JTUK Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1345325476' post='1776394'] Does the bass sound of some slap and modern metal hide the fact that some people can't play a bass at all ? Think of the Geddy Lees, Phil Lynotts, Steve Harris sounding metal bassists in 70s and 80s who played clear crisp riffs that inspired. Then hear the modern drop D grunge and slap. Have some adopted aggression and a percussive sound to mask the fact they can't play at all ? Or am I just cynical.... [/quote] Personal pet hate.... I hate the clank sound..and have spent so much time trying to get rid of it. I think very few basssists can really make it work within their technique...but I think they go with it to make things simpler. If you have very heavy hands..both LH and RH, it might be nigh-on impossible to eliminate anyway...or it would be a major and total rethink which they don't choose to do. I think it is around now as it has always been hard to clean up..either technically by the player, or not helped at all by the sounds that the player grew to play with. You can bury it within a mix, upto a point, but when the bass is stripped down, it will exposed and it depends whether you like that or can live with it. ..or totally embrace it. Generally...... I file it under poor technique, but that is just my take on it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bilbo Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 Personally, I think a good player is a good player and a bad one is a bad one. Whether you are slapping or playing through a distortion, you can only fool some of the people some of the time. The whole punk movement was based on some pretty bad players but it didn't matter as the audience were not looking for instrumental virtuosity. But, in the cold light of day, raggy timing is raggy timing and most people will feel it even if they can't hear it. I think most mature adults on here will be able to acknowledge great players whose music they don't like but most of us can also recognise those youtube cowboys who think they can rip s*** out of something but can't. I don't hink slapping or distortion will hide anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1345459562' post='1777634'] Personally, I think a good player is a good player and a bad one is a bad one. Whether you are slapping or playing through a distortion, you can only fool some of the people some of the time. The whole punk movement was based on some pretty bad players but it didn't matter as the audience were not looking for instrumental virtuosity. But, in the cold light of day, raggy timing is raggy timing and most people will feel it even if they can't hear it. I think most mature adults on here will be able to acknowledge great players whose music they don't like but most of us can also recognise those youtube cowboys who think they can rip s*** out of something but can't. I don't hink slapping or distortion will hide anything. [/quote] +[size=4]1[/size] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 [quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1345381047' post='1776832'] Sort of sounded like Rush without the personality. [/quote] Exactly. Too many notes Maestro. Impressive, but ultimately unfulfilling. But what would I know? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
12stringbassist Posted August 20, 2012 Share Posted August 20, 2012 (edited) Slap is merely another style of playing bass. I'm not that good at it. I have a few bluffer lines I can play, but I don't pretend for a second to be skilled at it. When it's done properly, it can be REALLY marvelous, mixing notes and percussive sounds and showing off a sense of rhythm. It can be really impressive. I don't think it's masking any lack of musical ability. It's just another approach to playing. You get some genuises slapping and some average players. [url="http://www.dailymotion.com/video/x1vxeh_robert-palmer-discipline-of-love_music"]http://www.dailymoti...e-of-love_music[/url] Edited August 20, 2012 by 12stringbassist Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The title of the thread seems to be causing a bit of confusion. I believe it's not about slap in the Flea/Larry Graham sense, but more the tone achieved where (usually metal) players whack the strings to the extent that they 'slap' the frets and create a metallic clanky sound. The title also causes annoyance for pedants who think it should read ' .....play it correctly'. :-) Regarding the OP's question, I would refer to the quote in my signature. If people like the way it sounds, then it's 'right'. Just because that's not the way it was originally meant to be played, doesn't mean it can't be done. In fact, I'd go one further and suggest that this kind of open-mindedness and experimentation is crucial for moving music forwards. Trumpet mute, snare rimshots, thumb/slap/pop bass, all techniques which enrich the repertoire of the instrument. Saying that, I'm not into that clangy sound at all, but 'right' is what the listener likes the sound of. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ken_white Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 The thing that i find interesting is people are saying that you can't really hear the bass in modern tracks.. Well, from a lot of heavy and rock and metal i find the bands are generally quite tight, put together with a slightly mental drummer, all playing the same riffs together, so from the drums through to the guitars they are playing pretty much the same, especially with drop D giving the guitars a faster way to play. is the guitars treading bass territory or is it the fact that the bass is playing the same rift and stopping at the same points therefor blending in better. could it be down to the bass playing not being creative enough to come up with something different to the rest of the band, or is it the traditional bass line won't fit with the song? I can understand that if it was a new band and their bass player hiding behind bad slap techniques, but that would be more on your local scene than a signed band, modern bands have to be something special to even be considered being signed in the first place! personally, i don't play slap but i can appreciate a good slapper!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='Conan' timestamp='1345500808' post='1778350'] Exactly. Too many notes Maestro. Impressive, but ultimately unfulfilling. But what would I know? [/quote] Maybe this is more to your liking? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87UVbOIYT_k"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=87UVbOIYT_k[/url] Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Conan Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 [quote name='charic' timestamp='1345548465' post='1778616'] Maybe this is more to your liking? [/quote] Indeed it is! No offence to Myung - who is an incredible player. But much of his stuff with DT gets lost in the mix due to his tone and the fact that he is usually doubling what Petrucci plays. I think that is what the OP is on about to an extent? Although JM can hardly be described as being a poor player!! Are we talking about "slap" as a style of playing or about that typical tone employed by slap players - i.e. scooped?? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
