

[RandomBass]

I used my LB30 with a BF S12 for several gigs in small/medium pubs without needing more, in a rock/pop covers band. I've also used the DI, but only needed a little injection into the PA at larger venues. I don't think a speaker level DI is needed - the LB30 DI is taken from it's own winding on the output transformer, so you get all the goodness.

Cheers
Geoff

[goonerjoe]

My LB30 sounded loud at home, and I thought it would be just about loud enough to rehearse and gig with. Being in a noisy punk band with a very loud drummer, it didn't even come close. Very disappointed at first as the general consensus was it could be gigged with (even with the DI I lost a lot of low end and it sounded a bit naff).

However, for home practise and especially recording it is awesome. Our recording engineer liked it so much he ordered two of them on the spot.

And it looks totally awesome.

[Grissle]

[quote name='RandomBass' timestamp='1389968735' post='2340097']
I used my LB30 with a BF S12 for several gigs in small/medium pubs without needing more, in a rock/pop covers band. I've also used the DI, but only needed a little injection into the PA at larger venues. I don't think a speaker level DI is needed - the LB30 DI is taken from it's own winding on the output transformer, so you get all the goodness.

Cheers
Geoff
[/quote]

Well there you go then! 2x12 for small gigs, Big one for medium gigs and the great built in DI for Big gigs.