Singing and earplugs

[essexbasscat]

There's some interest in another thread about earplugs elsewhere. I didn't want to hijack that one with my question, so here's another thread about earplugs.

Does anyone sing while wearing earplugs ?

I have a pair of ER15's which have been a blessing to have in case the guitarist cranks the volume again

However, singing with the earplugs in is a bit of a challenge, as some frequencies tend to be muffled by the earplugs. As a result, I tend to modify my singing voice, which just makes singing more difficult. I'm also not clear about the kind of sound my voice is creating, which leads into cycles of doubt, which in turn hinders performance.

I've ended up removing the earplugs to get around these problems. I'm much happier with the clearer feedback I get for my voice, but it's back to square one on the earplug issue.

Any thoughts BC ?

Thanks

[nottswarwick]

Once I got used to them I actually find it very much easier to sing. It is like singing underwater for me, I can pitch really easily, and I don't strain my voice either, which I used to do without them if monitoring was poor.

So for me I don't even have to worry about my vocal level in the wedges, as I can hear myself perfectly.

[dc2009]

Same problem, love earplugs at band practice, but can't hit a note if I can't hear myself well...

[Paul S]

[quote name='nottswarwick' post='1349311' date='Aug 23 2011, 07:02 PM']It is like singing underwater for me, I can pitch really easily, and I don't strain my voice either, which I used to do without them if monitoring was poor.[/quote]

Singing underwater? Are you a whale, perhaps, or a dolphin? If I tried that I would drown.

[Monckyman]

I have a client who wears these while singing, forbids any vocal in the monitor and pitches quite well.
I would say for those who need clear monitoring, the ER15s may not be the best choice, and perhaps some in ear monitors at a safe level would provide protection from snares and cymbals etc, while providing clear vocal monitoring.
Saves carrying a wedge also.
MM

[essexbasscat]

What people are saying so far is really beginning to dig into this topic for me. I'd like to ask a few questions though;

- Nottswarwick. Was there some realisation for you that made it easy to pitch vocals without external feedback ? or was it a case of practice, practice, practice ?
Also, while you're singing, where's your focus ? is it on your 'internal voice' ? or something else ? how do you discern your vocal volume level in the greater context of the band as a whole ?


- Monckyman. If you're wearing in -ear monitors, can you still hear the rest of the band clearly ? How do you know when you've reached the safe limit for in-ear volume levels ?


Really curious of Essex here......

thanks all

[Doddy]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1349395' date='Aug 23 2011, 08:16 PM']If you're wearing in -ear monitors, can you still hear the rest of the band clearly ? How do you know when you've reached the safe limit for in-ear volume levels ?[/quote]

You can hear the band fine with in ears......most times it's even better because you can have your own mix of
whatever you want. Safe limit? I don't know.......I just turn the volume up to where it's clear but not uncomfortable.

[Norm]

[quote name='dc2009' post='1349312' date='Aug 23 2011, 07:02 PM']Same problem, love earplugs at band practice, but can't hit a note if I can't hear myself well...[/quote]

Me too, at first. But I have persevered & am getting better at singing with them in.
My wife was noticing my increasing deafness so got on to me about wearing the plugs I already had, which I wasn't wearing as I was struggling to pitch. I was singing lead in that band but now in new band just doing backing vox.
I found letting myself "hear" my voice in my head allowed me to pitch in with the main singer. I was fighting it before, now I just relax & let it out. I'm never going to be a great singer but I've got better at it since I've been doing this.
Cheers & keep those plugs in!
Norm

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1349420' date='Aug 23 2011, 08:32 PM']You can hear the band fine with in ears......most times it's even better because you can have your own mix of
whatever you want. Safe limit? I don't know.......I just turn the volume up to where it's clear but not uncomfortable.[/quote]


Something about in -ear monitoring. If the soundman suddenly turns up the monitor volume without warning, does the volume correspondingly rise in your ears ? are your ears vulnerable to a clumsy hand on the monitor volume control ?

pardon ?

Edited August 23, 2011 by essexbasscat

[Doddy]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1349429' date='Aug 23 2011, 08:40 PM']Something about in -ear monitoring. If the soundman suddenly turns up the monitor volume without warning, does the volume correspondingly rise in your ears ? are your ears vulnerable to a clumsy hand on the monitor volume control ?

pardon ? [/quote]

Yeah.
Although most systems have a volume control on the receiver,and most wireless ones have a limiter.
I use a wired system which has an volume control on it which is not set too loud. To be fair though,
the soundman must be a bit of of dick if he fiddles with your monitor volume.

