'downgrading' from 5 strings to 4...?

[lowdowner]

[quote name='Fat Rich' timestamp='1363300176' post='2011400']
I don't play often below E but sometimes it's nice to drop one in.

It took me ages to adjust to 5 strings, then I struggled to go back to 4. Now I switch between them without thinking and enjoy them both.

But I never felt the need for a high C string despite owning a lovely sounding 6er.
[/quote]

A high C string seems perilously close to a treble guitar!

[BigRedX]

Well it's almost 25 years since I bought my first 5-string bass, and I haven't really looked back. IME most people who try 5-strings and then go back to 4, simply haven't tried a good enough one to be able to make a properly informed decision. There's a lot more to a 5-string than simply a wider neck to accommodate the extra string, and unfortunately for those who want to try one out, unless you are very lucky that means spending a fair bit more to get something worthwhile.

I was lucky in that I was still a relative beginner, when I bought my first 5-string, and even though it wasn't a brilliant example it was a better bass overall than the 4-string I'd been using up until then. Also a year or so later I was able to buy a really good Overwater 5-string bass at a bargain price, and that set me on my way.

I've recently been re-evaluating all my 4-string basses since they've been mostly unplayed for years, and I wanted to see if any worth worth hanging on to or if I should just sell the lot. So I've been trying them out at rehearsals, and even took the Born To Rock out to a gig. However my overall feeling is that except for the opportunity to wield some other weird looking instruments on stage, there's nothing in any of the 4-string basses worth keeping that my 5-stringers don't do just as well - and in most cases much better. However if the Talbo Bass doesn't sell I may well look at getting it converted to a 5-stringer!

Edited March 16, 2013 by BigRedX

[Spoombung]

A 4-sting will often sound a lot bassier and a lot clearer- even in the upper octave. Its....

Strong fundamental, weak harmonic mids (low stung instruments like 5-stings)
versus
Strong mid harmonic, strong fundamental (a 4-string)

An upper octave instrument is usually perceived as bassier because of the accompanying mid harmonics that lower pitched instruments don't possess.
In short, it's more audible and more textural.

I would encourage any bassist to do themselves a BIG favour and 'downgrade' to a 4-string and return to audibility.

[Spoombung]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1363208407' post='2009941']
Can't you play the 'low' tones just an octave higher (or even, gosh, something different around the same theme/feel but not so low?)

I ask genuinely by the way, I don't know the answer
[/quote]

Yes, you certainly can. And it's very likely it will sound great; just listen to a bassist like Chris Squire or Jack Bruce if you're not convinced.

[chris_b]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1363432243' post='2012607']
....A 4-sting will often sound a lot bassier and a lot clearer- even in the upper octave....
[/quote]

Really?

[chris_b]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1363432681' post='2012612']
....it will sound great; just listen to a bassist like Chris Squire....
[/quote]

Now I know why we will never agree.

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1363432243' post='2012607']
A 4-sting will often sound a lot bassier and a lot clearer- even in the upper octave. Its....

Strong fundamental, weak harmonic mids (low stung instruments like 5-stings)
versus
Strong mid harmonic, strong fundamental (a 4-string)

An upper octave instrument is usually perceived as bassier because of the accompanying mid harmonics that lower pitched instruments don't possess.
In short, it's more audible and more textural.

I would encourage any bassist to do themselves a BIG favour and 'downgrade' to a 4-string and return to audibility.
[/quote]

I'm really not sure about that. I don't hear the top four strings on my five string as sounding any different to a similarly configured four string. My ash bodied, bolt-on necked 5 string with passive Jazz pickups just sounds like a Jazz to my ears. If there is a difference due to the heftier neck, increased tension or differently shaped pickup coils, I think it's smaller than the variation that exists within differently built four string basses.
The only difference I have noticed is that the type of right-hand stroke you can use on the E string is different, as you now have a lower string limiting your finger movement.
EDIT; I read your post again - I guess you're talking about the sound of a higher octave note versus a lower one, not comparing tone of the same note on a four string vs. a five string. If so, ignore the above! Although by the same logic, perhaps we should all "upgrade" to guitar and ditch those bass notes entirely!

Edited March 16, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[BigRedX]

It's all about picking the notes that sound and feel right. Having an extra string gives you more options. Also the same notes played on different string sound different. I much prefer the sound of notes played in the second octave and the B, E and A strings to their equivalents on the D and G strings, there's so much more weight and presence to them.

[stingrayPete1977]

It has been said before on other threads but the extra string does make the bass sound different, I have owned multiples of the same bass in 4 and 5 string versions and it is there for sure, the argument about it got silly last time as I recall but my view is that both basses sounded great just different other 5 stringers were up in arms at the suggestion of the B altering the overall sound of the bass especially on the open strings.

