Immo Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 (edited) "Are abitrary opinions dangerous?" or "Another thing that makes Basschat.co.uk a great site for bass players!" One thing struck me today while I was browsing the Polish forum for bass players: there are some old (in terms of length of their "career" with bass) bassists, who love to give their arbitrary opinions without the sacramental "In My Humble Opinion". People who are young and inexperienced will Google some troubling questions and they will be directed to that forum and there they will discover that a guys who's been playing bass for ~12 years are saying pretty gems like: - "X type of effect = [explicit word for "homosexuals"]" - "one mustn't practice with effect pedals" - "playing with pick is for weak and punk rockers" - "replace your bridge with X, your pickup with Y and strings with Z, remove the pickguard, and maybe your bass will have at least decent sound" - "that X bass will sound well only with Y genre" - "X is the only genre worth playing" All are actually stated somewhere on the forum. I'll be damned. But here on Basschat I haven't noticed much of those personal opinions that are presented like they were Absolute Immanent Truth. And that's another thing that's really cool about you guys! Anyway, what are other arbitrary opinions of that kind you think are specifically dangerous for young, innocent and - above all - inexperienced players? Do you think it's really dangerous? Edited November 30, 2013 by Immo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 It happens quite often that people recite, as opinion, stuff they read on TalkBass or heard someone say down the pub. One thing that bothers me a little is reviews of cabs based on trying them in the shop, or in the the living room. The only way to form a truly useful real-world opinion is to gig it in a variety of situations and see how it fares. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gjones Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Over the years there's been a few opinionated a**holes on BC. They can be quite amusing. But they usually don't stay around for very long. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 It is the internet and you can only take at face value the position the poster purports to have .. They may even be repeating an adoptive POV that they have read elsewhere and they haven't themselves managed to get beyond the bedroom I am sure you'll find that sort of thing here.... but generally those aren't hard to spot or suss.. How much it all matters..????? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immo Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1385830225' post='2292641'] (...) They may even be repeating an adoptive POV that they have read elsewhere and they haven't themselves managed to get beyond the bedroom [/quote] No, I'm talking about experienced players who're simply a bit snotty. One of the "opinions" I posted above was from a guy who's an owner of a recording studio. He considers only a one Jazz Bass configuration to be "worthy" (specific hardware, no pickguard etc.) and others "don't sit well in the mix", he says (and thus he has 4 JB's, each set up in an identical way, one of them fretless). I consider that to be a dangerous opinion as it sometimes discourages players form trying and looking for their own sound and equipment configuration. [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1385830225' post='2292641'] (...) How much it all matters..????? [/quote] I guess it matters, when their opinions will be spotted by a beginner who'll read them out of context (like, when he'll see only a fragment in Google search results. He'll be wondering if he should, for example, play with pick, and he'll ask Google and will see some fragments of posts suggesting that pick playing is for "suckers" and will be quite sure it's a wide opinion. Personal story (not about the bass, though): I met a boy once, from a family who collect vintage cars. He said that Chevrolet Chevelle (that I liked at that time, but simply for the looks) is a weak car with nothing to offer. After I started to become more interested in parameters and data, I discovered Chevy Chevelle to be one of the most popular muscle cars... and quite powerful, too. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 It's possibly cos a lot of us are british and have an inbuilt aversion to that kind of pretension! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beer of the Bass Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385829755' post='2292638'] It happens quite often that people recite, as opinion, stuff they read on TalkBass or heard someone say down the pub. [/quote] I don't mind that so much, just as long as it is presented as opinion. I'm less keen when those regurgitated opinions are presented as FACT (usually in block capitals), as "myths debunked" or as some sort of pseudo-scientific "proof" in a discussion. This is a common ocurrence on a number of internet forums. I've nothing against a bit of conjecture in a discussion if it's not masquerading as anything else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immo Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1385831896' post='2292663'] I don't mind that so much, just as long as it is presented as opinion. I'm less keen when those regurgitated opinions are presented as FACT (usually in block capitals), as "myths debunked" or as some sort of pseudo-scientific "proof" in a discussion. This is a common ocurrence on a number of internet forums. I've nothing against a bit of conjecture in a discussion if it's not masquerading as anything else. [/quote] That's exactly what I'm trying to say: no [i]IMHO[/i]'s, no [i]I think, that[/i]'s, no [i]I'd suggest you[/i]'s - just simple statements without any argument, that may be viewed by an inexperienced person as a widespread opinion that goes without saying among the people who are more knowledgeable. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1385831896' post='2292663'] I don't mind that so much, just as long as it is presented as opinion. I'm less keen when those regurgitated opinions are presented as FACT (usually in block capitals), as "myths debunked" or as some sort of pseudo-scientific "proof" in a discussion. This is a common ocurrence on a number of internet forums. I've nothing against a bit of conjecture in a discussion if it's not masquerading as anything else. [/quote] It's not, though - I often hear descriptions of amps by people who haven't played 'em, without them actually acknowledging the fact. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385832722' post='2292674'] It's not, though - I often hear descriptions of amps by people who haven't played 'em, without them actually acknowledging the fact. [/quote] I just take whatever you say as gospel though! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Protium Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385832722' post='2292674'] It's not, though - I often hear descriptions of amps by people who haven't played 'em, without them actually acknowledging the fact. [/quote] I'd love to try out a Hartke amp, but I've never found one that works... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1385833283' post='2292681'] I just take whatever you say as gospel though! [/quote] I believe what I say sometimes,too. I'll never learn.