stingrayPete1977 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Triggers are a totally different onion, please dont lump them in with backing tracks! If someone actually triggers a sample or loop or whatever then the band can still interact and play off each other, no different to a drummer with an electric kit IMO. I hate seeing a band that are tied to the backing track all stiff and stuck to the format, you can tell me I am wrong thats fine I'm not listening Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380897425' post='2232126'] If everyone could stop telling me that my personal preferences are wrong, I'd be most grateful. [/quote] I'm with you on this.... you ( bands/performers ) can either play the piece and make it work or you can't. Being able to stretch out a song... take the feel elsewhere...ad lib a bit are also musical skills.... ramp it up... back it off, treat it differently on the spur of the moment..??? I even hate those vocalisers... I wouldn't be that offended if at an event where the 'band' used tracks, but then I wouldn't be taking any notice of them either. It is the same as a disco... doesn't stop me going and enjoying myself, I just don't give it any credence. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Karaoke.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowdown Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) I have been involved in many working situations, where additional enhancements have been used. For me it really depends on the quality of Instruments, and how they are blended in on the track/click track, Augmenting a track because of lack of musicians, like adding auxiliary percussion, adding [size=4]extra blowing/string instruments to pad out or fill in harmony blanks can work well,[/size] [size=4]Tucking in close harmony vocals, another winner. When this is all done with subtleness,[/size] [size=4]good arranging, [/size][size=4]and not over exposing things, [/size][size=4]It can really polish a tune.[/size] [size=4]The only problems for me, are when some folks have trouble playing in time with the click track.[/size] [size=4]Solo singers who need to work with tracks, are a visual turn off (to me) however good, and I lose interest,[/size] [size=4]but it don't seem to bother the paying Joe public, and I suppose, that's what matters.[/size] Edited October 4, 2013 by lowdown Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) [quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1380880970' post='2231802'] I'm going to go the other way I'm afraid Mart. The guy i used to play for wanted to use backing track drums and i refused to do it, if i can't play of the drums and interact with the band it's not for me, I'd rather do an acoustic version than a rock version with backing track drums :-( [/quote] Tomato,tomato Pete. Don't get me wrong I prefer live but the only way to get work up this way (it seems) is to be in 5 bands and if you're lucky you then get 3/4 gigs per month. Having hit the big 5-0 this year I no longer seem to have the time or the energy to mix that with the day job (plus the empty nest syndrome means less time for all the rehearsals And I need to keep swmbo happy). Moving Back to a duo seems an option into getting into the single act market and I'd rather be playing Saturdays this time of the year if only to get away from the bloody X Factor ;-) Edited October 4, 2013 by martthebass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted October 4, 2013 Author Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1380905840' post='2232323'] I wouldn't be that offended if at an event where the 'band' used tracks, but then I wouldn't be taking any notice of them either. It is the same as a disco... doesn't stop me going and enjoying myself, I just don't give it any credence. [/quote] I respect your point. If I had paid or expected to see a fully live band I would be a bit miffed if a duo with backing tracks turned up. On this basis selection and education of the pub/landlord is a prerequisite. Regarding the 'Credance' part I try and find the positives even if it's a singer with backing tracks and give the act the attention they command. I stopped being a musical snob many years ago, I have no choice I've played Brown eyed Girl AND Mustang Sally in the same set on the same night..... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 Ok at the risk of looking like a dick for a number of reasons, here are two tracks from the same gig. First is all live and improvised around a loose structure, the second is with a backing track containing loops, percussion and backing vocal on, the full band of vocal, drums, percussion, bass, keys, and sax is all playing on both. I know they are different songs but is the vibe lost on the backing track one? https://soundcloud.com/silddx/london-zulu-cora-player-live https://soundcloud.com/silddx/london-zulu-may-2012-umlhalho Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380894494' post='2232067'] ...unless you can think of a way of getting dead people to sing and dance... [/quote] They seem to manage it on The X Factor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1380917010' post='2232496'] They seem to manage it on The X Factor. [/quote] Brilliant Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1380916151' post='2232479'] I know they are different songs but is the vibe lost on the backing track one? [/quote] I'd say not. Mostly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbass116 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380882966' post='2231837'] I get it. I'm in a band with keys, sax and trombone. It does take extra work, but I don't find it difficult because we're all competent musicians and I find the results most satisfying. As far as I'm concerned, no backing track can make up for the sound in particular but also sight of someone playing the hell out of a saxophone, or nearly decapitating someone with a trombone slide It's got nothing to do with snobbery. For me, live music is a visual show as well as an aural one. I like watching people play instruments, observing the mechanics of playing, gear spotting and the like. I don't go to a gig expecting note perfect renditions of pre-recorded music. I expressed a preference for seeing people doing something to create the sounds I am hearing when I go see a live band. I don't understand what your problem is with that, it's an opinion and I do not think any less of anyone who has a different opinion to me. I'm not saying you're wrong, so I would appreciate it if you could afford me the same courtesy. You're coming across to me as rather overbearing and intolerant and