thepurpleblob Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I'm not surprised that these kids don't know Paul McCartney. What ired me more was the "I live in the now" attitude shown a number of times. As if "modern" music just appeared out of nowhere. From nothing. With no history. Arses Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Austin7 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1329224778' post='1539029'] I'm not surprised that these kids don't know Paul McCartney. What ired me more was the "I live in the now" attitude shown a number of times. As if "modern" music just appeared out of nowhere. From nothing. With no history. Arses [/quote] For lack of a better term, this is what might best be called "presentism." There seems to be a deliberate attempt to ignore the past, to be willfully unaware of history itself. The idea is that if it's from the past, it couldn't possibly be important. The only thing relevant is what is happening NOW. No one from the past could possibly be relevant, important or cool. Certainly, in the most general sense it's a good idea to live in the present and not dwell too much on the past. But that's different from being completely ignorant of history itself. In the U.S. at least, part of this happened because there has been such a lax attitude toward the study of history in schools. However, I think the phenomenon of "presentism" must be everywhere. Certainly, the Internet itself must have played some role in this. If George Santayana was correct when he said "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," then we are in deep trouble. Even now, there are plenty of people out there who seem to have very little idea, for instance, what the Cold War was really about. Many other examples could be given. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='thepurpleblob' timestamp='1329224778' post='1539029'] I'm not surprised that these kids don't know Paul McCartney. What ired me more was the "I live in the now" attitude shown a number of times. As if "modern" music just appeared out of nowhere. From nothing. With no history. Arses [/quote] That's the legacy of punk for you. Punk demanded you ignored everything that was ever understood to be commonly accepted wisdom about music - including the idea that to make music you should know something about it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1329234771' post='1539270'] That's the legacy of punk for you. Punk demanded you ignored everything that was ever understood to be commonly accepted wisdom about music - including the idea that to make music you should know something about it. [/quote] I think you're reading too much into punk. I would say it's goals were to eradicate ELP and wear straight trousers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='Austin7' timestamp='1329234454' post='1539262'] If George Santayana was correct when he said "those who cannot remember the past are condemned to repeat it," then we are in deep trouble. Even now, there are plenty of people out there who seem to have very little idea, for instance, what the Cold War was really about. Many other examples could be given. [/quote] Good post. Santayana [i]was[/i] correct. We [i]are[/i] in deep trouble. He also said, 'Only the dead have seen the end of war'. Members of the multi-millionaire cabinet such as GOVE are avid revisionists and are actively changing the way history is taught in UK schools. He [color=#444444]wants history text books re-written to portray Britain as a 'beacon of liberty.'[/color] [color=#444444]Given Britain's shameful imperialist past, this would be risible if it weren't so shocking. He should be lashed until he drops, IMHO.[/color] [color=#444444]He's a talentless, over-privileged, jumped-up hack. How did he get to be Secretary of State for Education?[/color] [color=#444444]Oh right, the money...[/color] Edited February 14, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
musophilr Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='Low End Bee' timestamp='1329235256' post='1539291'] I think you're reading too much into punk. I would say it's goals were to eradicate ELP and wear straight trousers. [/quote] If you say so, but to me the whole thing seemed horribly destructive. I quite understand a backlash against pap like "How deep is your love" but IMO it really did throw the baby out with the bathwater. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigRedX Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 For me Punk was about not accepting (the) status quo. That just because rock music has been created in a particular way in the past doesn't mean that you should continue to create it that was in the future. And it needed to be horribly destructive to make a sufficiently big enough impact against the rather pedestrian music that prevailed at the time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveK Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1329234771' post='1539270'] That's the legacy of punk for you. Punk demanded you ignored everything that was ever understood to be commonly accepted wisdom about music - including the idea that to make music you should know something about it. [/quote]Yep, I was going to post something along similar lines, but didn't really know where to start. So I'll just say that it was a sad day for music when punk happened, placing attitude above any real ability. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Low End Bee Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='musophilr' timestamp='1329235421' post='1539297'] If you say so, but to me the whole thing seemed horribly destructive. I quite understand a backlash against pap like "How deep is your love" but IMO it really did throw the baby out with the bathwater. [/quote] It's for another thread really. But I'd blame the 'music biz' if I where you. They jumped ship because they could see a quick buck in punk and nobody wants yesterdays papers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dave_bass5 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 I thought Punk was quite funny. It seemed (mostly) to be a load of youngsters, all dressing in the same style, playing anti establishment music that consisted of 3 chords (I, V, VI). so original. Kids these days have their own hero's which maybe a lot of us older generation cant name, and these are current song writers etc. We will come up with reasons why we cant name them, yet be amazed that the younger gen cant name our hero's. Time moves on. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) ** Transferred to Low End Bee's thread about Punk ** Edited February 14, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