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385829755' post='2292638'] It happens quite often that people recite, as opinion, stuff they read on TalkBass or heard someone say down the pub. One thing that bothers me a little is reviews of cabs based on trying them in the shop, or in the the living room. The only way to form a truly useful real-world opinion is to gig it in a variety of situations and see how it fares. [/quote] Damn, I know what you mean - and I'm now left trying to remember the name of that Amercian lad, he of the big opinions; nope, it's gone! I think we're all in danger of this. I mean, this is how people learn - from engaging with one another; and we may learn some of the wrong things too, it's only natural. And, of course, with such a big site we find we have a mix of people - and some are still learning, neatly explaining why the old debates never seem to go away; it's because they're always new to someone Still, we do what we can - and I think, on the whole, we all do a good job of calling issues out and talking them through Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LukeFRC Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1385833351' post='2292683'] I believe what I say sometimes,too. I'll never learn.... [/quote] The thing that snapped me out of it was when you were raving about the RH450.... I went and tried one....! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wateroftyne Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1385833973' post='2292697'] The thing that snapped me out of it was when you were raving about the RH450.... I went and tried one....! [/quote] *holds up hands* My experience with the RH450 taught me a lesson - to reserve judgement until the honeymoon period is over. I had to do a lot of backtracking on that one... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Japhet Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 I think some people just love to see their opinion out there as if it is fact. Remember, we are in the realms of Youtube and similar with the constant assertions that Cliff Burton is 'best'...no, it's Victor Wootten... no, it's Jaco....no, it's James Jamerson, with all of it stated as if it is undisputed fact. I like to think Basschatters are a lot more open minded. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flyfisher Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1385830225' post='2292641'] It is the internet and you can only take at face value the position the poster purports to have .. [/quote] Indeed. As was the case before the internet. It's a life experience thing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immo Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 The only fault on my part is that I express my opinion on Behringer stuff, often without any arguments... I guess when an amp dies after 1 minute of playing, a person could be prejudiced, especially when hearing some similar news from colleagues. But anyway, I apologise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='Immo' timestamp='1385835829' post='2292736'] The only fault on my part is that I express my opinion on Behringer stuff, often without any arguments... I guess when an amp dies after 1 minute of playing, a person could be prejudiced, especially when hearing some similar news from colleagues. But anyway, I apologise. [/quote] Is that arbitrary, though? Or simply relating your experience? I think it might be open to accusation if you said [i]all [/i]Behringers were poor; but I think you're allowed to recount your experiences, no? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DiMarco Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 Haha. Well It is the reader's own responsibility to judge the content whilst reading forums. There's a couple of rules of thumb though: When you ask "what is good for ..." most forumites will tell you what they have themselves. Not a lot of people (apart from those working in a guitarshop or writing reviews for magazines) have enough insight to be able to answer these kinds of questions. Keep that in mind. When asking (complaining) about technical issues with your gear, keep in mind that here also, half the people answering might not be knowledgable and are purely guessing or passing through info they read elsewhere. See a luthier / tech instead. This goes for almost any forum. Idea: have a technical questions section on bc where answers can be rated. The people answering these questions build up a score so the ones asking questions can roughly guess who they are dealing with. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1385834620' post='2292716'] Indeed. As was the case before the internet. It's a life experience thing. [/quote] Yes...it is all quite simple as far as I can see..... if you don't know then you need to get a reference you can sort of trust or not argue against and build up your own opinion ...then if that other persons opinion doesn't stack up with your own newly aquired experience or thinking, then you have your won building blocks... But the flip of this is that some get it totally wrong as well.. So..as I said... does it matter...? people either work it out for themselves or they don't and this will determine their own standing. Everyone has to learn but you should choose your teachers/influences/references carefully... and mayeb the internet nowdays is not the place to start. Getting in a band..getting good enough to play with better people, and then moving on from there as you may leave them behind is the way I'd try and do it... Which is why I don't form bands with mates and am not interested in re-forming old line-ups ... especially ones that have run their course.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BetaFunk Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='Immo' timestamp='1385829248' post='2292631'] "Are abitrary opinions dangerous?" or "Another thing that makes Basschat.co.uk a great site for bass players!" But here on Basschat I haven't noticed much of those personal opinions that are presented like they were Absolute Immanent Truth. [/quote] I'm sure that you'll notice a few if you look long enough. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gust0o Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1385848863' post='2292912'] I'm sure that you'll notice a few if you look long enough. [/quote] Unless that his arbitrary opinion that we don't have any? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Immo Posted November 30, 2013 Author Share Posted November 30, 2013 [quote name='BetaFunk' timestamp='1385848863' post='2292912'] I'm sure that you'll notice a few if you look long enough. [/quote] Of course. But never noticed it like, you know, a slippery fish hitting my face. [quote name='Gust0o' timestamp='1385849930' post='2292923'] Unless that his arbitrary opinion that we don't have any? [/quote] My arbitrary opinion is that Basschat.co.uk is a cool place. Kids! Start your accounts today and post daily! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LeftyBiskit Posted November 30, 2013 Share Posted November 30, 2013 No COMMENT!(sorry caps lock stICks from Time To time)- Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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