How to learn tabs

[isteen]

[quote name='MoJoKe' timestamp='1335968077' post='1638779']
So, lesson to isteen; if you want to stir up a firestorm ask about TAB!!!
[/quote]

Yep! I see I managed to stir things up around here.
I have never used tabs, but I played in a band once, where the guitarist went on and on around about tabs.
Since I normally just play by ear - and I usually just wing it and get away with it - that's what I plan on doing in the future, I was just curious about tabs. Thanks to everyone for their inputs, I gather tabs just isn't the way to go ;-)

Cheers you lot

[Bilbo]

Tab



Staff Notation

[Bilbo]

Tab



Staff Notation

[Bilbo]

Tab



Staff Notation

[Bilbo]

Tab



Staff Notation

[Hobbayne]

That Jack White gets everywhere!!

[peteb]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336035455' post='1639683']
You have played with these guys but they are the ones who play music for a living and have done tours, played on sessions (records, TV themes, adverts, etc.)
[/quote]
You seem to doubt me sir!

The chap that I am particularly referring to is a very good keyboard player that I had the pleasure of playing quite a lot of gigs with last year, and who has on his CV a long stint touring the world with a 60s singer who is a genuine household name (he also played with a 70s pop singer who is pretty well known) and who worked in a studio and has a number of TV themes, ads, etc. to his credit.

It is always good to play with good players, not least because you can learn a lot from them. And one of the things that I learned from him is that he seemed to place great value on having a good ear! I would guess that he may be able to read music because of some of the work that he has done in the past, but I certainly saw no evidence of it….!

Edited May 3, 2012 by peteb

[peteb]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336035455' post='1639683']
I just want to stress that reading music is not just about reading music on gigs/sessions. Its a great way of learning about the mechanics of music. Learning parts by rote has its place but understanding notation is a massively useful skill when you are working with lots of different people. Writing ideas down becomes easier, studying other pieces of music like solos by other players, understanding theory and harmony, explaining intervals etc. Of course you can get by without it and millions do. You can also undo a screw with a butter knife at a pinch but why would you want to?
[/quote]
I would suggest that developing a good ear is far more important....

[Bilbo]

You can't read music and expect to play well without a good ear. The dots tell you what to play, the ear tells you how to play it. Its not a choice. You need both. A good ear will not, on its own, make you a great player. My wife has a great ear and can recall music from years ago and remember stuff in remarkable detail after hearing it only once but she can't play a note on any instrument. People like the idea that a good ear is the magic bullet because it allows them to remain comfortable with the fact that they can't read but still see themselves as credible. In truth, an informed ear is always more important than reading because reading is useless without it but, if you are serious about your playing, why settle for that?

I did a session last night and, in just over two hours (inc a tea break) recorded 4 tunes I had never heard with people I had never met before. The ear was important but it would have taken a lot longer without the dots. Tab would have been of no use at all.

[Bilbo]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1336068099' post='1640505']
You seem to doubt me sir!
[/quote]

Not at all. My point was that your reading friends had the pro gigs and you didn't. Is that evidence of cause and effect? Might be, might not.

[LiamPodmore]

I can easily read tab. I learnt it as the lowest line is the lowest (Pitch wise) string. I really need to learn to read music, and use my ear, i just don't have the time or motivation at the moment.

Liam

[phil625sxc]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336058583' post='1640291']
Tab



Staff Notation


[/quote]

lol, some nice visual analogies there !!! :-)

[Faithless]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1336068233' post='1640508']
I would suggest that developing a good ear is far more important....
[/quote]

And how would you develop your ear?

[MrTaff]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336117842' post='1641009']People like the idea that a good ear is the magic bullet because it allows them to remain comfortable with the fact that they can't read but still see themselves as credible. In truth, an informed ear is always more important than reading because reading is useless without it but, if you are serious about your playing, why settle for that?[/quote]

or maybe they have no use for reading, I don't do session work but I have done lots of dep work and not once have I been given any sheet music or tabs, for most players in a typical rock/punk/metal band reading simply isn't as important as people try to make out.

[peteb]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336117932' post='1641010']
Not at all. My point was that your reading friends had the pro gigs and you didn't. Is that evidence of cause and effect? Might be, might not.
[/quote]
Wasn't sure there - when I read back what I had posted I'm not sure that I wouldn't have doubted me!

I really don't know if reading was the deciding factor. I chased the gigs that I wanted and made contacts in the same way that they did, theirs just led to bigger things. I don't know whether reading got them in the position to be considered for the pro gigs or not. It helped that they were always great players!
[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336117842' post='1641009']
I did a session last night and, in just over two hours (inc a tea break) recorded 4 tunes I had never heard with people I had never met before. The ear was important but it would have taken a lot longer without the dots. Tab would have been of no use at all.
[/quote]
Reading undoubtedly makes gigs like that a lot easier and opens up opportunities (although these opportunities do seem to be pretty rare IME). I don't think that anyone is arguing that tab would be anything other than useless in that situation, only that you can spend a lifetime playing in bands (including ones containing guys who play for a living) without ever seeing a chart.....

Edited May 4, 2012 by peteb

[peteb]

[quote name='Faithless' timestamp='1336138924' post='1641493']
And how would you develop your ear?
[/quote]
You sit at home with your favoutite records, a bass and a pair of headphones and learn the parts to the smallest detail. Ideally you do this with a wide variety of players and styles, hopefully developing a style that will be the sum total of all of your influences yet still your own.

