Adding another cab advice

[neptunehealer]

Hi guys, i currently use a 4x10 cab with my amp all at 8 ohms

I am going to upgrade my cab with a new 4x10 and also buy a 1x15 cab to work my amp at 4 ohms.

Trouble is i need to get my head round the basics before i take the plunge.

My amp is 550 watts @ 4 ohms (don't know the rms) (Markbass head)

So just say i buy a 1x15 cab rated 400 watts @ 8 ohms and a 4x10 cab rated 800 watts @ 8 ohms. (Both cabs Ampeg)


How will the power rating work with my amp, will it give me headroom, or will i risk blowing my amp. If someone could explain this to me and how much power will be sent through each speaker it would help me no end.

How will these cabs work with my amp?

[jackers]

I would say that if you like 410s, you should get 2 of the same 410s, rather than a 410 and a 115. The idea of a 115 adding more lows than a 410 and 410s being more punchy are outdated and now just used as marketing speak.

They are alot of cab gurus on here (Bill Fitzmaurice and Alex Claber being 2), who can help you with specifics

[discreet]

There's nothing [i]wrong [/i]with mixing cabs, but I certainly think that using two identical cabs can avoid potential problems. If you do a search there are quite a few threads on here regarding the subject.

Edited January 14, 2013 by discreet

[jackers]

Ofcourse, nothing wrong with it at all but with 2 of the same you do know exactly what you will be getting.

[neptunehealer]

So you don't recommend me connecting a 1x15 to a 4x10 even if it's made by the same company and are advised to go together?

I just need to understand all the ohmage and wattage when going from 8 ohms to 4 ohms then i can start purchasing.

[Lord Sausage]

This was a great help to me!

[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/177711-need-help-understanding-power-ratings/page__hl__need%20help%20understanding__st__0"]http://basschat.co.u...standing__st__0[/url]

and this

http://basschat.co.uk/topic/180123-2x12-vs-4x10/page__fromsearch__1

Edited January 14, 2013 by Lord Sausage

[Musky]

You won't blow your amp by using speakers rated with a higher wattage than your amp is capable of. The only thing you have to watch for in that department is the impedance of the speakers. Your amp has a minimum load of four ohms, so as long as you don't drop below that you'll be fine. In practical terms that means either two 8 ohm cabs or one 4 ohm cab.

[xgsjx]

At the most, your amp will put 275 watts to each cab.
If you go down the 4x10 & 1x15 route, put the quieter of the cabs to the top so you can hear it if you're causing it to fart. This will possibly be the 1x15, but it depends on the sensitivity of the driver (AKA is the 15 louder than 4 10s).
I also suggest going with 2 cabs that are the same, but use your ears & see what sounds good to you.

Having a read through the "amps & cabs" section on here as well as the barefaced & bill Fitzmaurice's websites can help give you some background & knowledge before buying.

[Conan]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358201897' post='1934916']
How will these cabs work with my amp?
[/quote]

They will work. Each will draw 275 watts (or so) from the amp, which is well withing their quoted power ratings. You shouldn't do any damage to either the amp or cabs, even running the rig flat out (as if...). The combined impedance is 4 ohms, which your amp is designed to operate at. Mixing speaker sizes is OK, and many people have done it for years with no ill effects - but as others have said, the results can be less predictable than using two identical cabs. It's your money though!

Whether it will sound good is a different matter and will depend on what your ears tell you.

Edited January 15, 2013 by Conan

[xgsjx]

Though it's unlikely, I wouldn't 100% trust that your amp won't damage your speakers as watts is only the thermal rating of the drivers.
If you exceed the driver's capabilities elsewhere then damage can occur.
You can do damage to a cab rated at 1000w whilst using an amp rated at 100w (in the late 80s I broke a 500w cab with a 120w amp).

[chris_b]

So each cab will get approx 225 watts, but only if you turn the amp up to 11!

Are you ever going to play that loud?

In reality you'll be putting nearer 100 watts into each cab (if that) so all your gear will be working comfortably within spec. If you get speakers with high sensitivity then you'll need even fewer watts to drive them loud.

