Is computer recording really worth all the hassle?

[lowdown]

[quote name='dood' post='1151981' date='Mar 6 2011, 10:24 PM']Reaper is fantastic. I love it and yes, it's nice and light on the system too.


However, you can still run 32 bit software, drivers and plugins on a 64bit OS. W7 has 'bridging' to enable it.[/quote]

Also 32 bit software can access 4 gig ram on a 64 bit system [well Cubase does - so i presume the others do]

XP 32 bit could take 4 gig ram, but you could never get that for various reasons.....
You had to use the 3 gig switch, and that would only get you 3 gig if you were lucky, and usually less 2.75 i think.

This small programme is the most successful at the moment for consistent 32/64 bit plug in bridge.

[url="http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/"]http://jstuff.wordpress.com/jbridge/[/url]


Garry

[thisnameistaken]

I wanted to use Reaper for the EP we're currently recording but our producer wanted us to use Pro Tools. I'm basically the recording engineer and arranger on this project but we're giving it to someone else to do some creative production and he only works with Pro Tools. Reaper is excellent though, I love the UI, very advanced and modern but intuitive.

[TomKent]

I've got a simple as hell set up, and I produce things to a semi-professional/professional level. (I've got no more equipment than Peter Andre's producer)

2010 21.5" iMac with 4GB ram.
2006 Focusrite Saffire interface
2007 SE2200A Mic
1973 Casio VZ1 (for midi input mainly)

and a monitor system I built myself a long time ago which has a frequency band I still can't find any speakers will match or beat.

I use Logic 8 btw.

Edited March 7, 2011 by TomKent

[thebrig]

[quote name='Blademan_98' post='1151974' date='Mar 6 2011, 10:21 PM']Does your hardware support the extra ram?

The OS will but thats only if the motherboard can take it.

Just something you may wish to research before purchasing.

[/quote]
According to PC World it will.

[thebrig]

[quote name='lowdown' post='1152025' date='Mar 6 2011, 10:57 PM']i went W7 64 OS and 64 bit machine,
Quad core AMD & 8 gig of good RAM, and it was not that expensive, although that was desktop.
To be honest that would be a great move. Most of the DAW's all have the option of 64 bit software,
And most of the Audio interfaces have 64 bit drivers.
If you need any help PM your email, or if you want to chat on the phone no problem.




Garry[/quote]
Thanks Garry.

[willyf87]

I've only had a quick skim of the posts so sorry if any of this has been covered!!! I personally would swap from PC to Mac for starters, i've never had any issues with various mac devices, just so you have an idea indoors I use a cheap alesis express 2 in/out with a macbook G4 only 512mb of ram with snow leopard into logic express 9, never had any problems recording, when I go down to record my band collectively we have two presonus fire pods 8in 8 out, we chain them together 16 in/out with absolutely no problems running onto my laptop. I think at one point we had about 12 tracks running at one time.

I guess all I'm trying to say is you don't need the best gear, i use the avaliable plug ins on logic and have made some good demos. If you wanted to go a step further you could always outsource the mastering process.

If i were you I would maybe look out for a 2nd hand fire pod or 2 if you want to record everything at once. This is also something I'm looking into doing to save time but havent tried. I'd also recommend a mac book or such like, maybe with a couple of gigs of ram just so you know you have plenty of power, get an external hard drive and save all your stuff straight to there, this keeps the laptop running at optimum. I'd go for logic express or studio its up to you but express does everything I need and is cheaper. After that all you need is mics, stands, cables and some decent headphones/monitor speakers. I'm pretty sure you could get all this gear for under £1500 brand new, if you go 2nd hand like I did then defnitely under a grand.

[urb]

[quote name='willyf87' post='1152426' date='Mar 7 2011, 01:03 PM']I've only had a quick skim of the posts so sorry if any of this has been covered!!! I personally would swap from PC to Mac for starters, i've never had any issues with various mac devices, just so you have an idea indoors I use a cheap alesis express 2 in/out with a macbook G4 only 512mb of ram with snow leopard into logic express 9, never had any problems recording, when I go down to record my band collectively we have two presonus fire pods 8in 8 out, we chain them together 16 in/out with absolutely no problems running onto my laptop. I think at one point we had about 12 tracks running at one time.