risingson Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329236277' post='1539328'] I'm not sure I would necessarily agree with that. Punk as of itself was not particularly interesting as far as I was concerned, but it was a catalyst that led to later bands and artists (who did have real ability) getting exposure where they may not have done previously. [/quote] Once some punk bands started to get a taste of success, I'm sure that the drive for success prevailed. Some bands refined their sound; The Stranglers wrote 'Golden Brown', a timeless British classic. Others totally sacrificed their integrity and started appearing in butter adverts, aka John Lydon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) I haven't read the entire thread but I do generally think it's a bit counter productive to be derisory and critical of people for what they don't know as it creates an atmosphere of piousness, people will discover things on their merits, many kids don't know who McCartney is simply because he is not in musical vogue currently... can you call to mind all the music heroes for the 40 years prior to your teens? I doubt it very much... do you even know who Jerome Kern is? Lighten up, let people discover, and don't criticise their lack of knowledge, because by doing so you are simply cementing it's continuance. Edited February 14, 2012 by jakenewmanbass Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1329239353' post='1539409'] ...do you even know who Jerome Kern is? [/quote] 'Who?' Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
paul_5 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 Just to clear everything up: Paul McCartney was in that band that was ruined by that woman. True on both counts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329239423' post='1539412'] 'Who?' [/quote] A great writer from the American songbook era... popular around 40 years before 1960 or thereabouts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1329239737' post='1539419'] A great writer from the American songbook era... popular around 40 years before 1960 or thereabouts [/quote] Yes, I know... 'Who?' is one of his better-known compositions. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329239931' post='1539424'] Yes, I know... 'Who?' is one of his better-known compositions. [/quote] I figured you were joshing but took it as an opportunity to make the point a little more firmly Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1329239353' post='1539409'] I haven't read the entire thread but I do generally think it's a bit counter productive to be derisory and critical of people for what they don't know as it creates an atmosphere of piousness, people will discover things on their merits, many kids don't know who McCartney is simply because he is not in musical vogue currently... can you call to mind all the music heroes for the 40 years prior to your teens? I doubt it very much... do you even know who Jerome Kern is? Lighten up, let people discover, and don't criticise their lack of knowledge, because by doing so you are simply cementing it's continuance. [/quote] Some very good points in there. I certainly cannot tell you who was popular 40 years before I was born - probably Mozart It does put it into perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='Austin7' timestamp='1329234454' post='1539262'] For lack of a better term, this is what might best be called "presentism." There seems to be a deliberate attempt to ignore the past, to be willfully unaware of history itself. The idea is that if it's from the past, it couldn't possibly be important. The only thing relevant is what is happening NOW. [/quote] I take your point. Many young (and not-so-young) people consider the past to be irrelevant. Many older people consider the present to be worse than the past. Neither position sets one up for a happy and productive life. A degree of compromise and open-mindedness goes a long way, which is why I excorciate those who would intemperately condemn others for not sharing their scale of values. Particularly when it comes to elderly pop stars. As mentioned above, "WTF is PMcC" has become a (probably short-lived) internet meme. Those greybeards who have bunched their panties over this minor blip should put on 'Yesterday' and go and have a nice lie-down. All things must pass. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='jakenewmanbass' timestamp='1329240004' post='1539425'] I figured you were joshing but took it as an opportunity to make the point a little more firmly [/quote] Very good, now we [i]both [/i]look like arses! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discreet Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 (edited) [quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1329240129' post='1539427'] All things must pass. [/quote] Who was George Harrison? Good points though. The current mrs discreet hardly ever lives in the present, preferring to worry about the future and feel guilty about the past. I'm a bit more Zen about it, me. But sometimes our paths cross, usually next to the fridge. However, it can be difficult to learn from history when those who write it always have an agenda. Nothing is real! Life flows on, Within You And Without You. Edited February 14, 2012 by discreet Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jakenewmanbass Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329240153' post='1539428'] Very good, now we [i]both [/i]look like arses! [/quote] I'll have you know I'm both an arse and a pedant... don't forget the pedant!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blademan_98 Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329240515' post='1539437'] Who was George Harrison? Good points though. The current mrs discreet hardly ever lives in the present, preferring to worry about the future and feel guilty about the past. I'm a bit more Zen about it, me. But sometimes our paths cross, usually next to the fridge. However, it can be difficult to learn from history when those who write it always have an agenda. Nothing is real! Life flows on, Within You And Without You. [/quote] Wow, that was deeply profound Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skankdelvar Posted February 14, 2012 Share Posted February 14, 2012 [quote name='discreet' timestamp='1329240515' post='1539437'] Nothing is real! [/quote] ... and nothing to get hung (up) about. Jai Discreet - Om. Funny how people don't go "Ommmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm" anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.