The ol' "active v passive" debate

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379773556' post='2216648']
Why does everybody have such a problem reading a paragraph? ( I am currently fielding other complaints ). I just don't get it .

[/quote] because your posts are displaying really oddly with the line breaks in the wrong places and so on. Looking at you last post the open parenthesis of the "and couldn't" is on the line above, and the text seems to be trying to justify itself - which messes up the spacings - so everything has become spread out and your eye can't flow across the line easily.
So if you have the text justified try left aligning it, if you have to have it justified like it is increase the leading (line spacing) - or if you are using something like a phone or tablet which doesn't give you these options use line breaks more.

[LukeFRC]

Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.

[LukeFRC]

ah there you go Dingus .... can you try switching the editing mode button? (top left of the reply box) this mode will set your replies out in a nicer way and organise line breaks better.

[Dingus]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1379774642' post='2216662']
because your posts are displaying really oddly with the line breaks in the wrong places and so on. Looking at you last post the open parenthesis of the "and couldn't" is on the line above, and the text seems to be trying to justify itself - which messes up the spacings - so everything has become spread out and your eye can't flow across the line easily.
So if you have the text justified try left aligning it, if you have to have it justified like it is increase the leading (line spacing) - or if you are using something like a phone or tablet which doesn't give you these options use line breaks more.
[/quote]
[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1379774765' post='2216663']
Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consectetur adipisicing elit, sed do eiusmod tempor incididunt ut labore et dolore magna aliqua. Ut enim ad minim veniam, quis nostrud exercitation ullamco laboris nisi ut aliquip ex ea commodo consequat. Duis aute irure dolor in reprehenderit in voluptate velit esse cillum dolore eu fugiat nulla pariatur. Excepteur sint occaecat cupidatat non proident, sunt in culpa qui officia deserunt mollit anim id est laborum.
[/quote]
[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1379774844' post='2216664']
ah there you go Dingus .... can you try switching the editing mode button? (top left of the reply box) this mode will set your replies out in a nicer way and organise line breaks better.
[/quote]

WOAH THERE ! You are assuming[u] [i]way[/i][/u] too much much knowledge on my part , my friend ! As I have just been explaining on another thread , I have no idea what I am doing . I normally have other people do all my word processing for me . ( I have other people do most things for me nowadays , to be honest ) . I took me nine months to work out how to use emoticons , and figuring that out made me feel like I was a computer genius . It takes me all my time to justify my own existance . If I had to justify my text on Bassschat too , it would be too much effort to get out of bed anymore ,. I will see what I can do , but don't hold your breath . ( Just showing off my new-found skill with emoticons ) .

Edited September 21, 2013 by Dingus

[Conan]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379775585' post='2216669']
WOAH THERE ! You are assuming[u] [i]way[/i][/u] too much much knowledge on my part , my friend ! As I have just been explaining on another thread , I have no idea what I am doing . I normally have other people do all my word processing for me . ( I have other people do most things for me nowadays , to be honest ) . I took me nine months to work out how to use emoticons , and figuring that out made me feel like I was a computer genius . It takes me all my time to justify my own existance . If I had to justify my text on Bassschat too , it would be too much effort to get out of bed anymore ,. I will see what I can do , but don't hold your breath . ( Just showing off my new-found skill with emoticons ) .
[/quote]

That's cool D! I've been doing what a lot of people do on the internet, and assuming that everyone has a certain (usually similar to my own) level of skill on a computer.

For the record, mine is pretty poor - but I am (as you have seen) a bit of a pedant and grammar Nazi. I hate admitting that as it normally precedes my making a rather glaring syntax error, which someone will then take the piss about...

But, as a bit of advice (and I am genuinely trying not to appear patronising here!); any paragraph that is more than about four lines long is quite daunting to read. Breaking posts up into (almost) a series of bullet-points increases the readability enormously.

