thisnameistaken Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 (edited) [quote name='visog' timestamp='1367423134' post='2065482'] Jaco did the horn arrangement on this tune too BTW... [/quote] And much of the horn arrangement will be familiar to anyone who's heard his recording of Fannie Mae. That's the one thing that irks me about Jaco - he seems to re-use his music all over the place. A lot of the bass part can be heard on his other recordings too. The main thing I like about him is the talent he's got for syncopation. Oddly, this is also why I like Flea. Edited May 1, 2013 by thisnameistaken Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted May 1, 2013 Author Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='fumps' timestamp='1367420601' post='2065432'] Have you heard many new young players ? [/quote] All of the time. A lot of young players can rip s*** out of Jaco's stuff but, as someone said above, it's the soul, the swing that they miss. Feraud, Garrison, Gwizdala etc are all monster players but they lack Jaco's organic humanity, his heart. Jaco played some incredibly moving music, clever but never cerebral. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest McBass Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1367436844' post='2065714'] All of the time. A lot of young players can rip s*** out of Jaco's stuff but, as someone said above, it's the soul, the swing that they miss. Feraud, Garrison, Gwizdala etc are all monster players but they lack Jaco's organic humanity, his heart. Jaco played some incredibly moving music, clever but never cerebral. [/quote] What you said! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted May 1, 2013 Share Posted May 1, 2013 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1367436844' post='2065714'] All of the time. A lot of young players can rip s*** out of Jaco's stuff but, as someone said above, it's the soul, the swing that they miss. Feraud, Garrison, Gwizdala etc are all monster players but they lack Jaco's organic humanity, his heart. Jaco played some incredibly moving music, clever but never cerebral. [/quote] Can't argue with that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) [quote name='Coilte' timestamp='1367412326' post='2065281'] I basically agree with your opinions on Jaco. I recognise his talent, but neither his music nor his playing does anything for me. I was addressing your idea of the "proper" role of the bass in music. Perhaps using the physical side of playing was not the best way to do this, though I'm sure you can see my point here also. Let me try another approach. Before Jamerson came along, the bass generally played a supportive role in music. We knew it was there, but it was as much implied or felt, as heard. Jamerson's style and interpretation of charts, changed all this. While the bass was still supporting the music, it was doing so in a much more dynamic way. This was not what was regarded as the "proper" way to play up to then. To my mind J J was supporting the song. He was never intrusive , never showing off. He listened to the song and backed it in the best way he could. I think musicians in general , not just bass players , should primarily support the song. The song is the whole point. We ca do that in the constructive , melodic , skillfull and artistic way J J did .... or we can put ourselves first and fret w***. I know which I prefer. I am not comparing the two bassists, except to say that they both brought their own unique approach to playing the bass. [/quote] I think that all musicians should primarily support the song - not just bass players. It's the whole point. J J was superb at doing so. He never put himself before it - he used his skills to improve the song - not to over shadow it. He didn't give a monkeys how good people thought he was - he cared only for how much better the song was for his input. Edited May 2, 2013 by Dr.Dave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='xilddx' timestamp='1367442371' post='2065839'] Can't argue with that. [/quote] No definitely not. Thanks Bilbo for answering my question I hope it didn't come across as rude. I often wonder about the modern musicians building up their skills & the one thing that strikes me about the people who come along & change the way people see music is the ones who have no idea what the rules are. I love to see people who play music with no idea of self consciousness, it just is what they do. Recently I posted a video of a guy I've met several times through people I know called Jon Gomm his approach to playing guitar fascinates me. People like him just does things in ways that makes me think that music is an amazing thing it has the power to delight, confuse & change lives. I was once asked "why do you play an instrument?" I told her that if you love something you don't need a reason, you just love it, its part of you & will be forever. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thisnameistaken Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='fumps' timestamp='1367517452' post='2066379'] Recently I posted a video of a guy I've met several times through people I know called Jon Gomm his approach to playing guitar fascinates me. People like him just does things in ways that makes me think that music is an amazing thing it has the power to delight, confuse & change lives.[/quote] I've seen him a few times, he's a great player and great fun too. I always think people who play like that have developed the technique out of necessity as much as anything else - wanting to play more than anybody else wants to play will do it - you'll end up with just yourself for accompaniment sometimes! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='thisnameistaken' timestamp='1367518277' post='2066402'] I've seen him a few times, he's a great player and great fun too. I always think people who play like that have developed the technique out of necessity as much as anything else - wanting to play more than anybody else wants to play will do it - you'll end up with just yourself for accompaniment sometimes! [/quote] Yeh he's a lovely guy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonestar Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 First time i heard him was in my teens in the late 70s in the sony showroom in regent st where you could tryi out all there hi fi and keep out of the rain after trawling the guitar shops in denmark st and charing cross road on a saturday afternoon. They had some early projection tv screen type thing playing weather report, probably heavy weather live. I was hooked. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='fumps' timestamp='1367517452' post='2066379']...Jon Gomm...[/quote] Many thanks for this, a real find. Clever bloke. Definite 'Like'. [url="http://www.smileyvault.com/"][/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