I guess all I'm trying to say is you don't need the best gear, i use the avaliable plug ins on logic and have made some good demos. If you wanted to go a step further you could always outsource the mastering process.

If i were you I would maybe look out for a 2nd hand fire pod or 2 if you want to record everything at once. This is also something I'm looking into doing to save time but havent tried. I'd also recommend a mac book or such like, maybe with a couple of gigs of ram just so you know you have plenty of power, get an external hard drive and save all your stuff straight to there, this keeps the laptop running at optimum. I'd go for logic express or studio its up to you but express does everything I need and is cheaper. After that all you need is mics, stands, cables and some decent headphones/monitor speakers. I'm pretty sure you could get all this gear for under £1500 brand new, if you go 2nd hand like I did then defnitely under a grand.[/quote]

+1

I was a PC user for many years and was completely set to go the way of Cubase but as soon as I started trying to use a drum module to generate beats etc it all started going horribly wrong, and finding a solution proved incredibly frustrating... my misses has always used Macs and so about six years ago I took the plunge and bought a secondhand G4 15" Powerbook - and Garageband. I'd already got a US122 soundcard and that was doing a pretty good job at sending a signal from my bass into the laptop...

... so that was enough to get me going, recording some OK demos, recording some new ideas, admittedly in quite a limited way.

Now, to make a long story short, I've stuck with Macs as I really like Logic (it's not without its bugs) but with 4GB of RAM and a better Mackie soundcard, some powered KRK monitors, and Logic Pro (that I've installed on both my desktop and laptop macs) - I'm guessing in total I've probably spent roughly £2K on my stuff so far, admittedly I've upgraded my basses too - but I'm currently looking at a a good compressor and a quality DI box.

My one nugget of advice is if I had to recommend a set up I'd go Mac, purely based on experience, Logic is great for composing, but Pro Tools is better for live tracking - both are now at affordable price points - both run on Macs and both have a load of great plugins that are very powerful and sound superb. But also think about what you want to do with your set up - if I want to track a full live band I'd most likely hire a studio for a day and then take the raw files away after to do post-production mixing etc. I know that I can do that at home, I know also that if I want to use my drum module in multi-output mode Logic can handle that as well.

So think about that - a Macbook Pro with 4GB of Ram and a decent soundcard will be enough to get going - monitors, a mic, DI box, compressor, MIDI keyboard are a few more things that will enhance your basic set up - but again you can start real basic and add more stuff as you go.

END BIT:

[b]One of the best things I bought was a year's worth of One-To-One lessons in Logic at the Apple store on Regents Street in London for £80 - you can go for an hour lesson every week and the people they have tutoring you really know their stuff - I learnt a lot and now feel fairly confident about diving in and creating a new tune - I also work about ten times faster than I did when I started farting around in Garageband! More info here [url="http://www.apple.com/retail/onetoone/"]http://www.apple.com/retail/onetoone/[/url]
[/b]

It's all very well owning all the right gear (basses too) and not knowing how to use it - Garageband is amazing and can do pretty much everything a pro-level DAW can (to a point) so it's also worth factoring in 'learn time'

Lastly - here's a tune I started recording in Garageband and finished off in Logic Pro - with about three or four years between starting it and finishing it!

[url="http://mikeflynnsurb.bandcamp.com/track/boogie"]http://mikeflynnsurb.bandcamp.com/track/boogie[/url]

The moral being I got the ideas down in a basic set up and gave it a better sound via a pro-ish set up... I still want a 2 X Quad-Core tower but that's somewhere later down the line...

Hope that helps

M

[BassMunkee]

You're gonna need a PC for start.
As others have said, do you really need all that in at once?

Also - ditch Sonar, I used it and it was a nightmare. Use Reaper; it's cheap, awesome, will not hog any resources and is just as good if not better than Sonar.
Seriously.

[thisnameistaken]

I'm surprised that some people are strongly recommending Macs over PCs. Yes Logic is only available on the Mac, but Reaper is excellent and will run on PC or Mac, Pro Tools is excellent and will run on PC or Mac, Cubase... I'm not a fan of, but it will run on PC or Mac. Why does every thread about software always end up full of platform fanboy bullshit?

Unless you seriously believe Logic is the only way to go (and it isn't, there are a few DAWs), you don't need to spend all the extra money on a Mac.

