Learning Covers

[phil.mcglassup]

When our band members decide upon a new song to cover - how long should it take for us to reach a stage where we can do it competently enough to include it in our set?

Assuming it is a straightforward song, nothing too complicated with no long winded guitar solos, key changes etc -what do you think?

I'm getting the impression from my fellow band members that they do little practising done at home meaning that an average song is taking six weeks or so to get right and added to the fact that we need to learn an awful lot more songs, I think it's going to take ages to get there!! In my last covers band we practised hard and had a good long set within a fairly short period. Perhaps it's because I am familiar with learning at this rate and the others are not!!

Am I expecting too much? It's just that I practise at home a lot and then get fed up with group practise sessions by being surrounded by others who haven't bothered to learn their parts then I get frustrated at having to go over and over a new song which I know inside out whereas the others are still making fundamental errors. I'm not a particularly brilliant bassist but I do put in a lot of effort!!

Any pointers anyone?

[trev1]

[quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1006158' date='Oct 30 2010, 11:23 AM']When our band members decide upon a new song to cover - how long should it take for us to reach a stage where we can do it competently enough to include it in our set?

Assuming it is a straightforward song, nothing too complicated with no long winded guitar solos, key changes etc -what do you think?

I'm getting the impression from my fellow band members that they do little practising done at home meaning that an average song is taking six weeks or so to get right and added to the fact that we need to learn an awful lot more songs, I think it's going to take ages to get there!! In my last covers band we practised hard and had a good long set within a fairly short period. Perhaps it's because I am familiar with learning at this rate and the others are not!!

Am I expecting too much? It's just that I practise at home a lot and then get fed up with group practise sessions by being surrounded by others who haven't bothered to learn their parts then I get frustrated at having to go over and over a new song which I know inside out whereas the others are still making fundamental errors. I'm not a particularly brilliant bassist but I do put in a lot of effort!!

Any pointers anyone?
Hi Phil,
haveing played a lot of covers in bands our rule was if you haven't got the basic chord progression or back bone of the song in 20 min's go onto something else especially if you all know the track. speaking from experience if the other members don't do their home work for their individual part is the dedication there ?[/quote]

[Doddy]

With the bands I play with,we'll usually get an email from the bandleader of any new tunes to learn,and then we'll play them on the next gig-normally within the same week.

[skej21]

[quote name='Doddy' post='1006182' date='Oct 30 2010, 11:52 AM']With the bands I play with,we'll usually get an email from the bandleader of any new tunes to learn,and then we'll play them on the next gig-normally within the same week.[/quote]

+ 1

I couldn't imagine spending 6 weeks learning a new song, especially a cover. I think I'd end up hating it before I even got to gig it!

[chris_b]

6 weeks to learn one cover song?!?! I get an mp3 or YouTube link and we play it on the next gig which will be in 1 - 4 days.

[AndyTravis]

I've just learned 25 songs for a gig tonight, I took 4 or 5 hours, to get the bones of them all, write down parts.

Walked into a rehearsal on Tuesday, played through the set, and then the same again on Thursday to fatten them out a bit, and gigging them tonight.

[tauzero]

With both the covers bands I'm in, it tends to be suggestion a few days before rehearsal, run through it, if we've got it then good, if we haven't then we know which bits we all need to get straightened out. Neither band is doing a lot of gigging though, so there isn't any great time pressure - I think it would be better if there was a bit more pressure, it might act as a bit of a stimulus.

The ceilidh band is a bit different - at a rehearsal the melodeon player will say "there's another one we could do, it goes like this", plays it to us, we play along, then it's in the next gig.

[chris_b]

You're wasting everyone's time and money if you're learning numbers in the rehearsal studio. You should be learning them at home and then "topping and tailing" them at the studio.

[phil.mcglassup]

Blimey!! You lot learn fast - and I thought I was doing quite well at my speed!!

The thing is, my fellow band members have never been in gigging bands before and so have never appreciated the need to learn new songs quickly.

Thanks for all the replies - I feel like maybe a 'pep-talk' is in order at the next group practice!!

[chris_b]

[quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1006251' date='Oct 30 2010, 01:15 PM']....my fellow band members have never been in gigging bands before and so have never appreciated the need to learn new songs quickly....[/quote]
Nothing focuses you like an unmoveable deadline!!

[the_skezz]

Old band: From between four weeks to never to get it to gigging standard. The guitarist, chooser of all songs, would pick complicated stuff like to cover and it'd take a while for us all to get out parts nailed. Didn't help that no-one could ever seem to remember how the songs progressed (admittedly, I'd only listen to them once or twice, learn how to play them, then stay away from them till the next band practice - some of the choices were **** awful).