I can't say that I care for it. [/quote] Sorry I think there's been a misunderstanding! I get where you're coming from completely. I love playing in big full bands! The first bands I ever played in were 14 piece jazz/soul bands so I know how good it sounds. In an ideal world where my band is playing major festivals and arenas with a decent budget then we'll bring in the best aux musicians possible, but any other time it just isn't practical, possible or worth the risk. Personally, I'm a stickler for perfection and unless I am convinced there are guys available who can play the parts, that we've had recorded by other pro musicians, absolutely perfectly, then I'll always opt for using the pre recorded sequences. The pre-recorded stuff is still all live instruments anyway. If we've got an industry showcase coming up and we can't get adequate players on the budget we have... we're not just going to wrangle up our mates to come and jam along. It needs to be clean cut/low risk which is where the sequences come in. I do honestly respect your opinion, don't get me wrong, so I'm honestly sorry if I came across as overbearing and intolerant as you said. Must've been a misunderstanding due to me being tired from all these damned sequenced gigs I've been doing... [i](Also you're right. There is nothing like getting whacked on the head by a Trombone slide... Hurts like a b**ch!)[/i] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neepheid Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='jamesbass116' timestamp='1380918918' post='2232527'] Sorry I think there's been a misunderstanding! I get where you're coming from completely. I love playing in big full bands! The first bands I ever played in were 14 piece jazz/soul bands so I know how good it sounds. In an ideal world where my band is playing major festivals and arenas with a decent budget then we'll bring in the best aux musicians possible, but any other time it just isn't practical, possible or worth the risk. Personally, I'm a stickler for perfection and unless I am convinced there are guys available who can play the parts, that we've had recorded by other pro musicians, absolutely perfectly, then I'll always opt for using the pre recorded sequences. The pre-recorded stuff is still all live instruments anyway. If we've got an industry showcase coming up and we can't get adequate players on the budget we have... we're not just going to wrangle up our mates to come and jam along. It needs to be clean cut/low risk which is where the sequences come in. I do honestly respect your opinion, don't get me wrong, so I'm honestly sorry if I came across as overbearing and intolerant as you said. Must've been a misunderstanding due to me being tired from all these damned sequenced gigs I've been doing... [i](Also you're right. There is nothing like getting whacked on the head by a Trombone slide... Hurts like a b**ch!)[/i] [/quote] Hey, no worries, it's already forgotten. Sorry if I was a bit over sensitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jamesbass116 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 (edited) [quote name='neepheid' timestamp='1380922619' post='2232582'] Hey, no worries, it's already forgotten. Sorry if I was a bit over sensitive. [/quote] Nahh it's fine mate! I was the one who got a bit [i]passionate [/i]I suppose you could say, so I should be the one apologising! haha. Water under the bridge. Edited October 4, 2013 by jamesbass116 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 4, 2013 Share Posted October 4, 2013 [quote name='martthebass' timestamp='1380914117' post='2232436'] Tomato,tomato Pete. Don't get me wrong I prefer live but the only way to get work up this way (it seems) is to be in 5 bands and if you're lucky you then get 3/4 gigs per month. Having hit the big 5-0 this year I no longer seem to have the time or the energy to mix that with the day job (plus the empty nest syndrome means less time for all the rehearsals And I need to keep swmbo happy). Moving Back to a duo seems an option into getting into the single act market and I'd rather be playing Saturdays this time of the year if only to get away from the bloody X Factor ;-) [/quote] The only venues around here where you would get gigs as a duo playing to backing tracks would be the (now empty) working mans clubs and the odd village pub where no one listens to the bands anyway, would you not rather go down the acoustic/folk/blues or something route than that? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 Up here in the whippet and flat cap North Pete those places still exist.....ok you have to like bingo but you get to see alternative cultures close up ;-). Folk/blues........I'd rather not comment :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Sounds like you have already decided to me then Mart? this is the sort of thing I have in mind, fiddling with the cd player etc. [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9_lOJAzluQ"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q9_lOJAzluQ[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 I didn't know anyone had posted that video of us on YT :-0 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stingrayPete1977 Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 At least only 14 people have watched it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bertbass Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Sorry, but I think that anyone using backing tracks is taking the piss, cheating and ripping off the audience, if you're not good enough to play it live then don't play it. Supported [font=Arial, sans-serif]The Rockin' Berries not so long ago, not only did they turn up late, but insisted on using their own P.A. just so the could use backing tracks. they ended up playing only a 30 minute set of 60s covers, not even their own hits, all with backing tracks and still walking away getting their full pay. [/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]At the same venue the following year, we supported the [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Abba tribute band Abba Arrival. Totally mimed the whole way through, full band as well. Pointless, unless they were incapable of actually playing it live. [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Both bands won't be playing at that venue again[/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]If you have to use backing tracks to make yourselves sound good, then give up and let those who can play live do the gigs.[/font] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1380975771' post='2233008'] [b]Sorry, but I think that anyone using backing tracks is taking the piss, cheating and ripping off the audience, if you're not good enough to play it live then don't play it.