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='Paul S' post='1349319' date='Aug 23 2011, 07:08 PM']Singing underwater? Are you a whale, perhaps, or a dolphin? If I tried that I would drown. [/quote]

lol I'm not a Dolphin, no. I mean like lying in the bath. You need to keep you mouth out of the water....

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1349501' date='Aug 23 2011, 09:15 PM']Yeah.
Although most systems have a volume control on the receiver,and most wireless ones have a limiter.
I use a wired system which has an volume control on it which is not set too loud. To be fair though,
the soundman must be a bit of of dick if he fiddles with your monitor volume.[/quote]


The soundman is the guitarist in control of the PA. He likes to turn the volume of the whole PA up for the second half and some other times too, so erm .....

[Doddy]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1349574' date='Aug 23 2011, 09:50 PM']The soundman is the guitarist in control of the PA. He likes to turn the volume of the whole PA up for the second half and some other times too, so erm .....[/quote]
As long as he leaves your monitor channel alone it doesn't matter if he ups the PA volume-it won't go up in your ears.

[Dood]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1349307' date='Aug 23 2011, 06:55 PM']There's some interest in another thread about earplugs elsewhere. I didn't want to hijack that one with my question, so here's another thread about earplugs.

Does anyone sing while wearing earplugs ?

I have a pair of ER15's which have been a blessing to have in case the guitarist cranks the volume again

However, singing with the earplugs in is a bit of a challenge, as some frequencies tend to be muffled by the earplugs. As a result, I tend to modify my singing voice, which just makes singing more difficult. I'm also not clear about the kind of sound my voice is creating, which leads into cycles of doubt, which in turn hinders performance.

I've ended up removing the earplugs to get around these problems. I'm much happier with the clearer feedback I get for my voice, but it's back to square one on the earplug issue.

Any thoughts BC ?

Thanks [/quote]


Yes! Infact I positively rely on my ER15/25's for singing! I've not used a vocal monitor for my own voice since using these 'plugs and my fellow musicians have reported that they have noticed a dramatic improvement in the tone and pitching of my voice. Ok, so I'm no Myles Kennedy, but even so - I can run my own harmonies without getting confuzzed!

Here's my trick - I select the value of filter so that the music 'outside of my head' is near to the same volume or a bit quieter than my 'voice inside my head' if that makes sense. I can hear my bass clearly and I pitch my harmonies against my bass NOT the other band members. Thus I can concentrate on getting my notes right and leave the other guys to concentrate on theirs. Its particularly useful as I am 'one of those' who loves the sound of 3 and 4 part harmonies, but whilst I am busy enjoying them, I screw up - so sadly, it's best if I cant hear what the other guys are doing as much as what I am. I therefore ask for no vocals in my monitors at all!

Hang in there with the plugs, I had a similar problem, but I found listening back to recordings helped me identify what I needed to adjust when I sing.

Hope this helps!

[nottswarwick]

[quote name='dood' post='1349597' date='Aug 23 2011, 10:08 PM']Yes! Infact I positively rely on my ER15/25's for singing! I've not used a vocal monitor for my own voice since using these 'plugs and my fellow musicians have reported that they have noticed a dramatic improvement in the tone and pitching of my voice. Ok, so I'm no Myles Kennedy, but even so - I can run my own harmonies without getting confuzzed!

Here's my trick - I select the value of filter so that the music 'outside of my head' is near to the same volume or a bit quieter than my 'voice inside my head' if that makes sense. I can hear my bass clearly and I pitch my harmonies against my bass NOT the other band members. Thus I can concentrate on getting my notes right and leave the other guys to concentrate on theirs. Its particularly useful as I am 'one of those' who loves the sound of 3 and 4 part harmonies, but whilst I am busy enjoying them, I screw up - so sadly, it's best if I cant hear what the other guys are doing as much as what I am. I therefore ask for no vocals in my monitors at all!

Hang in there with the plugs, I had a similar problem, but I found listening back to recordings helped me identify what I needed to adjust when I sing.

Hope this helps![/quote]

exactly, keep at it, it will come.

[WalMan]

Yup I find I have stopped using the IEM's and with the bit I get back with the plugs its fine. Mind you I could have sworn from the ACS literature that I shouldn't be hearing myself inside my head (if you know what I mean) with the plugs in

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='dood' post='1349597' date='Aug 23 2011, 10:08 PM']Yes! Infact I positively rely on my ER15/25's for singing! I've not used a vocal monitor for my own voice since using these 'plugs and my fellow musicians have reported that they have noticed a dramatic improvement in the tone and pitching of my voice. Ok, so I'm no Myles Kennedy, but even so - I can run my own harmonies without getting confuzzed!