Current band: Usually have the songs to gigging standard by the next practise, maybe two if one of us has been having trouble with it.

[The_D]

Usually decide on a tune to learn at a practice and polish it off at the next practice. If I am singing it seems to be maybe 2 -3 practices but not because it isnt right, mainly because I still dont have the singing confidence yet and I push it back til I am really positive about it.

[bassicinstinct]

[quote name='chris_b' post='1006250' date='Oct 30 2010, 01:15 PM']You're wasting everyone's time and money if you're learning numbers in the rehearsal studio. You should be learning them at home and then "topping and tailing" them at the studio.[/quote]

Absolutely!!!

You don't (or at least you certainly SHOULDN'T) [i][b]learn [/b][/i]songs in rehearsal!

Total madness IMHO!!

[paul h]

I think there is a world of difference between a regular, tight gigging band learning a new song and a new band finding their feet. If I am in a band that is out there playing and with some experienced members then I would pretty much agree with what has been said. Learn at home, polish at rehearsal, play at next gig.

However my new band has various degrees of experience and as of yet we haven't played a gig together. Therefore we are taking slightly longer to get the songs to a good standard.

It's not really about the songs but more about the band gelling together. Once you get to a point where you can play off each other and start spotting those little cues that are so necessary things will be easier and quicker.

Try picking one song and just work on it over and over again during a rehearsal. It might get a bit monotonous but it should get you to nail at least one song a week and get you playing together better.

EDIT: As a side note, we have free rehearsal space so it's more forgiveable for us to learn things together. Besides, it worked a treat for Let's Groove Tonight last time!

Edited October 30, 2010 by paul h

[phil.mcglassup]

All pointers taken on board.

I think some members of my band only practice at rehearsals which is annoying and does question their dedication!

Another thing is that when doing a cover I like to keep as near to the original bassline as possible so that the song sounds as near as possible whereas my colleagues are happy to copy their parts from tab websites which to my mind ignore certain rhythm and lead guitar parts which make a song sound better, which just leads to a set of cover songs which sound bland at best. I heard a live band years ago do a similar sounding set and it was mind-numbingly dull and certainly not what I would want to aim for. My fellow bandmates think that by adding their own artistic style to a cover song (my interpretation is that they can't be bothered to learn the song properly) they are actually going to improve it!! Sadly they fail miserably as even the lead solos are nothing like the originals. Maybe I'm too fussy.

So from now on we will be learning two new songs properly per week at home and fine tuning / polishing them at rehearsals - I think that sounds reasonable.

[Pete Academy]

Six weeks for one song is ridiculous. Your band mates are lazy piss-takers. Ditch them and get with people who are committed

[duke of prunes]

when i was doing covers, we'd add 4-6 new/different tunes for each gig, and we'd gig every 4-6 weeks.

the first week we'd come in knowing how the tunes went, the next week we'd solidify the arrangements, then we'd play them just to get comfortable. then play 'em out.

[Tegs]

Treating a practice in a paid rehearsal room as your only practice is ridiculous.................. and bloody annoying for those of us who put the time in at home to get up to speed.

Despite going to lots of effort to make sure the guitarist has mp3's of all the numbers, it's SOOOO obvious when someone turns up unrehearsed

On the other hand, just started jamming with another band and the guitarist is so on the ball is unbelievable. The difference between can, and can't be arsed I guess.

[leschirons]

Maybe you can get away with one member using artistic licence but if you're the only one sticking to the guts of the song, you end up with another 4 people playing it wrongly. Result? it either sounds unbelievably good, or absolute sh*te. Judging by your complaints about the band, it appears to be the latter.

If they are not prepared to put in the same effort as you, you need to tell them straight and if nothing improves, find another band.

Rehearsal before last in the party band, we decided to do Mama Mia and Waterloo. Everyone learn't their parts and next rehearsal they were gig ready in 30 minutes. To learn songs at rehearsal is a waste of time and money.

Edited October 30, 2010 by leschirons

[4-string-thing]

This is a bit of a sore point for me too.

I learn songs at home between rehearsals (we only rehearse for 2 hours a week together) but I'm not sure anybody else does. Its taken us ages to get an hours worth of material together.

One of the guitarists spends sunday afternoons learning stuff with another guitarist friend but quite often they'll learn stuff that we (our band) don't even play! Quite annoying as he could be using that time to learn songs we need to get sorted. He's also very hung up on learning things note for note, which I feel shows no creativity or originality.

The other guitarist doesn't seem to practice at home much, he expects the first guitarist to learn both parts, then show him how to play one of them.

The singer has to have lyric sheets on stage (not very professional, is it?) even though he's been singing these songs for at least 2 years.

The drummer, on the other hand is excellent and seems to have his parts sorted pretty much instantly.