[willyf87]

Lol, people like what they like, I've tried PC and Macs, and much prefer them, They are pricey but you can get good ones on the bay for a lot less, they just seem to run a lot less glitchy, I only used PC for years soon as i tried Mac I was hooked, the fact it had logic was a bonus really. I just prefer logic because the plugins are excellent and I find the interface user friendly.

If PC is all you know and see no reason to change then go for it! That reaper program seems to get good reviews but not tried it myself.

We can agree however Cubase is pretty awful.

[51m0n]

I think you would do well to reconsider recording on computers for a moment.

You have two seperate tasks to achieve. Firstly tracking, secondly mixing.

In the dim and distant past the two at the level we are talking about happened in a project studio onto tape (or adat).

A more homegrown approach was the old 4 or 8 track tape.

That was what consumers could hope to achieve.

At the same time, going back ad infinitum the 'big boys' have enjoyed all sorts of location recording with full on broadcast style trucks (I know the Quo used to do a lot of recording at Stanbridge Farm using their own broadcast truck for instance, Bob told me all about the trouble they had getting it up the lane!).

These days you can use a computer for recording, but all laptops are significantly less powerful than desktops to this day, and whilst they are fine for recording and mixing in a very limited process (ie not too many tracks at a time) lappies and all the assorted guff required for recording (interfaces etc) arent really very good for recording or mixing with out a hardware interface (IMO).

I would really really suggest you stick to a PC if thats what you prefer (I've seen macs go wrong enough times to know that they definitely can give as much grief as a PC), go over to Reaper (if nothing else because it is far more lightweight on your machine) and mix with that.

When it comes to tracking though you need a device to capture sound and record it as wavs as well as possible for the money, and I still reckon the Zoom kit hits the mark, I'd suggest you consider a pair of R16s for tracking then mix down on the PC in a DAW, file transfer is a snip, whats not to like?

[lowdown]

[quote name='willyf87' post='1153728' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:10 PM']We can agree however Cubase is pretty awful.[/quote]


Based on what?
Just curious, and nothing else...





Garry

Edited March 8, 2011 by lowdown

[Skol303]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1153523' date='Mar 8 2011, 10:37 AM']I'm surprised that some people are strongly recommending Macs over PCs.[/quote]

^ You're right that this kind of discussion normally ends up with the usual PC vs Mac fanboy debate! ;-)

I personally use Macs, always have. My current machine hasn't crashed - not once - in nearly two years of music production. Seriously; not one single crash.

Whether or not that's worth the extra expense is obviously a personal choice. But for me it is.

Other than that, it's all about the software and ensuring you have a fast enough machine to run it on. I personally use Reason/Record software (developed by Propellerhead), but I'd strongly recommend Audacity and/or Reaper for anyone starting out - both excellent softwares, both run on just about any PC or MC and are available for next to no money. Can't argue with that!

[ironside1966]

[quote name='willyf87' post='1153728' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:10 PM']We can agree however Cubase is pretty awful.[/quote]

Why?

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='willyf87' post='1153728' date='Mar 8 2011, 01:10 PM']We can agree however Cubase is pretty awful.[/quote]

Nah I'm not biting. I haven't used Cubase for a few years so I've no idea what it's like now, but it was the first DAW I used and eventually I got sick of the interface, I just feel like I can work faster in Pro Tools or Reaper, Cubase (of old) used to feel like it got in the way sometimes. Especially when editing. But I wouldn't tell anyone it was awful because I don't think I'm in a position to say so, and there must be plenty of people who prefer it because they're still shifting units.

[quote name='Skol303' post='1154159' date='Mar 8 2011, 05:50 PM']^ You're right that this kind of discussion normally ends up with the usual PC vs Mac fanboy debate! ;-)

I personally use Macs, always have. My current machine hasn't crashed - not once - in nearly two years of music production. Seriously; not one single crash.

Whether or not that's worth the extra expense is obviously a personal choice. But for me it is.[/quote]

I've not had a crash using my PC / Pro Tools setup either. It's easier to create an unstable Windows environment that's for sure, so PCs tend to behave better when they're being operated by experts, that's not a criticism of you personally but a lot of people who have problems with Windows are responsible for those problems! Microsoft don't really deserve a lot of the criticism they receive. Windows is a bit of a mess sure but they have a lot more variables to deal with than Apple do, and they don't have the luxury of a rock-solid BSD kernel under the bonnet.