I've heard 2 Markbass Standard 102F cabs with your amp and they sounded pretty impressive.

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358250269' post='1935430']
So each cab will get approx 225 watts, but only if you turn the amp up to 11!

Are you ever going to play that loud?

In reality you'll be putting nearer 100 watts into each cab (if that) so all your gear will be working comfortably within spec. If you get speakers with high sensitivity then you'll need even fewer watts to drive them loud.

I've heard 2 Markbass Standard 102F cabs with your amp and they sounded pretty impressive.
[/quote]

Well, the band i'm in play from small pubs to the occasional outdoor gigs and larger venues, so it's a mixed bag really. I want a rig which can handle any situation with ease. I would rather have more power than i need.
So you'd recommend two 2x10's stacked then with my amp?

I have been getting swayed by the GK cabs - especially looking at the GK 410 RBH as it has good reviews, just wondering if it would sound good with a Markbass head. In fact i am tempted to go down the GK route with a head too as the tone seems to be more flexible than a MB. I know they're a lot heavier to lift though.

I really need to try some of these amps and cabs out in a shop - anyone recommend any music shops in Birmingham or Manchester where they have all these in stock to try out?

[JTUK]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358203848' post='1934974']
So you don't recommend me connecting a 1x15 to a 4x10 even if it's made by the same company and are advised to go together?

I just need to understand all the ohmage and wattage when going from 8 ohms to 4 ohms then i can start purchasing.
[/quote]

Any [b]2 cabs at 8 ohms [/b]will run with your amp so you are correct to want to do this.
The cab config choice is another issue.

[Lozz196]

Two of the same cab is the preferred. However if room for two 410s in the car isn`t an option, adding a 210 in works nicely. As per xgsjx`s post, 275 watts into each cab, so long as you have a 210 capable of more.

Plus, with putting a 210 in you have the same sound, so can just use one of the cabs at reharsals/small gigs, bring out both for the larger ones, with no need to adjust eq, whereas adding a 115 this is likely, and you`ll possible never get the sound from one of the cabs that you get with both.

[chris_b]

I don't know any shops up there, but have a look at the Bassdirect site. It's near Warwick.


[url="http://www.bassdirect.co.uk/bass_guitar_specialists/Home.html"]http://www.bassdirec...lists/Home.html[/url]


Also , check out the FS section. There's someone selling 2 Bergantino AE210's. I have 2 of those and they are plain amazing. How loud do you need to be? I mainly use 2 12 cabs (300watts each) and they cover 90% of what I do.

Barefaced, Aguilar, Markbass, Genz, GK and Hartke are great cabs and all have their fans, but you've got to do more homework and listen to a few rigs.

[JTUK]

Markbass and GK..??? not sure on that, tbh...but GK and GK will do ok..even if the sound is not for me.

500w will work into a 210 and 115 and be a good match up, IMO. this should also be a decent carry and relatively compact onstage.
410 and 115 or 410/410 is a stage rig and looks mental/stupid in a pub, IMO.

I favour 2x210's and they stack about a 1mtr high. and the thing with the 2 cab idea I have mentioned is that the modular approach can work.

If you are a LOUD band and play decent sized stages, then a 610 is a great idea, IMV... but it could be a pain to lug EVERYwhere.

Edited January 15, 2013 by JTUK

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1358253728' post='1935573']
Markbass and GK..??? not sure on that, tbh...but GK and GK will do ok..even if the sound is not for me.

500w will work into a 210 and 115 and be a good match up, IMO. this should also be a decent carry and relatively compact onstage.
410 and 115 or 410/410 is a stage rig and looks mental/stupid in a pub, IMO.

I favour 2x210's and they stack about a 1mtr high. and the thing with the 2 cab idea I have mentioned is that the modular approach can work.

If you are a LOUD band and play decent sized stages, then a 610 is a great idea, IMV... but it could be a pain to lug EVERYwhere.
[/quote]

We are loud, we're diverse, so i need to get a good all round balanced sound.

