swapping a 4x10 for a 1x12?

[DaveB]

Hey folks, just after a bit of advice with my cab. I currently run a markbass tube800 into a markbass 410hr. This has been fine and i've been happy with it sound wise but even though it's super light for a 4x10, I really can't cope with a 4x10 any more because of the size and weight with my crippled back. So this got me thinking, years ago I gigged with a 2x12 and until I blew the cab (I didn't understand watts and ohms then lol) I was happy with it. So I've been looking at 1x12 cabs and was wondering how you think just having one until I can afford a second would sound under gig conditions.
I'm going up to Bass Direct in a few weeks to check out Vanderkley 112MNT has this appeals the most from sound clips i've heard and reviews i've read but need to hear it for myself.
Interested to hear your views?

[xgsjx]

It depends on what you need it for? If you're playing through PA, then a single 12 might well be all you need.

What about a 2x10? I find it does all I need as anything that needs more usually has PA.

[DaveB]

Ah sorry should of stated that, it has to be able to stand on it's own for smaller pub/ club gigs. We do have a PA. I'm not a big fan of stand alone 2x10 to be honest as they sound a little gutless to me, what do you use though as I'd be interested to check it out. I've tried the Eden, Peavey, Hartke and Laneys.

[Mr. Foxen]

Barefaced super 12 is a 2x12 that should basically totally do you for the purpose. It will go a bit further than a 4x10 and is comically light.

[chris_b]

A 112 is [i]not[/i] a replacement for a 410. 2x112 cabs might get close (if they are good ones) but they still won't be an equivalent in a loud band.

I use 2 Bergantino 112 cabs and they replaced a 410, but I never pushed the 410 very hard.

If you like the Markbass sound then 2 of their 102HF cabs sound pretty good, but they are a little on the large side. I'm told the Barefaced S12T would kill a 410, as would 2 Compacts, but if you need a [i]small[/i], powerful, modular rig then 112’s would be my choice.
[font=Arial][size=2] [/size][/font]

[xgsjx]

Like Chris B says, try the Markbass 102HF. I'd also take a look at Barefaced.
A single 12 wouldn't have any more guts than a 2x10 unless you got a well designed 1x12 & a poorer designed 2x10.

Ideally, you want a good drummer. A good drummer will carry all your gear for you.

[Ed_S]

[quote name='Mr. Foxen' timestamp='1346107473' post='1785498']
Barefaced super 12 is a 2x12 that should basically totally do you for the purpose. It will go a bit further than a 4x10 and is comically light.
[/quote]

Yup - I currently have a Markbass 104HR and a Barefaced S12, and whilst I do still like and use the Markbass, it's hard not to advocate the S12 as a worthy replacement. It only drops about 7Kg from what you're used to shifting, but at the same time the 'tall thin' shape means it's a much more comfortable lift and a lot easier to get through doors etc. plus the built-in back wheels are nifty for when you're inside. The one minor is that the textured finish is quite sharp in places and I've actually managed to skin my knuckles on mine before, but you soon learn not to do it, and once you've invested in a dust cover it's a lot less dangerous!

[xgsjx]

you could always cover your S12 in Fur Fabric.

Edited August 28, 2012 by xgsjx

[chris_b]

My thoughts on slimming my gear down was a 212, for the loud stuff, and a 112, for the quiet gigs, but I don't want to carry a 212 so I'm currently playing though a 2 ohm amp and 3 112 cabs.

It's working well so far.

[eude]

I agree with chris b, 2x 1x12s would easily outpace a crappy to medium quality 4x10, but not a Markbass one.
How about trying two of their 2x10 lightweight cabs? At 33lbs, they'd be a very easy one hand lift, even with a dodgy back >> http://www.markbass.it/product_detail.php?id=37
That might get you pretty close, and it'd give you the option of taking just one cab if the gig doesn't need too much power?...

Cheers,
Eude

[largo]

I went for 2 of the GK Neo 112-ii cabs from Mark at Bass Direct. Easy one hand lift for each cab, or both in one trip and pricewise you'll be about the same as a single Vanderkley cab. They are superbly built. What I like a lot about them is they are small, lightweight and you can stack them on end to raise the speakers if you want. Got to be worth a listen.

Edited August 28, 2012 by largo

[JTUK]

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1346109459' post='1785512']
A 112 is [i]not[/i] a replacement for a 410. 2x112 cabs might get close (if they are good ones) but they still won't be an equivalent in a loud band.

I use 2 Bergantino 112 cabs and they replaced a 410, but I never pushed the 410 very hard.


[/quote]

Agree with this.... I run 2x112 and they are good but they are no match for my 2x210's when it really gets down to it

You can try a few 112's but you are going to have to have 2 for a pokey band sound and even then they will not outdo a decent 410 config.

2x112 is a decent weight save compromise.

