How do you learn songs?

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389095378' post='2329751']
Stop being so precious, a lot of the time it really doesn't matter.
[/quote]

It matters to me - arguably the most important critic of all.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1389095968' post='2329764']
It matters to me - arguably the most important critic of all.
[/quote]

Which is exactly as it should be, but musically a lot of the time it only works if the rest of your band are as pedantic as you.

[mcgraham]

I generally listen to the song 4 or 5 times on loop without stopping or even trying to hum along with it - just absorbing.

Then I listen to the song 4 or 5 times on loop and try to hum/sing/play along but without ever stopping the song - just seeing if I can lock into what was there after the first few passes of listening, even if I screw up it keeps playing.

Then I listen to the song 4 or 5 times but stopping and going over tricky bits again and repeating til it's passable, so takes a fair bit longer. The point being it fills in the blanks and troubleshoots to the point that...

I can then sing/play along with the song on the recording without stopping, from which point I stop using the recording except for references.

Some songs take less listens than each round, but generally it seems to fall into that sort of camp. It's a logical teaching progression from not knowing a song through to being able to play it without any help from a track.

[DaytonaRik]

And after a few beers at 11:00 Joe Punter isn;t going to notice too much...unless they play as well! However, that's not an excuse not to get it as close to perfect as you can.

[discreet]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1389096415' post='2329772']
Which is exactly as it should be, but musically a lot of the time it only works if the rest of your band are as pedantic as you.
[/quote]

My covers bands have [i]never [/i]been as pedantic as me - that's the problem. Not enough pedants.
Otherwise known as 'people who can be bothered to get things right'.

Edited January 7, 2014 by discreet

[KevB]

I still like GuitarPro. I don't use it exclusively and I wouldn't go into a gig cold having learned something from a GP file and never hearing the 'original'. I [i]always[/i] track down some recording or other of the song to have a good listen to as well. I've only recently started using youtube tutorials and some of these are very useful as well. When there are multiple bassist's attempts at the same tune its interesting to see just how different some of them are in terms of complexity and approach. It's nice to have some back-up confirmation of what you think you are hearing is also what someone else thinks is the right thing too.

[pnefc42]

Tascam Basstrainer!!!

[ubassman]

[quote name='pnefc42' timestamp='1389099052' post='2329823']
Tascam Basstrainer!!!
[/quote]

+1 They are great for those difficult passages where you can loop a section, slow it down, cut the original bass completely out of the mix , and DI your bass into the unit, listen through headphones or amp, make a set playlist - great little peice of kit. I personally like the old black ones rather than the new ones.

Easy to input any MP3 and you are away.

[Guest bassman7755]

Learn to hum/sing it reasonable well before attempting to play it. Otherwise your learning muscle movements and not music (IMO).

[Dad3353]

[quote name='bassman7755' timestamp='1389099989' post='2329845']
Learn to hum/sing it reasonable well before attempting to play it. Otherwise your learning muscle movements and not music (IMO).
[/quote]

Hmm... We're not going to get along very well, methinks. I'm a drummer. Any opinions on how I/we learn songs..?

[ubassman]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389100301' post='2329851']
Hmm... We're not going to get along very well, methinks. I'm a drummer. Any opinions on how I/we learn songs..?
[/quote]

....OOhhh Douggie ....where do we begin on that one

I find actually humming or singing a line in a song is actually really helpful in committing the track to memory - it really helps on more complicated music before I start looking at the dots.

[Dad3353]

I wasn't concerned with melodic instruments; more the percussive side. Although there is a whole art form to certain oriental rhythms, passed from generation to generation by vocalism, modern drumming lends itself poorly to this, ime. Ears are a good starting point, imo, and dots, then 'muscle memory' training/repetition/exercise. I consider this to be part and parcel of 'musicianship'. Vocalising is necessary for singers, helpful for all others, but not (again, ime and o...) the be-all and end-all of music. Just sayin' (...but then again, I'm only a drummer; what would I know about music..? )

[JapanAxe]

Unless it is something very simple and repetitive I make as near a note-perfect transcription as I can (often omitting minor variations on repeats) and work from that. My reasons for doing this are
1. My brain is very oriented to visual patterns, so this helps me to learn the song.
2. Even if I end up not playing it, I have a part I can go back to an sight read at a later date.
3. Playing the original part forces me to play in ways that are sometimes outside my comfort zone.

I have no criticism of anyone else's methods, this just works for me.

[lojo]

Listen

Confirm any key changes with singer !!!!!!!

Jam along a few times get the structure and basic chords, roots and movements

Listen again once I know the above and write out structure on an index card, detailing any crucial timing parts, stops etc (i dont read so its in my own way of doing notes)

Improve line by learning correct fills and variations

[Mr Fretbuzz]

I've just managed to play 15 Buddy Holly songs from a book but I did find the odd mistake and although I've played them, I can't remember any of them for toffee :-( I do use tab sites but they are hit and miss. Learning Blurred Lines at the moment and the tab seems good although I did have to listen to the track and count where the notes were as it is syncopated. I bought another SRV book but found it too difficult and a ZZ Top book and managed to play a few of those. Got a Police and a Eric Clapton book on the way. I get broken down songs from my teacher too. I like to be able to play as authentic as I can but I'm told the secret is to break it down to get through the song and go from there adding to it etc.

Can't remember any song without looking at a sheet of music and/ or tab so I'd be useless in a band. I just play to songs for fun, to improve my timing, improve my count, improve my feel of the music and to improve my accurate length of notes. It's all good practice .I've started sticking some vids on utube recently of songs I've played as a record in case I want to go for a band and they want to see something.