visog Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1367521214' post='2066451'] Many thanks for this, a real find. Clever bloke. Definite 'Like'. [/quote] Very talented but very Michael Hedges. Hedges like Jaco: They both stole and were heavily infulenced too - Hendrix for example in both case but they brought it together in their own singular statements on music. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lynottfan Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 (edited) Jon Gomm played on a local open mike night that my band headlined a few years ago now, and that boy was a bit special then. He has come a long way and well deserves it, a top man. Edited May 2, 2013 by Lynottfan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1367512464' post='2066267'] I think that all musicians should primarily support the song - not just bass players. It's the whole point. J J was superb at doing so. He never put himself before it - he used his skills to improve the song - not to over shadow it. He didn't give a monkeys how good people thought he was - he cared only for how much better the song was for his input. [/quote] There is nothing written in stone that all music [b]has[/b] to be performed in a four minute song format! That may, quite rightly, be the norm, but there has to be room for instrumental music and also for truly great players to do extraordinary things to take what can be done with an instrument forward. Assuming that you are not a die hard, old school punk rocker – if you dismiss this type of music out of hand you are probably missing a trick! Some people get very defensive when they hear someone who is better than they are. I get tired of all this talk of fret w@*kery whenever anyone mentions a guitarist who is actually any f@*kin good! And of course when you hear a genuine game changer like Jaco, suddenly people get threatened by the fact that their heroes are not in the same league, yet alone the fact that they will never be able to play like that. Therefore they start picking holes in his tone and accusing him of ‘widdling’ or whatever, which is kind of missing the point. The ironic thing is that out of all the monster jazz players, JP was (at times) a killer groove player – I’m sure that Jamerson (who I believe was originally a jazz player himself) would have approved! I have three or four Jaco records, which I rarely listen to – to be honest I’m more a Van Halen kinda guy! However, I have been indirectly influenced by him quite a bit in that I have copped plenty of licks from guys like Tony Franklin, who I know got them originally from JP and then put them in a rock context where I picked them up. I can’t see how it does any harm to at least be aware of they came from and to appreciate the artistry of the original, even if you are never going to be a big fan of the type of music that Jaco played… Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 This is almost like watching 'Rabies' the musical. Some people don't like Jaco. They're not saying that everyone else is wrong, they're just saying they don't like it. So far I've seen people classed as 'mediocre', threatened', 'not getting it', 'poor choice of heroes' and a whole pile of other rubbish for not liking his stuff. Is there any danger that people can just accept the fact that he's not for everyone and just respect that without making out they're some sort of two headed imbecile from the planet Zob? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dad3353 Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1367534135' post='2066748']...two headed imbecile from the planet Zob?[/quote] What..? They don't like Jaco there..? How strange... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
icastle Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1367535662' post='2066766'] What..? They don't like Jaco there..? How strange... [/quote] Well one of them thought he might do but his other head talked him out of it... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EssentialTension Posted May 2, 2013 Share Posted May 2, 2013 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1367532087' post='2066705'] ... Some people get very defensive when they hear someone who is better than they are ... [/quote] Some people get defensive when other people are less keen on something they love. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shizznit Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 The first time I heard Jaco was a friend playing Portrait Of Tracy when I went out gear shopping with him. I thought it was his own invention but quickly stopped me dead and said that it was one of Jaco's pieces. He copied some cassettes for me (yeah, remember those?) and instantly became a fan. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='EssentialTension' timestamp='1367536001' post='2066769'] Some people get defensive when other people are less keen on something they love. [/quote] Maybe, but bear in mind that Jaco is not one of my main musical heroes - I'm just saying that people should recognise what he did and not come out with spurious comparisons to James Jamerson! He was always going to have more of an effect on someone like Bilbo because be likes that kind of music. My point about people getting defensive when they hear brilliant musicians was way more general than just talking about Jaco... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr.Dave Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1367568294' post='2066899'] Maybe, but bear in mind that Jaco is not one of my main musical heroes - I'm just saying that people should recognise what he did and not come out with spurious comparisons to James Jamerson! He was always going to have more of an effect on someone like Bilbo because be likes that kind of music. My point about people getting defensive when they hear brilliant musicians was way more general than just talking about Jaco... [/quote] I'm not comparing JJ to Jaco - I'm comparing what I perceive as their differing approaches to playing music. To be defensive when hearing brilliant musicians... first you would have to accept the musician in question's 'brilliance'. In Jaco's case - I'm not sure I do totally. I also , generally , find that those who stand gaping in awe of another players technical skills are the average , jealous players rather than those who feel competent enough not to (seek to) need to prove themselves to anyone , but would rather put themselves second to the work they're contributing to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='icastle' timestamp='1367534135' post='2066748'] two headed imbecile from the planet Zob? [/quote] I've done her. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
peteb Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='Dr.Dave' timestamp='1367569979' post='2066938'] I'm not comparing JJ to Jaco - I'm comparing what I perceive as their differing approaches to playing music. To be defensive when hearing brilliant musicians... first you would have to accept the musician in question's 'brilliance'. In Jaco's case - I'm not sure I do totally. I also , generally , find that those who stand gaping in awe of another players technical skills are the average , jealous players rather than those who feel competent enough not to (seek to) need to prove themselves to anyone , but would rather put themselves second to the work they're contributing to. [/quote] Really? IME good musicians are confident enough to recognise talent in others and maybe learn from them... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zenitram Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='peteb' timestamp='1367574399' post='2067040'] good musicians are confident enough to recognise talent in others and maybe learn from them... [/quote] Bad musicians are too. And non-musicians. Anyone, really. It's possible (and usual!) to appreciate how wizard somebody is at something, to understand what they do, and still not be moved by it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dlloyd Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='Zenitram' timestamp='1367574640' post='2067045'] Bad musicians are too. And non-musicians. Anyone, really. It's possible (and usual!) to appreciate how wizard somebody is at something, to understand what they do, and still not be moved by it. [/quote] Sure... this looks quite difficult, but... [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jOjHhJd70f4[/media] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fumps Posted May 3, 2013 Share Posted May 3, 2013 [quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1367521214' post='2066451'] Many thanks for this, a real find. Clever bloke. Definite 'Like'. [url="http://www.smileyvault.com/"][/url] [/quote] Yes mate try "Passionflower" ...gob smacked with what he's doing there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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