[M@23]

Two 112's sounds like a good option. I just got a markbass 600f32, it's a front ported 212. It's quite a chunky cab, not dreadful to move but certainly not super portable. I a/b'ed it against a 104hf and hr and would say volume wise, there was no noticeable difference.
I can't comment on how two 112s would compare - but volume wise my 212 was comparable to Markbass' 4x10s.

[DaveB]

Thanks for all the input guys, going to try out everything suggested

[BobVbass]

I've tried my Super 12T against both the 2x10 and 4x10 Markbass cabs - in both cases the Super Twelve was far louder and had better clarity

[stingrayPete1977]

I am still not convinced 2 1x12s are the same as a single 2x12. A good 2x12 compares well to a good 4x10 IME/O

[M@23]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1346259382' post='1787163']
I am still not convinced 2 1x12s are the same as a single 2x12. A good 2x12 compares well to a good 4x10 IME/O
[/quote]

I've not tried 2 112's at any great length but would be interested to hear them in comparison to the equivalent 212.

[stingrayPete1977]

For most situations I think 2 1x12s would be enough for most of us anyway and has its obvious advantages, I have a 1x12 and a 2x12 so the only problem I have is if I dont know the size of the venue beforehand I have to take pot luck or take the 2x12 to be on the safe side, that said if you have 2 1x12s and dont know you still have to take both anyway.

[JTUK]

A 212 doesn't interest me as if I was going to run that size and wieght... I would rather go with 10's

Just as a single 112 is lacking, IMV, so is a single 210...especially when compared with the sound of both types paired.

I can tell the difference between my NEO 12's paired and my 210's ( non-NEO, as it happens) paired.
Maybe I would think the sound is close...if I didn't have both configs but then I wouldn't consider a 112 as any sort of solution..
Not a fan of single chassis cabs and certainly not alone...but the 2x210 is far superior, IME.
300watts and less typically is still asking a lot from the chassis in terms of frequency and performance. I would expect the single to possibly handle the volume well enough...but that is about it for my needs.
The amp would be pushing hard..and some don't cope well with that..and the driver working overtime as well.

2x112 is a decent compromise though...but an expensive way of buying a 212 config... but I would still rather carry 2x112 plus more easily stackable in smal boots.

Edited August 29, 2012 by JTUK

[alexclaber]

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1346259382' post='1787163']I am still not convinced 2 1x12s are the same as a single 2x12.[/quote]

They're not. You can't leave half a 2x12" at home!

But in terms of performance, if they're sized proportionately, tuned the same, same driver, proportional port area, all other details correct, then the performance will be essentially identical, with any differences coming down to minor variations causing personal taste preference, nothing absolute.

The bigger folly is assuming that all 1x12"s to have similar performance and all 2x12"s to have similar performance. The best 12" drivers can do what you'd need three of the lesser ones to achieve!

[stingrayPete1977]

I have not heard a pair of 1x12s sound as good as my Genz 2x12 which either mean that the Genz is the best or the pairs are slightly comprimised compared to a single box with two speakers inside, which even as a Genz fan boy will admit is more likely. Surely the missing piece of cab must make a huge difference as far as the tuning of them is concerned so how can they be tuned the same etc? I know we have been here many times before and my ears still outrule your science when it comes down to it from my own point of view, Im not saying your wrong but I can only go on what I hear not what I am told I should be hearing under some kind of scientific experiment.

[JTUK]

The cab dims might not add up the same between 2x112 and 212's but they will in regards to internal volume..which is why there shouldn't be much difference.
But you can only go with config that suits you for the reasons it suits... the overriding factor might be weight...or size or ease of carry or just that you feel you hear the difference

The true test and preference would be if you heard 2x112 and 212 through the same amp and the same model of cab. Assume you heard GB 112's..??

[stingrayPete1977]

Yes I have a GB Neox T 1x12 too, I need to try two of the front ported ones next to my Neox T 2x12 to be certain I guess.

[JTUK]

[size=6][sup]I've heard the NEOX range is good......even though I am not convinced about NEO..for some strange reason.[/sup][/size]

[alexclaber]

If you make two 1x12"s that are each identical to half your 2x12" and stack them, you won't be able to tell the difference. If you've compared the equivalent 1x12"s stacked and they don't sound the same then they're not identical, hence the difference. Most 1x12"s are not exact half 2x12"s so they sound different. Ironically where a 2x10" is often bigger than half a 4x10" a 1x12" is often smaller than half a 2x12" so they have less depth and fatness to the bottom and more of a midrange hump. Doesn't have to be that way though.

P.S. You can tune any size cab to any frequency, just change the port length and/or area. The internal volume and the port losses make up the other half of the LF behaviour (for a given woofer and enclosure stiffness). The midrange depends on the cab size/shape/damping etc (for a given woofer etc).