BTW (sorry for the text-speak, but I assume everyone knows that this means "by the way"?), I have had a considerable amount of training on this at work as part of my job is literacy co-ordinator for the Science Department. I am far from perfect though, and learn something new every day! We do a lot of work on producing text that is easy for kids with literacy difficulties (including dyslexia) to read. Even the use of the now ubiquitous Comic Sans font!

Anyway - back on topic...

When I have the active tone controls on my Status (only bass and treble) set flat, and then switch into passive mode, there is a noticeable change in the sound. I really wish it has a mid control though, which for me is the biggest advantage of active basses.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1379771588' post='2216624']
Also Lace seem to manage to produce a pickup (Alumitone) with almost no wire in it at all that operates at normal output levels without the need to boost the signal (and of course all the unwanted non-string noises that also get picked up and amplified).
[/quote]

The Lace Alumitones are an interesting pickup, as they are in effect a single turn coil formed by the body of the pickup. So they're ultra-low impedance, even compared to more conventional low impedance pickups like the active EMGs. They've got their own matching transformer built in to the body of the pickup to avoid the need for a dedicated preamp.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379775585' post='2216669']
WOAH THERE ! You are assuming[u] [i]way[/i][/u] too much much knowledge on my part , my friend ! As I have just been explaining on another thread , I have no idea what I am doing . I normally have other people do all my word processing for me . ( I have other people do most things for me nowadays , to be honest ) . I took me nine months to work out how to use emoticons , and figuring that out made me feel like I was a computer genius . It takes me all my time to justify my own existance . If I had to justify my text on Bassschat too , it would be too much effort to get out of bed anymore ,. I will see what I can do , but don't hold your breath . ( Just showing off my new-found skill with emoticons ) .
[/quote] two things you could do if you wanted to make your text slighlty easier to read...
1. You don't need a space before a punctuation mark. Look at these two examples and see how one scans easier.

I like bass , I play every day . Mainly on a warwick streamer , sometimes on a fender type bass . either a Precision or a jazz .

I like bass, I play every day. Mainly on a warwick streamer, sometimes on a fender type bass. either a Precision or a jazz .

2. While paragraphs are nice line breaks like this,
or even spaces like this

break up the text into easier segments. While paragraphs like in a written report are fine on a page on a screen and on screens of different sizes more regular breaks help reading.

[LukeFRC]

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1379779831' post='2216710'] We do a lot of work on producing text that is easy for kids with literacy difficulties (including dyslexia) to read. Even the use of the now ubiquitous Comic Sans font!

[/quote]

have you tried other options that arn't as typographically nasty as comic sans?
http://www.k-type.com/?p=520
my personal fave is FS Me which I think is what the DWP uses for most things

[mcnach]

[quote name='Funky Dunky' timestamp='1379520304' post='2213649']
I apologise if this has been done to death, I did use the search function but I ultimately decided that I wanted the opinions of experienced (and hopefully fussy) bass players, rather than just a straight "Here's the difference between active and passive basses".

On paper, it seems really straightforward - you have more tone-shaping options with an active bass. But of the active basses I've tried out to date, the tones have lacked the immediate warmth I hear from a passive bass (except - and don't laugh - the Squier Troy Sanders Jag bass, which had some really nice tones).
Bear in mind I'm a bass virgin and operating at the budget end of the gear spectrum, and so I undoubtedly won't have tried the better actives basses.

What I want is to hear YOUR opinion on why you prefer either one over the other. As many pros and cons as I can obtain, before I splash my decidedly meagre amount of cash. It ultimately comes down to what I like best I guess, but I would like as much info as possible on the active v passive argument.

Thank y'all!
[/quote]


I use mostly active. Why? It just happened that the basses I ended up liking were active (Stingray), and the ones that are passive (Jazz) I still prefer them with a good preamp (J-Retro, typically) because they make it easy for me to get the sound I want from them.

I'd say don't worry about the technology. Just figure out which bass gives you the sound you want and feels good to play etc... and don't worry whether it's passive or active.