One last moan about rehearsals, we rent a room for 2 hours a week. The guitarist and singer almost always turn up about 10 minutes late, take 20 minutes to set up/gossip etc. Then after 45 minutes go outside for a 10 minute smoke which means we actually play for between 70 and 90 minutes a week.

The more I think about it, the worse it sounds, so rant over!

[dan670844]

[quote name='phil.mcglassup' post='1006158' date='Oct 30 2010, 11:23 AM']When our band members decide upon a new song to cover - how long should it take for us to reach a stage where we can do it competently enough to include it in our set?

Assuming it is a straightforward song, nothing too complicated with no long winded guitar solos, key changes etc -what do you think?

I'm getting the impression from my fellow band members that they do little practising done at home meaning that an average song is taking six weeks or so to get right and added to the fact that we need to learn an awful lot more songs, I think it's going to take ages to get there!! In my last covers band we practised hard and had a good long set within a fairly short period. Perhaps it's because I am familiar with learning at this rate and the others are not!!

Am I expecting too much? It's just that I practise at home a lot and then get fed up with group practise sessions by being surrounded by others who haven't bothered to learn their parts then I get frustrated at having to go over and over a new song which I know inside out whereas the others are still making fundamental errors. I'm not a particularly brilliant bassist but I do put in a lot of effort!!

Any pointers anyone?[/quote]


i guess they aren't putting the effort in, if you know your changes and the way most popular music works you should get it down in a jiff. He he I guess Musicians are like oil you keep on rising to the surface until you reach your limit, sounds as if you need to get in a band with people who can match your ability and effort...............

[lowhand_mike]

[quote name='4-string-thing' post='1006758' date='Oct 30 2010, 10:07 PM']This is a bit of a sore point for me too.

I learn songs at home between rehearsals (we only rehearse for 2 hours a week together) but I'm not sure anybody else does. Its taken us ages to get an hours worth of material together.

One of the guitarists spends sunday afternoons learning stuff with another guitarist friend but quite often they'll learn stuff that we (our band) don't even play! Quite annoying as he could be using that time to learn songs we need to get sorted. He's also very hung up on learning things note for note, which I feel shows no creativity or originality.

The other guitarist doesn't seem to practice at home much, he expects the first guitarist to learn both parts, then show him how to play one of them.

The singer has to have lyric sheets on stage (not very professional, is it?) even though he's been singing these songs for at least 2 years.

The drummer, on the other hand is excellent and seems to have his parts sorted pretty much instantly.

One last moan about rehearsals, we rent a room for 2 hours a week. The guitarist and singer almost always turn up about 10 minutes late, take 20 minutes to set up/gossip etc. Then after 45 minutes go outside for a 10 minute smoke which means we actually play for between 70 and 90 minutes a week.

The more I think about it, the worse it sounds, so rant over![/quote]

er i didnt know you where in my band
yeah i have the same thing, the guitarist learns it both parts, i learn and the drummer is good enough to pick it up as we go (he has said he'll try and find more time to get some practice in but hes just started back after 8 years so we'll let him off) the signer is the same lyrics in a book on stage and hes been singing most of em for years.

anyway off topic there, i think its should be 2 weeks max per song but that means in reality you could learn 3-4 songs in 2 weeks if you commited to them properly.

[4-string-thing]

[quote name='lowhand_mike' post='1006768' date='Oct 30 2010, 10:21 PM']er i didnt know you where in my band
yeah i have the same thing, the guitarist learns it both parts, i learn and the drummer is good enough to pick it up as we go (he has said he'll try and find more time to get some practice in but hes just started back after 8 years so we'll let him off) the signer is the same lyrics in a book on stage and hes been singing most of em for years.

anyway off topic there, i think its should be 2 weeks max per song but that means in reality you could learn 3-4 songs in 2 weeks if you commited to them properly.[/quote]

Er yes, sorry to the O.P for hijacking his thread!

[phil.mcglassup]

No probs about the thread hijack -all feedback is appreciated.

It looks like I'm not on my own regarding my predicament. We also have a situation where the smokers in the group go outside for extended breaks!! Our singer has to carry a folder full of lyrics even when gigging due to lack of trying to remember them.

What I really, really hate (apart from over loud drummers and guitarists) is when we're going over and over a song and there is nothing but guitarists hitting bum chords and notes right in my ear 'oles - it is nothing short of amateur. Plus when I am trying to sing backing vocals it is really annoying. Anyway, rant just about over!!

At least I know what we/they should be doing so I can now lay down some ground rules and work ethics and aim for a full set by Christmas!

[EssentialTension]

The only time it ought to take longer than only a little time is when you're not doing a literal 'cover' version but totally rearranging the song. Even then, it shouldn't be anything like six weeks.