Edited March 16, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[Spoombung]

[quote name='Beer of the Bass' timestamp='1363433286' post='2012623']
EDIT; I read your post again - I guess you're talking about the sound of a higher octave note versus a lower one, not comparing tone of the same note on a four string vs. a five string. If so, ignore the above! Although by the same logic, perhaps we should all "upgrade" to guitar and ditch those bass notes entirely!
[/quote]




Yep, I'm just talking about the octaves, not the actual instruments.

You can have as much fundemental as you like on a 'B' played on a 4 string (an octave up from a bottom 'B' on a 5-string) and it will often sound much bassier because your ear will tune in to the harmonics - the harmonics that are very much lacking on the note an octave below. Your ear can 'track' the bass line and you get a sense of a [i]complete bass line[/i] rather than low rumbles with a few high notes.

Having a 5-string and playing below the E on the B string [i]for most of a song[/i] is a quick way to make your bass playing anonymous and it will reduce all your efforts to inaudible padding and rumble IMO. That's what I tell my students!

Edited March 16, 2013 by Spoombung

[Spoombung]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1363433100' post='2012618']
Really?
[/quote]

Yes, [i]really[/i].

[stingrayPete1977]

Some nice ERB notes in this (listen on a proper device)
[media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5ZeTmpN63Q[/media]
I think it works if you can hold the notes, fast riffs become a bit of mush.

Edited March 16, 2013 by stingrayPete1977

[leroydiamond]

[quote name='lowdowner' timestamp='1363206619' post='2009902']
just wondering if anyone on here has 'downgraded' from 5 strings back to 4 again permanently? I've been playing my 5 stringer for a few months now and haven't touched my 4 string (Thumb B.O.) since I first discovered the joys of the 5 string...

I've had a week's holiday this week and spent most of it playing my 5 string bass (well, who wouldn't?) but on a whim decided to play my 4 stringer again today and something feels kind of 'right' about 4 strings.

Anyone else had this feeling? Is it just familiarity with the old 4 stringer, or is there something that just 'works' with 4 strings? I'm interested if anyone has gone through a 5 string 'phase' and returned to their 4 string permanently...?
[/quote]
Went from playing a lovely Pedulla thunderbolt 5 to a 1964 fender jazz and Sadowsky jj 4. I am much happier in 4 string land and its no downgrade IMO. Funny thing was I found adjusting from 5 to 4 much more demanding than going from 4 to 5

[Beer of the Bass]

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1363442800' post='2012781']
Having a 5-string and playing below the E on the B string [i]for most of a song[/i] is a quick way to make your bass playing anonymous and it will reduce all your efforts to inaudible padding and rumble IMO. That's what I tell my students!
[/quote]

Yep, I definitely agree with that. Though I enjoy my five string, notes below the E on the B string are a rare occurence with my band. We have songs in the key of B where I don't use the low B at all. Out of our whole set, I think I have a few instances of the low E flat and a couple of D natural, and they tend to be part of a line rather than pedalled on. Although I could use a four string with a Hipshot (or just tweak my lines a bit), I like the reduced shifting and the "full length thumbrest" I get with the B-string. Oddly enough, four strings still feel natural to me on my double bass, but that's an entirely different instrument.

Edited March 16, 2013 by Beer of the Bass

[stingrayPete1977]

[quote name='hunt the shunt' timestamp='1363458331' post='2013035']
The title of this thread seems to be suggesting that a five is better than a four. It is not.
[/quote]
You forgot the IMO

[louisthebass]

[quote name='hunt the shunt' timestamp='1363458331' post='2013035']
The title of this thread seems to be suggesting that a five is better than a four. It is not.
[/quote]

I don't think it's a case that a 5 is better than a 4... I've been using a 5 for the last 17 years, but to my mind the 4 is also still a valid instrument in any genre of music. I've got a 4 kicking around and enjoy playing it as much as any of my 5's - it occasionally feels like I've lost a digit when I pick a 4 up, but I get over it very quickly. A bass is a bass .

[Delberthot]

When I was 12 I picked up my first bass.It was a 4 string. It wasn't until I was 19 that I got my first 5 string. I played 5 and 6 string basses for the next 13 years and then about 5 years ago I went back to 4 strings.

I don't miss the extra strings.I have a detuner to handle the lower stuff. I'm playing better than ever without the extra stings and I certainly don't feel that I "downgraded" In fact, all of those years of playing wide necks, especially the ironing board width of the Yamaha TRB6, anything with 4 strings feels like I'm holding a pencil.

[thisnameistaken]

I played a 6 string for a couple of years but in the end I decided I didn't like the sound of the B or the C strings. When I got into it I liked the B but in the end it just seemed to sound really '90s! The C string I don't think I ever liked, it was just weedy-sounding. It was a good bass too, one of the first Corvette Prolines with a pair of Bartolinis in it.

So yeah I bought a 4 and like others have said it just immediately felt more comfortable to play. But also I think the fact that there's less difference between the timbre of the strings is a really important factor.

[Chris2112]

It all depends on the basses coming through my hands at the time. I never make a concious decision to pay less or more strings, really.