[ubassman]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389101163' post='2329867']
Vocalising is necessary for singers, helpful for all others, but not (again, ime and o...) the be-all and end-all of music. Just sayin' (...but then again, I'm only a drummer; what would I know about music..? )
[/quote]

Gotcha , I can see that its different for non melodic instruments.

That said, the more complex music scores that I get through all have rehearsal marks where something changes such as the saxes coming in, or a tempo / time signature/ key change that kind of thing. I do a lot of counting sometimes for bars on end but I have to know where I am in the music so I come in at just the right time ...often just with a twiddly bit and then its back to counting again. I find its really useful to get the structure of the piece broken down into these identifiable chunks and learn the cues. So I guess the technique is listen and count as two distinct skills.

But what do I know about your art of drumming - I dumpy dum b ass player

[Dad3353]

[quote name='ubassman' timestamp='1389102431' post='2329911']...But what do I know about your art of drumming - I dumpy dum b ass player
[/quote]

[URL=http://www.smileyvault.com/][IMG]http://www.smileyvault.com/albums/CBSA/smileyvault-cute-big-smiley-animated-041.gif[/IMG][/URL]

[Happy Jack]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389101163' post='2329867']
I wasn't concerned with melodic instruments; more the percussive side. Although there is a whole art form to certain oriental rhythms, passed from generation to generation by vocalism, modern drumming lends itself poorly to this, ime.
[/quote]

You just walk round the park (in French, that's [i]parc[/i]) going "Doof, tish, da-doof doof tish, [i][b]boom [/b][/i]shagga-lagga-lagga [i][b]boom [/b][/i]shagga-lagga-lagga [i][b]boom [/b][/i]shagga-lagga-lagga [b]BOOM[/b]".

Or whatever.

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389101163' post='2329867']
I wasn't concerned with melodic instruments; more the percussive side. Although there is a whole art form to certain oriental rhythms, passed from generation to generation by vocalism, modern drumming lends itself poorly to this, ime. Ears are a good starting point, imo, and dots, then 'muscle memory' training/repetition/exercise. I consider this to be part and parcel of 'musicianship'. Vocalising is necessary for singers, helpful for all others, but not (again, ime and o...) the be-all and end-all of music. Just sayin' (...but then again, I'm only a drummer; what would I know about music..? )
[/quote]

I used to be in a band with a very good drummer who "vocalised" as he played - a mixture of the lyrics and rhythmic sounds during the instrumental sections - which he used to guide him through the various sections of the songs. Never noticed until we were in the studio and someone solo'd the overhead mics!

[KevB]

I tried to learn stuff by osmosis but trying to explain the soggy state of the copy of 'Yes Complete' when handing it back to the public library and the fact the bath was never really big enough made me have a rethink. Just as well this was pre-laptop days, could have electrocuted myself...

[highwayone]

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1389093371' post='2329712']
Tru dat - but if the purpose of your covers band is to entertain punters who already know the songs, then they will know them from the 'original' recordings and will be expecting to hear those versions.

When I see covers bands who deviate from the 'originals' I just think that they haven't put the work in and am generally disappointed. I know some bands like to imagine they are being 'creative' by doing their own 'versions' - but my view is that if you want to do that then why not write your own bloody songs and have hits with them yourself??

I admit I'm a bit of a control freak, though - I'm invading Poland on Saturday, anyone want to come along?
[/quote]

EXACTLY!! Some covers bands just do watered down pi$$ poor versions and it boils down to idleness and thinking that 'near enough is good enough!'

[highwayone]

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1389085191' post='2329615']
Don't get obsessed with playing exactly the original bassline.

In many cases it will be entirely appropriate to play a precise note-for-note reproduction, but there will also be plenty of cases where it does NOT make sense.

I don't try to replicate the original bassline to [i]Don't Be Cruel[/i] (Elvis Presley) because my band has no piano. The bassline I play is a synthesis of Bill Black's double bass and the pianist's left hand.

The bassline to[i] Play That Funky Music[/i] (Wild Cherry) is anything but funky, in fact it's crap. So I play a funky bassline which actually works better than the original (in my ever-so-humble opinion ) but I play the original bassline under the guitar solo just to show that I do actually know it.

Etc. etc. etc.
[/quote]

Thanks for that, I agree with you on that as some songs where I've learnt the original basslines they sound crap because one of the band isn't playing the original part.

[highwayone]

Thanks all for the comments, I'm probably getting too OCD about some of the songs as I'm new to this lark! Being a drummer I know when to take out bits that don't work as they do on the original and when to leave them in so I guess I need to apply that mindset to bass! Cheers

[Guest bassman7755]

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1389100301' post='2329851']
Hmm... We're not going to get along very well, methinks. I'm a drummer. Any opinions on how I/we learn songs..?
[/quote]

I use a drum machine so I only need to punch the rhythm in once .

I think the intricacies of drumming are more somewhat more visceral. I imagine its got more in common with how dancers learn routines than how people play pitched instruments.

Learning a melody though is fundamentally learning pitches, so IMO thats the primary thing to learn, you then turn those remembered pitches to frets/strings as you play.

Edited January 7, 2014 by bassman7755

[Pete Academy]

If it's a song you're unfamiliar with, it helps to play it until it's stuck in your head. I used to use a Tascam bass trainer. The most useful feature is being able to loop parts over and over. This is great if you can't uite get a certain riff or note.