charic Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 A scooped sound will generally hide any inadequacies, unfortunately for me I like my mids so when it came to recording for my band (drop c, death metal) any problems with intonation and the like stood out like a sore thumb... Hence having to get custom strings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JTUK Posted August 21, 2012 Share Posted August 21, 2012 Think we are talking about fretboard clank or slap rather than the slap technique... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Black Coffee Posted August 27, 2012 Author Share Posted August 27, 2012 Having read all the replies posted, I feel a bit bad for perhaps being a bit misleading with the title of the thread. Please accept my apologies. Im actually surprised it generated the replies which it did given this. Maybe should clarify that I wasn't referring to slap technique being bad or boring or indeed anything negative at all (in fact used in moderation I think it looks and sounds incredibly good), it was just an observation on my part that the bass sound has gotten so lost in some modern metal that the agressive clank and percussive playing style which is needed to be heard through the wall of noise he/she is competing with; disables the bass player from any individual expression and clear recognition with normal playing. Or maybe they are just a useless bass player and it suits them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xilddx Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 [quote name='bassman344' timestamp='1345326919' post='1776407'] I'm all for progress and music. Progress is good and comes with practice and should be everybody's goal. Look how far Flea took it, but there's only a few who slap like him and sound as good. I think he actually said that he abandoned the aggressive slap style because everybody jumped on after him. Maybe I am just cynical. To explain where this came from. I was led to write this after listening to some Cliff Burton, Geddy Lee, and Steve Harris from the 80s recently and it's sweet to hear compared to the stuff on the television music channels that my son watches. I am not wanting to be criticising modern sounds because one mans symphony is another mans earache and thats your right as a musician, just that the bass is sometimes drowned too regularly in a wall of distorted drop D guitar chunk, bump and grind. It's each to their own I suppose. [/quote] You miserable elitist old sod Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghost_Bass Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 Is the OP refering maybe to something like this? [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujEph5vFwmc"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ujEph5vFwmc[/url] In this particular case i believe that Fieldy's peculiar way to hit the strings isn't a sign of poor bass playing but just an addition to "his" sound, like anobody else using a fx, for example. I do believe that other bass players with much lesser skills can get away using a similar sound in his band mix. Clean and defined tone on a bass brings out all the players faults but just because you use a dirty sound doesn't mean you can't play it properly. Cheers Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dc2009 Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 [quote name='Machines' timestamp='1345373502' post='1776716'] Myung is awesome, very modest and happy to be standing at the back out of the spotlight. He can easily shred along with Petrucci and match his solo lines. Check this out, 12 mins but worth watching through: [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCz7RzGDsTw[/media] [/quote] O.o that boy got some chops! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looper Posted August 27, 2012 Share Posted August 27, 2012 I find the bass is often lost in a lot of "modern" music. Hard to know if it's poor arrangement, poor production or poor playing, but I rarely hear tunes with the clarity of instrumentation you hear on older recordings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 [quote name='Looper' timestamp='1346110262' post='1785525'] I find the bass is often lost in a lot of "modern" music. Hard to know if it's poor arrangement, poor production or poor playing, but I rarely hear tunes with the clarity of instrumentation you hear on older recordings. [/quote] Oh the irony, and you with Hendrix as an avatar...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 [quote name='Looper' timestamp='1346110262' post='1785525'] I find the bass is often lost in a lot of "modern" music. Hard to know if it's poor arrangement, poor production or poor playing, but I rarely hear tunes with the clarity of instrumentation you hear on older recordings. [/quote] What constitutes 'modern' music though? It's quite a statement, one I probably don't agree with because 'modern' music is pretty much all encompassing of a lot of different styles, genres and such. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Rock Posted August 28, 2012 Share Posted August 28, 2012 [quote name='51m0n' timestamp='1346162886' post='1785934'] Oh the irony, and you with Hendrix as an avatar...... [/quote] :-D Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
51m0n Posted August 29, 2012 Share Posted August 29, 2012 'Modern' music, so that woudl include Drum and Bass, Grime, Hip Hop, Electronica, Dance (all 43000 sub-genres), dub, reggae and a million other genres? Modern pop doesnt just have the bass buried, it has everything buried behind the vocal. So does vintage pop as often as not. The old adage is mix the vocals as loud as you dare, then turn them up 3dB. Because thats all the punters care about anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Looper Posted August 31, 2012 Share Posted August 31, 2012 Should probably try to defend my previous statement, but I was just having a bad day. Starting to feel old and confused by what the young people are listening to. I'm not even going to say anything on Hendrix's behalf. *Gets coat, backs away towards the door and tries to leave without anyone seeing* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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