For the sake of balance I actually received a Macbook Pro in the mail today and so far I think it's a really nice little computer, and I will be using that as my portable studio from now on (although that's not why I bought it - I need a Unix-based laptop for work), but I am not about to start evangelising about it. I really don't get why people feel the need to be defined by the shiny objects they spend their disposable income on. Tiny weiners I suppose.

But yeah Macs hardware is heinously overpriced, so you really have to value the OS at £500 or so for it to make sense. The OS is easily worth that to me, at the moment, in my current circumstances, but I can imagine it wouldn't be to most people. I'm sure plenty of people buy them just for the badge, but those people are dickheads. I've already ordered an Android sticker to plaster over the Apple logo...

[urb]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1154362' date='Mar 8 2011, 07:43 PM']But yeah Macs hardware is heinously overpriced, so you really have to value the OS at £500 or so for it to make sense. The OS is easily worth that to me, at the moment, in my current circumstances, but I can imagine it wouldn't be to most people. I'm sure plenty of people buy them just for the badge, but those people are dickheads. I've already ordered an Android sticker to plaster over the Apple logo...[/quote]


Good for you...

But all us Mac users aren't so enamoured with Steve Jobs' products that we can't see beyond the fact that they are overpriced etc - and I refuse to own an iPad until they actually work like a REAL computer not a "look at me I'm a w***er" device (I think they're beautifully designed, but I still can't take them seriously) - I used PCs for years and grew increasingly annoyed with their performance, constant worries about viruses, annoying software updates, zillions of third party bits of software that all worked in slightly different ways, a lack of consistency with said software (especially Adobe stuff) - and then I started using Cubase... which was really the last straw. I know they work - I still own a PC as it happens and don't plan on selling it - but what really hacked me off was I couldn't reinstall Windows XP as the machine had updated itself 'too much' to allow the 'old' version of the OS to be installed - even though it was on the same OS disc I bought it with...!!! Likewise I tried installing Windows/Parallels desktop on my Mac and that just drove me insane as well... believe me I have tried with PCs and given them the benefit of the doubt way too many times...

Macs work for me - I get the things I want to do done on them - and I don't waste precious time and effort getting the f***ing software to run... they rarely crash and never get viruses - that's good enough for me to pay the extra cash.

Sorry rant over now

M

[TomKent]

[quote name='urb' post='1154913' date='Mar 9 2011, 08:44 AM']Macs work for me - I get the things I want to do done on them - and I don't waste precious time and effort getting the f***ing software to run... they rarely crash and never get viruses - that's good enough for me to pay the extra cash.[/quote]

This is the whole reason I own one. I've got an iPhone but I'm not getting an iPad because.. I don't want a big-overpriced iPhone.

[cheddatom]

I have no problem recording 20 tracks simultaneously on my crap old PC with M-Audio PCI cards. I'm not sure if that's much help though!

[quote name='urb' post='1154913' date='Mar 9 2011, 08:44 AM']...what really hacked me off was I couldn't reinstall Windows XP as the machine had updated itself 'too much' to allow the 'old' version of the OS to be installed - even though it was on the same OS disc I bought it with...!!![/quote]

Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense. If you want to reinstall windows, you can do so with any disk. If you're trying to "repair" it might be a different story, but, just format it!

I'll not get into the standard PC V Mac debate as I agree with TNIT* - the hardware might as well be the same, so to buy a mac, the OS has to be worth a lot to you. Fair enough if you prefer the Mac OS, there are good and bad points about each.

*good to see you back!

[urb]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1155143' date='Mar 9 2011, 12:12 PM']I have no problem recording 20 tracks simultaneously on my crap old PC with M-Audio PCI cards. I'm not sure if that's much help though!



Sorry, that makes absolutely no sense. If you want to reinstall windows, you can do so with any disk. If you're trying to "repair" it might be a different story, but, just format it!

I'll not get into the standard PC V Mac debate as I agree with TNIT* - the hardware might as well be the same, so to buy a mac, the OS has to be worth a lot to you. Fair enough if you prefer the Mac OS, there are good and bad points about each.