[mcnach]

[quote name='KiOgon' timestamp='1379527603' post='2213780']
I like to hear [b][u]THE[/u][/b] bass for all that it is, passive for me every time. There isn't an active circuit made IMHO that doesn't sound 'artificially enhanced' (a bit like boobs really ) however you set it.
[/quote]

and the amp... doesn't it "artificially enhance" the sound of the bass?

[mcnach]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1379532762' post='2213900']
How many people on here bang on about passive basses only to put it straight into a modern amp with an active EQ? What they are saying is they prefer a pickup with a really long lead
[/quote]

[mcnach]

[quote name='Norris' timestamp='1379591087' post='2214490']
Passive

I've only ever owned one active bass, and that went through batteries like nobody's business. When your usual awesome tone has suddenly switched to sounding like a mouse fart a couple of times, it tends to put you off. It wouldn't be as bad if there was a gradual degradation as they ran flat. Decent batteries are not cheap when you're replacing them every couple of weeks, and woe be tied if you forget to change them...

I've never been playing and thought "I wish this bass was active". Passive still kicks butt.
[/quote]


Every couple of weeks??? Good grief!
I have my Stingray in a 6 month "reminder" to replace the battery. It would probably last a year or more, but I don't want to risk it for a couple of quid. I use this bass "all the time". Basses that I don't use so frequently are on a 1 year reminder. Some have a preamp bypass option too.

It's not that hard to have a couple of 9V Duracell batteries in the gig bag, always. Just like I carry strings and a few other bits. If the bass that you like is active, use it. If your batteries last 2 weeks... get it checked, because that's not normal. Oh, and unplug your bass when not in use. Always. Even if it's passive. Sooner or later someone will trip on the cable and break your socket or worse. Just unplug.

[mcnach]

[quote name='Ou7shined' timestamp='1379594789' post='2214584']
If you can't hear your battery dying before it finally goes then you shouldn't really be bothered by the tonal nuances of passive or active.
[/quote]


TRUE!

[Thunderbird]

[quote name='Pinball' timestamp='1379521209' post='2213658']
I like and use both!
Passive is what I prefer to listen too but I find that active is [i]eas[b]i[/b][/i][b][i]er[/i][/b] to dial in ad cuts through the mix better when playing loudly and competing with rock drummers or guitarists.
That is my general feeling but it isn't that simple as both active and passive tones range from beautiful to horrible depending on the bass and electronics so its also a case of using your ear of personal preference.
Simple as that, end of
[/quote] I agree with this but if you are buying more budget gear you could maybe try a cheap passive and a cheap active? as like Mr Pinball said there are certain situations where one is better than the other but I would think playing with both an active and a passive will give you some idea of "your" sound this is only my opinion as everyone will have a different view on this as some players really hate the active sound and find the active electronics a pain when playing live. I have both active and passive basses and like them both but I cannot really say that one is better than the other.

[D.I. Joe]

Passive for me, for similar reasons as posted above.

I prefer the tone and I'll never need to change the battery. Win WIN!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379773556' post='2216648']
I think what you're getting at is that it is still essentially a conventional magnetic pickup , albeit a fairly weak one that needs boosting to reach the required output . That is true . I suppose it depends on your definition of active . I am no electronics buff , to say the least , so I wouldn't ( and couldn't ) get into complex debate over what defines active - to me if it needs a battery , it's active - but the validity conventional approach is borne out by the fact that no radical pickup designs have ever been much practical use . A conventional magnetic pickup is relatively simple (and therefore reliable) , flexible , inexpensive , and sounds the best . What is the point in investing time and effort on radical new technologies that ultimately yield inferior results ?
[/quote]

Actually, having owned a Lightwave bass, with their optical pickup system I would completely disagree with this. The sound was phenomenal. Now that's a true active pickup in that no parts of the system work without a power source.