Here's my trick - I select the value of filter so that the music 'outside of my head' is near to the same volume or a bit quieter than my 'voice inside my head' if that makes sense. I can hear my bass clearly and I pitch my harmonies against my bass NOT the other band members. Thus I can concentrate on getting my notes right and leave the other guys to concentrate on theirs. Its particularly useful as I am 'one of those' who loves the sound of 3 and 4 part harmonies, but whilst I am busy enjoying them, I screw up - so sadly, it's best if I cant hear what the other guys are doing as much as what I am. I therefore ask for no vocals in my monitors at all!

Hang in there with the plugs, I had a similar problem, but I found listening back to recordings helped me identify what I needed to adjust when I sing.

Hope this helps![/quote]


Hi again Dood, how you doing ?

Yes, like you, I enjoy playing bass and being part of some 3 + 4 part harmonies, Silence is Golden, That Boy and Nowhere Man - The Beatles etc. The more harmonies the better !

Sometimes, we end up busking tunes and creating harmonies on the fly. Other times it's a quick "You doing the high or the low ones ?" we all know where we are with the well practiced numbers, but we're often listening to what's going on and sorting things out in real time, or changing things in the moment to keep things interesting. In that kind of environment, I'm listening closely to the other singers for cues, so clarity is really helpful. That clarity also helps me to create the tone of voice for a given part in a certain song, something I'm working on more than ever. Not great at it, but working on it.

Which is why I struggle with the muting of certain frequencies with ear plugs ! It's also one of the reasons why I find it easier to play at quieter volumes.

I've tried leaving the one earplug in for the ear that's closest to that high hat and cymbal (ouch !). It's a compromise, but not best of neither.

Do earplugs always muffle frequencies to protect the ears or are there models / brands out there that just lower the volume levels without sounding muffled or flattening out selected frequencies ?

Thanks for your post Dood, it helped with sorting out this topic in general

Also, thanks to everyone else for your thoughts on this, it's appreciated.

[Monckyman]

Just a last word for IEMs, as was mentioned the wireless packs have Limiters on them to prevent ear damage and I`ve never had a problem with load drummers and deaf singers.
Also, if you want that extra safety you can Mark/tape off your monitor master output.
Some people, (and this is more stuff and time) make simple xlr split cables and an 8 way loom and take what channells they want into a small 8 chan desk, which then goes to the IEM pack, so you can do your own mix and it`s safe from meddling.
This is very similar to recording studio monitoring setups.
Before you go this route though, persevere with the 15s, as if you crack it, you wont need all that crap and you`ll save a couple of hundred £
Good luck!

[WalMan]

[quote name='essexbasscat' post='1349693' date='Aug 23 2011, 11:12 PM']Do earplugs always muffle frequencies to protect the ears or are there models / brands out there that just lower the volume levels without sounding muffled or flattening out selected frequencies ?[/quote]
The [url="http://www.hearingprotection.co.uk/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=145&Itemid=287"]ACS Pro17's[/url] I have give a pretty flat response across the range (to my knac'd ears anyway) so I don't get the muffling, just a general cut, which seems to work OK most of the time.

As before at the mo on quieter gigs I find it can be too much of a cut and I end up taking one plug out but otherwise no probs.

[Thurbs]

I got one of these:

[url="http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1696"]http://www.samsontech.com/products/product...cfm?prodID=1696[/url]

and it's perfect, you can create your own mix of vox + band or vox + bass, depending on your set-up.

How much for perfection? £35.

[essexbasscat]

[quote name='Thurbs' post='1350305' date='Aug 24 2011, 02:45 PM']I got one of these:

[url="http://www.samsontech.com/products/productpage.cfm?prodID=1696"]http://www.samsontech.com/products/product...cfm?prodID=1696[/url]

and it's perfect, you can create your own mix of vox + band or vox + bass, depending on your set-up.

How much for perfection? £35.[/quote]


That looks like a really handy tool. How do you use yours Thurbs ? the output is for headphones, but there's more than one way of processing that signal of course.

[mrtcat]

I must admit my one disappointment in my ER15s is the fact that the ACS litterature says you won't get that "underwater" effect of your voice booming in your head. That's exactly the effect I get. However perseverence helped my learn to use that voice and hear myself well. With regards to what the public hear you just need to sound check well and trust that the sound won't change significantly thru the gig. I love harmonies but my ears are more valuable and if I knacker them I'll not be able to hear, sing or play another harmony.