*good to see you back![/quote]

I agree with you man - I'm just saying what works for me - here's the ultimate compromise though [url="http://www.hackintosh.com/"]http://www.hackintosh.com/[/url] - a friend was running a 16 track desk with his laptop attached to it, using logic on a PC laptop with a Mac OS on it - and it was working fine...

So the moral of the story is do what works for you too...

M

[Skol303]

[quote name='cheddatom' post='1155143' date='Mar 9 2011, 12:12 PM']I have no problem recording 20 tracks simultaneously on my crap old PC with M-Audio PCI cards. I'm not sure if that's much help though![/quote]

^ You know what? There's a lot to be said for doing things with minimal equipment!

I cut my musical teeth, so to speak, using only shareware/freeware software on a knackered old Macintosh (which eventually packed up and took all of my hard work with it... but that's another story!).

Fact is, you learn so much more that way than people who just jump in and spend a ton of cash on the latest kit from the outset. Working with limited tools, or on a limited budget, makes you much more creative in my opinion. And then when you finally get your hands on some better quality equipment, you really know how to get the best out of it!

Same goes for all aspects of music. There'll always be those who produce brilliant stuff using the bare minimum, and vice-versa: those who have "all the gear and no idea"! ;-)

Edited March 9, 2011 by Skol303

[thisnameistaken]

[quote name='urb' post='1154913' date='Mar 9 2011, 08:44 AM']But all us Mac users aren't so enamoured with Steve Jobs' products that we can't see beyond the fact that they are overpriced etc - and I refuse to own an iPad until they actually work like a REAL computer not a "look at me I'm a w***er" device [/quote]

Actually I think the iPad is the best-value device they sell, in terms of hardware costs, and the whole appeal of it is that it's not exactly like a computer. I can imagine an iPad - given the right software - would be very useful as a control surface in a portable studio or as a controller for live effects. Way cheaper than a digital desk or other dedicated hardware controls, and more flexible. So long as the multitouch screen actually works well it could be a very useful bit of kit for musicians.

[urb]

[quote name='thisnameistaken' post='1155272' date='Mar 9 2011, 01:24 PM']Actually I think the iPad is the best-value device they sell, in terms of hardware costs, and the whole appeal of it is that it's not exactly like a computer. I can imagine an iPad - given the right software - would be very useful as a control surface in a portable studio or as a controller for live effects. Way cheaper than a digital desk or other dedicated hardware controls, and more flexible. So long as the multitouch screen actually works well it could be a very useful bit of kit for musicians.[/quote]

Again I agree and it's already happening - see below - I love the iPad's design and functionality (w*** word I know), right now though I think they are way too expensive and for all that they CAN do there's a ton of stuff they can't do and as with the iPhone, later versions will obviously do a lot more and will hopefully be better value for money than they are right now - they are highly desirable but I'm not convinced we all really need one.. to like remain on top of all the billions of bits of digital content we can now consume



I need to look into the whole using the iphone as a midi controller thing as I know that can be done as well - but if money was no object I'd probably own an iPad - though I'm not sure I'd sit on the tube reading the 'paper' on it

[thisnameistaken]

Oh I agree that to most people it is nothing more than a w***y accessory for fanboys, but I imagine there are niche uses for it where it would be more convenient than a traditional computer. But yeah most people will use it as a coffee table decoration.

[xgsjx]

I wanted an iPad, but the Mrs wanted a laptop so she could run powerpoint stuff from it (2 months & she's never opened powerpoint yet).
You do see a lot of f4nnies with them tho, so much so that it's been renamed the "Fan iPad".

Back to the OP. I think the simplest (& maybe even the cheapest from what you was saying) way you're gonna get what you're after, is to go down the Mac route as they come with firewire (apart from the Air).
I have Reaper on both Mac & PC & they're just about identical. I like the Mac because it's a lot less prone to crashing or getting a virus.

If you're keeping on the PC route then I'd look to be upgrading from Vista to either XP or W7 (I know XP is older than Vista, but it's a lot less buggy. Vista is like the ME of the '00s).

You don't have to use firewire to connect. USB will usually do a decent enough job.

[crez5150]

It'll be interesting to see if any manufacturers take advantage of the new Thunderbolt port on the new Macbooks..... Claim it's 10Gbps..... which is quite an advancement over Firewire 800 and USB 2.0