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1379798780' post='2216960']
Actually, having owned a Lightwave bass, with their optical pickup system I would completely disagree with this. The sound was phenomenal. Now that's a true active pickup in that no parts of the system work without a power source.
[/quote]

I can't comment directly on the Lightwave bass , never having played one myself , but , by coincidence , I used to play Zon basses back in the 1990's when they were collaborating with Lightwave on these basses and remember talking to the crew there about them . The general consensus was that it had a very hi fi sound with amazing sustain , but lacked a certain amount of" heft " in comparison to a magnetic pickup . That is not neccesarilly a bad thing , but it is at least something to consider . To me, my initial concern would be over the long-term reliability of the hardware . Magnetic pickups can last 50 years + without any attention . I doubt the Lightwave system is as robust .

EDIT: I've just been watching a YT clip of Ed Friedland playing a Lightwave fretless bass and they do indeed sound superb . It' s horses for courses , I suppose , in so much as in the right musical environment ( i.e one with enough space for it be heard properly) one of those basses would thrive , and the same can be said of a lot of basses with conventional magnetic pickups that have a more delicate sound than some other designs . Regarding reliability , I have come across a few dodgy or downright knackered piezo systems in my time , and that is probably what fuels my lingering mistrust of fancy pickups in general .

Edited September 22, 2013 by Dingus

[Karnage]

Well, this was a fun thread to read through, and definitely some people haven't necessarily thought their arguments through.

Active is what I have in use currently (6 string LTD and an old English built Status) but love some passives too.

Cable length is definitely something you can consider a non-issue with active bases. A big help in some cases.

People complaining about active circuits being only 9 volt, will often be people who are also using 9 volt powered pedals!! Square that circle if you can. Never found 9 volts making my good pedals sound lacking.

I like my bass sound to 'get out of the way' of the guitar, vocals and keys sounds (much going on) without losing it's place, and the basses I have seem good at that. Some others I have tried struggled more. I didn't pick the basses wanting active specifically, but the basses that do the job I like, do happen to be active.

I rarely use much EQ on the bass, just a tweak to the venue sometimes as I can set it while roaming around the place during soundcheck. Yes, I know it changes some with more bodies in there, but I'm more than long enough in the tooth to be able to get a feel for that.

If it sounds right doing what you want to do, it is right!

[BigRedX]

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1379809631' post='2217043']
I can't comment directly on the Lightwave bass , never having played one myself , but , by coincidence , I used to play Zon basses back in the 1990's when they were collaborating with Lightwave on these basses and remember talking to the crew there about them . The general consensus was that it had a very hi fi sound with amazing sustain , but lacked a certain amount of" heft " in comparison to a magnetic pickup . That is not neccesarilly a bad thing , but it is at least something to consider . To me, my initial concern would be over the long-term reliability of the hardware . Magnetic pickups can last 50 years + without any attention . I doubt the Lightwave system is as robust .

EDIT: I've just been watching a YT clip of Ed Friedland playing a Lightwave fretless bass and they do indeed sound superb . It' s horses for courses , I suppose , in so much as in the right musical environment ( i.e one with enough space for it be heard properly) one of those basses would thrive , and the same can be said of a lot of basses with conventional magnetic pickups that have a more delicate sound than some other designs . Regarding reliability , I have come across a few dodgy or downright knackered piezo systems in my time , and that is probably what fuels my lingering mistrust of fancy pickups in general .
[/quote]

Lightwave have gone through 3 generations of bridge/optical sensor units, and IIRC the Zon basses that used the system were mostly built with the 1st gen. model that while doing the job has been significantly improved with the subsequent revisions. Whether or not that made any difference to the sound of the baas, I don't know, but my Lightwave Saber A with the second gen. bridge had no lack of "heft" to my ears.

Interesting that you like the Ed Friedland clip, as I always use it as a prime example of why YouTube clips are meaningless when it comes to making bass choices based on sound. When I played my Lightwave bass the sound I get was absolutely nothing like Ed's, and in fact if I had seen that clip before buying the bass I might not have bothered since he made it sound like any other bass the he's demo'd.