[/b] Supported [font=Arial, sans-serif]The Rockin' Berries not so long ago, not only did they turn up late, but insisted on using their own P.A. just so the could use backing tracks. they ended up playing only a 30 minute set of 60s covers, not even their own hits, all with backing tracks and still walking away getting their full pay. [/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]At the same venue the following year, we supported the [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Abba tribute band Abba Arrival. Totally mimed the whole way through, full band as well. Pointless, unless they were incapable of actually playing it live. [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Both bands won't be playing at that venue again[/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]If you have to use backing tracks to make yourselves sound good, then give up and let those who can play live do the gigs.[/font] [/quote] Jesus honestly, what a ridiculous narrow-minded and ill-conceived attitude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1380975771' post='2233008'] Sorry, but I think that anyone using backing tracks is taking the piss, cheating and ripping off the audience, if you're not good enough to play it live then don't play it. Supported [font=Arial, sans-serif]The Rockin' Berries not so long ago, not only did they turn up late, but insisted on using their own P.A. just so the could use backing tracks. they ended up playing only a 30 minute set of 60s covers, not even their own hits, all with backing tracks and still walking away getting their full pay. [/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]At the same venue the following year, we supported the [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Abba tribute band Abba Arrival. Totally mimed the whole way through, full band as well. Pointless, unless they were incapable of actually playing it live. [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Both bands won't be playing at that venue again[/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]If you have to use backing tracks to make yourselves sound good, then give up and let those who can play live do the gigs.[/font] [/quote] I wouldn't go this far... but the examples you saw and gave, doesn't do anyone any credit. The fact that they wont..??? be playing there again rather defeats all objects really. You really need to be asked back, even if the venue is one you wouldn't want to do again..you'd want it to be your decision rather than theirs. On the whole, I feel a small embellishment isn't the worst sin in the world, but if it is pretty much the maker of the track, I am less keen. Then again... if it was something you knocked up or had knocked up..and paid for, then ok.. but if you have just nicked it off the internet..??? hmmm very cloudy area, for me. For local little gigs, then I don't fancy it... and if you went to a TOP gig, like Moodonna, then more fool you to pay that money. As an aside...and I don't think I'll get many thanks for this... I have long suspected that Verdine Whites lines are flown in... and I think that has been the case for ages.... Edited October 5, 2013 by JTUK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
martthebass Posted October 5, 2013 Author Share Posted October 5, 2013 [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1380975771' post='2233008'] Sorry, but I think that anyone using backing tracks is taking the piss, cheating and ripping off the audience, if you're not good enough to play it live then don't play it. Supported [font=Arial, sans-serif]The Rockin' Berries not so long ago, not only did they turn up late, but insisted on using their own P.A. just so the could use backing tracks. they ended up playing only a 30 minute set of 60s covers, not even their own hits, all with backing tracks and still walking away getting their full pay. [/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]At the same venue the following year, we supported the [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Abba tribute band Abba Arrival. Totally mimed the whole way through, full band as well. Pointless, unless they were incapable of actually playing it live. [/font][font=Arial, sans-serif]Both bands won't be playing at that venue again[/font] [font=Arial, sans-serif]If you have to use backing tracks to make yourselves sound good, then give up and let those who can play live do the gigs.[/font] [/quote] You are entitled to your opinion, fotunately that is what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 (edited) [quote name='bertbass' timestamp='1380975771' post='2233008'] [font=Arial, sans-serif]Abba tribute band Abba Arrival. Totally mimed the whole way through, full band as well.[/font] [/quote] I agree that 100% miming is totally out of order. I accidentally found myself at a Freddie Mercury tribute appearance at our local the other week. Yes, I know. Obviously the backing music was recorded (it was a one-man show), but it became clear that 'Freddie' was miming and that his vocal performance was also on the backing track. All 'Freddie' had to do was wear a false moustache and ponce about with a mic stand, wearing 'that' jacket. Mind you, nobody else noticed and even if they had I'm sure they wouldn't have given a toss. Ketamine's a hell of a drug, isn't it? Edited October 5, 2013 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
timmo Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 Was Carter the Unstoppable Sex Machine wrong to use a backing track for the drums? Is that the sort of thing you are all talking about. I liked them, and didn`t feel it made any difference live or otherwise. I suppose if you are pretending you are doing it all, it is cheating the audience. If you are someone playing a guitar in the pub with backing tracks, I have enjoyed quite a lot of them I have seen, but I know what it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted October 5, 2013 Share Posted October 5, 2013 [quote name='timmo' timestamp='1381005671' post='2233409'] I suppose if you are pretending you are doing it all, it is cheating the audience. If you are someone playing a guitar in the pub with backing tracks, I have enjoyed quite a lot of them I have seen, but I know what it is. [/quote] It's a question of degree, obviously. But I'm sure there are quite a lot of grey areas, too. Mostly on our heads. Har, har. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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