Then you play with as many different musicians as possible.....

Edited May 4, 2012 by peteb

[ras52]

[quote name='peteb' timestamp='1336153026' post='1641897']
It helped that they were always great players!
[/quote]
And perhaps reading helped them to become great players...!

[lowdown]

If your ears are telling you a Tab has [b]wrong[/b] notes etc, as many seem to complain about on this forum.
Why not use your ears to learn the [b]right[/b] notes on your CD/MP3/Youtube player ?
After hunting down and wasting time looking for a good [?] Tab part you could have learned the line by ear in that time.

Train your ears and learn to sight read.
Ears and reading chops are used on gigs/shows/sessions - not Tabs.


Garry

Edited May 5, 2012 by lowdown

[peteb]

[quote name='ras52' timestamp='1336157551' post='1641993']
And perhaps reading helped them to become great players...!
[/quote]
[color=#222222]Not necessarily! It's the same old argument, there are plenty of great players who can’t read (Billy Sheehan can’t read, neither can Jeff Beck, etc, etc,), but are they exceptions to the rule or are there so many exceptions that the rule does not apply? Probably the best player I have ever played with (also the most highly regarded locally) can’t read a note…..[/color]

[Bilbo]

Beck and Sheehan are monster players but they are pretty limited in their scope and their 'greatness' is of a 'big fish in small pond' nature. I don't want to take anything away from them because I like their work and Beck is undoubtedly one of the most expressive guitarists out there but I am talking about the big picture. They are like they are for all sorts of reasons and their dedication to their craft is unquestionable but I will never advocate a route that requires a player to be the 'fastest gun' rather than a rounded player because that way is the path of broken dreams. All the rock gods I used to play with when I was 17 gave up years ago. The ones who stick aroundtend to be the more rounded.

Ref the comment about 'having no use for reading'. My point is that, once you have that skill, it is incredibly useful and not just for reading on gigs (which, like most people, I rarely have to do).

[ahpook]

i'd be dubious of asking anyone who can read staff notation if tabs are better as it takes longer to lean to read music than tab, so anyone who's done it is hardly likely to say it's a waste of time

so there.

[Hector]

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1336234391' post='1642934']
i'd be dubious of asking anyone who can read staff notation if tabs are better as it takes longer to lean to read music than tab, so anyone who's done it is hardly likely to say it's a waste of time

so there.
[/quote]

Not to be rude, but I find this viewpoint totally, totally baffling.

IMO, it's strokes for folks. If you don't think it's worth your while to learn to read don't bother - it's about what makes you happiest. I personally think tab is utter sh*te, and kids stuff. It will make you a less consummate musician, you will find playing with other musicians harder, your theoretical understanding of the music will not be as good and you will be less employable. But if none of that matters, then the worst people will do is get on a huff about it on the internet.

I've waxed lyrical on here before about how learning to read music genuinely changed the course of my life. You can read it here:[url="http://basschat.co.uk/topic/3254-can-you-read-music/page__st__60"]http://basschat.co.uk/topic/3254-can-you-read-music/page__st__60[/url] Since then I've only had more work, and more fun and grown more as a musician. All this from someone who couldn't see the purpose of anything but tab for a solid 3 years.

I don't agree at all with any of the pro tabbers out there, but I totally respect your right to decide for yourself and I'm not forcing you to think about anything. It'd be great if learning to read made you as happy as it did me, and you found it as rewarding, but unless I have to work with you, your learning to read is slightly less important to me as which pants I'm wearing today

[ahpook]

[quote name='Hector' timestamp='1336239224' post='1643023']
Not to be rude, but I find this viewpoint totally, totally baffling.

[/quote]

perhaps it wasn't a very good joke then.

[Hector]

You can never be sure!

I'm hopeless at that, always tumbling into the sarchasm ([url="http://sarchasm.net/"]http://sarchasm.net/[/url]). Hope you didn't think I was too aggro - just trying to convey that whilst I don't really get people who don't learn to read and would encourage them to, I don't think there's any need to go crazy over it.

[Musky]

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1336232970' post='1642913']
[b]Beck and Sheehan are monster players but they are pretty limited in their scope and their 'greatness' is of a 'big fish in small pond' nature.[/b] I don't want to take anything away from them because I like their work and Beck is undoubtedly one of the most expressive guitarists out there but I am talking about the big picture. They are like they are for all sorts of reasons and their dedication to their craft is unquestionable but I will never advocate a route that requires a player to be the 'fastest gun' rather than a rounded player because that way is the path of broken dreams. All the rock gods I used to play with when I was 17 gave up years ago. The ones who stick aroundtend to be the more rounded.

Ref the comment about 'having no use for reading'. My point is that, once you have that skill, it is incredibly useful and not just for reading on gigs (which, like most people, I rarely have to do).
[/quote]

Big fish in a different pond, surely? I.e. a pond that doesn't require reading. I'm not sure being widely regarded as great players and having sold millions of albums qualifies as inhabiting a small pond.

But yeah, +1 as regards to the rest of your post.

Edit: I've just realised the pool you're talking about is the one for working musicians. So while a reader could go for both reading and non-reading gigs, someone who can't read can only go for the latter? Whilst you're completely correct, I'm not sure either of them are at the point in their career where the inability to read is a hindrance.

Not the case for people just starting out as a pro musician of course.

Edited May 6, 2012 by Musky