With 2x 210 set-up will i acheive the lowend desired than what i'd get with a 115 and 210 setup?

What's the benefits of each set-up?

[chris_b]

There's an Aguilar 410 just gone on sale here for £300!

Grab that quick. It'll make you sound fantastic.

[barkin]

Are you assuming you need a 15 to get the lows?

Don't.

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='barkin' timestamp='1358257894' post='1935683']
Are you assuming you need a 15 to get the lows?

Don't.
[/quote]

I guess i am assuming that to be honest. How can ia cheive them without it?
I hava Geddy Lee which is a bit limited with the low end so i need that extra bit of help you see.

[discreet]

All that the size of a driver tells you is... how big the driver is. Diameter tells you nothing about tone!

Alex Claber says it much better than I ever could:

[url="http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm"]http://barefacedbass.com/technical-information/speaker-size-frequency-response.htm[/url]

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358255185' post='1935618']
There's an Aguilar 410 just gone on sale here for £300!

Grab that quick. It'll make you sound fantastic.
[/quote]

Nice spot!!! Isn't this just a 4ohm cab though? ideally i am after an 8ohm so i can add an extra cab.
Will this cab work well with my MB head?

[chris_b]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358258791' post='1935717']
....Isn't this just a 4ohm cab though? ideally i am after an 8ohm so i can add an extra cab.
Will this cab work well with my MB head?....
[/quote]

I think you're over analysing this. It's understandable, you want to get the best sound for your money, but, be honest, anything will be an improvement on your Laney (sorry!).

You really won't need another cab with a DB410. It's that good. They are a little heavy but their tone and volume is right up there with the best of the best.

I don't know about working with your amp, I expect that it would. I've owned 2 Markbass amps and they worked well with every cab I bought, but at this price you could buy this cab and a new Aguilar TH500, really blow your band away, and still be in budget.

But, as I said in your other thread, the Genz Focus range would probably suit you as well.

You need to test some gear.

[neptunehealer]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1358261405' post='1935798']
I think you're over analysing this. It's understandable, you want to get the best sound for your money, but, be honest, anything will be an improvement on your Laney (sorry!).

You really won't need another cab with a DB410. It's that good. They are a little heavy but their tone and volume is right up there with the best of the best.

I don't know about working with your amp, I expect that it would. I've owned 2 Markbass amps and they worked well with every cab I bought, but at this price you could buy this cab and a new Aguilar TH500, really blow your band away, and still be in budget.

But, as I said in your other thread, the Genz Focus range would probably suit you as well.

You need to test some gear.
[/quote]

Yes maybe you're right, i am over cooking it a bit. It's interesting though, and you guys have given me a fairly good understanding now.
I deffo need to test some gear, just where i live it's a bit of a graveyard so nothing much to try.
The Genz Focus range sure is tempting me, am yet to find a negative review on them and they're veyr cheap and powerful.

Yeah the Aguilar i'm sure would be amazing, but i am just hung up on getting 2x 8ohm cabs!!!

Feel free to insult my Laney, it's the only cab i have had since i started playing in a band at 16, i can't believe i have had it this long really. It's a relief to know i am ont he way to improving my sound, quite excited actually.
Would the Genz Focus range be a massive step up for me too?

[Conan]

[quote name='neptunehealer' timestamp='1358262216' post='1935827']
I deffo need to test some gear, but i am just hung up on getting 2x 8ohm cabs!!!
[/quote]

You also need to do some research! There are loads of threads on here about the perceived costs and benefits of mixing speaker sizes, mixing manufacturers, the "tone" produced by different amps, cabs and basses (BTW, I've never found my Geddy Lee to be shy in the low end!), and pretty much all the answers to your various questions can be found in those threads.

If you want two 8 ohm cabs then that is your prerogative, but as others have tried to tell you, there are other approaches! Many of us have gone through the stage that you are at now, and you could easily benefit from our experiences if you do a bit of digging to find the relevant threads.

Out of interest, would one four ohm 6x10 not be a better option than two mis-matched eight ohm cabs? Just a suggestion.