Regarding reliability, the pickup itself is hidden away in the bridge housing and is pretty robust. There is however a lot of circuitry inside the bass, as the photo below shows - the PCB completely fills the control cavity, and it does need to be accessed to calibrate the system if you change the action or use a different type of string.

[IMG]http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n249/BigRedX/Selling/DSC01394_zps05804584.jpg[/IMG]

[Beer of the Bass]

Even if the lightwave systems became more affordable, I'd be put off by the lack of access to the strings at the bridge. If I'm prevented from palm muting on a bass, I don't feel comfortable playing it.

[Grassie]

I have a passive p-bass and an active ATK310. I play in a band which deals in "classic" rock (Lizzy, Oasis, Beatles, The Who, Spencer Davis....I could go on...) and I play the P-bass exclusively because it just sits right in our set up. I'll tweak the tone control depending on the song, but most of the time it's rolled almost all the way off. I do love my ATK - it [i]feels[/i] right and sounds great on it's own, but does tend to get lost in the mix on most of our songs, so it's currently relegated as a back up, which is a shame as it's such a nice bass. I think I'm going to sell it and get another precision.

[Marvin]

I have both passive, active and passive/active. Plug them in and...they all sound like me playing. The only difference being, at the moment, is that my passive bass has flat wounds on it which is the biggest tonal difference between any of them.

[Stacatto]

My preference is to have at least one instrument as a backup.
Here's my current lineup of four basses. One of two five strings is fretless, and one four string is neck through. It's a diverse group.

1. Active/Passive
2. Passive
3, Passive
4. Active

That list includes only one bass that will not operate without a 9v battery. Any of the other 3 basses can be carried on a gig to replace it on stage if No. 4 has a battery fail (or it otherwise fails) during a song.

Edited September 22, 2013 by Stacatto

[Dingus]

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1379780475' post='2216722']
two things you could do if you wanted to make your text slighlty easier to read...
1. You don't need a space before a punctuation mark. Look at these two examples and see how one scans easier.

I like bass , I play every day . Mainly on a warwick streamer , sometimes on a fender type bass . either a Precision or a jazz .

I like bass, I play every day. Mainly on a warwick streamer, sometimes on a fender type bass. either a Precision or a jazz .

2. While paragraphs are nice line breaks like this,
or even spaces like this

break up the text into easier segments. While paragraphs like in a written report are fine on a page on a screen and on screens of different sizes more regular breaks help reading.
[/quote]

Thanks , Luke, I will bear it in mind .

[Dingus]

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1379842662' post='2217201']
Lightwave have gone through 3 generations of bridge/optical sensor units, and IIRC the Zon basses that used the system were mostly built with the 1st gen. model that while doing the job has been significantly improved with the subsequent revisions. Whether or not that made any difference to the sound of the baas, I don't know, but my Lightwave Saber A with the second gen. bridge had no lack of "heft" to my ears.

Interesting that you like the Ed Friedland clip, as I always use it as a prime example of why YouTube clips are meaningless when it comes to making bass choices based on sound. When I played my Lightwave bass the sound I get was absolutely nothing like Ed's, and in fact if I had seen that clip before buying the bass I might not have bothered since he made it sound like any other bass the he's demo'd.

Regarding reliability, the pickup itself is hidden away in the bridge housing and is pretty robust. There is however a lot of circuitry inside the bass, as the photo below shows - the PCB completely fills the control cavity, and it does need to be accessed to calibrate the system if you change the action or use a different type of string.


[/quote]

That calibration and adjustment business means that , unfortunately perhaps given the beautiful hi - resolution of the sound these basses seem to be capable of , pickups like this will remain a niche product , I'm afraid . That extensive circuitry is also a major sticking point regarding mass -market appeal . Like the original Alembic systems with an external power supply , cost aside for the moment , it starts to border on "hair -shirt " technology and risks alienating potential consumers . The reality is that most people just can't be bothered when magnetic pickups and relatively simple active electronics can give generally satisfactory results .

Edited September 22, 2013 by Dingus