JTUK

Depends on the end user. They can be a great resource or a complete waste of time, but with regards to the latter, I'd say the end user was also wasting their time. Of course, there are poor teachers as well..but that is like anything...do some research to see if the guy suits you

Can't say I do songs I don't like... I wouldn't do many gigs with that band if the set was any sort of struggle too often. The song either works in the band context or it doesn't and that detemines whether you play them.

[quote name='lowhand_mike' timestamp='1441221356' post='2857106'] isnt that the general case for any song we play? i try and put my all into every track we play (except teeenage kicks) and hope that comes across to the audience [/quote] For me... no. If the track is working, I'll add to it..if it isn't I'll bin it. I think the trick is to know when you are beaten. Too many bands persist in doing tracks they really shouldn't A man's got to know his limits

If you play the part with funk and attitude..ie well, the song will work. If you don't..you water down the track and it wont work. Having said that...it is like 'get lucky'..such a great track if done well...such a pile of cack if done to be popular but with no empathy, feel or funk.

Nope, a crap gig is a crap gig and you are likely to get fed up and burnt out doing something for the worng reasons. If money is most important to you..you are going to have to take gigs you shouldn't, IMO. To me, it is about the quality of the work...and I actually think the money will follow that anyway. You have to have a sell... and some bands connect and are viable without doing too much. Ska bands round here will get you work as will the btter tribute bands. Other bands are just out and out quality and even your not very discerning rocker will get it if it is good enough. I actually don't have too much faith in certain genre fave punters.... but almost to a man, they can get something that is genuinely very good/special. First off..you should please yourself and back yourself to know better than your audience. If you do..you'll be succesful..if you don't, you wont

Got 24hrs notice of a potentially nice lttle gig and as the LL is more of a friend I thought I'd push the boat out. Rounded up some great players who posted the set list and I hardly knew any of them... let alone played them before. Thanks to spotify I made some quick notes and I expect the other two did the same. Not quite the same as Gtr can and did drop out a lot..and drums don't have notes that clash... so I stuck to the keyboard player like glue. He sang and lead us thru every song...with all sorts of twists along the way. It ended up quite a magical gig in a fly-by-the-seats-of your-pants sort of way...and they are often the best ones anyway. We blagged the whole set.... and the only standard was 'key to the highway' as a losener at the start. It turned out to be a great sleazy greasey punk funk blues jam and the pub LOVED it. Trying to work out how to do it again without killing it. Got potentially 4 gigs out of it on the day... but I think there is more value to restricting it to special events only...so we'll probably try and do a return to the pub and then offer it up at parties.or cool intimate festival stages. So..yes...in around about way...new project to focus on.

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1441135884' post='2856397'] But part of being a "professional" band is sticking to your time slot and tailoring your set appropriately. However IMO multi-band gigs that over-run are as much the fault of the organisers (and their lack of organisation) as they are the bands. [/quote] Well, one of the bands giving their time had a ex pro drummer get TWO punctures. The organisers could have said 'stuff you' and the guy had driven an hr to not get to play.. Which is a point of view..not one I'd have gone with myself when you are calling or asking for favours, but one of the other organisers thinks the rosta doesn't matter as plenty will do it for free....

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1441129107' post='2856313'] So I've spoken with the guy in the band who this gig request has come through and it didn't go particularly well. I've basically said I'm not travelling all that distance for an early afternoon slot playing to two blokes and their dog with no expenses covered. I'm reasonably happy not to profit out of it if it's a decent evening slot, but I'm not going to do it at a loss (barring the leave issue). He said he couldn't go back and negotiate without knowing the band was definitely available. The term conditionally available was lost on him. I feel bad for the rest of the band as they are truly lovely people and it turns out that not all of them knew about the gig anyway. Essentially I've put the ball in his court and made it clear that if he pulls the plug its on him, not me. [/quote] This is why you should have invented 'I'm busy that date' excuse. The guys stance is totally unreasonable, IMO... and he wants to 'force' his stance on everyone else and it appears not everyone is consulted either. If you had have been 'busy'... you aren't the bad guy. If the guy can't see your point and/or he doesn't want to, this is more hassle when a little white lie might have worked. Shame you have to result to tactics like this...but I get the imporession the guy doesn't get what No actually means. He wants to do it... and he'll engineer it if he can. Stick to you guns... a days leave at your day rate is the fee the band should get. It isn't your investment. IMO.

I think you can forget...in that some things you lose the ability to do. In terms of what I think is off...a few days affects me. Also, you can be upto gig speed or you aren't so afetr a 2 year break you'll need to work pretty hard to get it back, IMO.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1441128503' post='2856301'] We just played festival in Bedfordshire. We needed to use our dep keys player, he charges £150. That's the deal, nothing to do with him what we get paid. As it turned out we got paid £250 but the organisers at the end so it was easy to pay him, otherwise, it was our choice to do the gig, knowing we'd need to stump up £150 from band funds. [/quote] correct call, IMO.

[quote name='lojo' timestamp='1441126189' post='2856276'] Gigging for free or next to nothing does have a effect of things, but its a free market and people have the right to do it as a hobby. Many services and industries are effected by things, years ago you had to go to a printer/designer to get letter heads and logos done, my mate did mine when PCs became popular. Cheap labour or off duty firemen doing decorating for less than someone needs to charge to earn a wage etc. The invention of home accountancy packages, the list goes on. Bottom line is no one has the right to ask for their industry to be untouched by things like this (except bankers and farmers perhaps) [b]I also believe if a musician is operating at a level where they are effected by someone playing the dog and duck for next to nothing, then they are not really making a career out of it anyway.[/b] [/quote] Hmmm chart topping sideman of a good few years ago doesn't get those calls so much anymore, and so the £300 per week they can pick up on the pub circuit might go a long way covering their weekly money. The LL's aren't that well versed in the premium that such acts might actually be worth, so goes for a cheaper option. The cheaper option is next to free..... so guess who loses a gig? If this happens a lot then that is a lot of money being lost. I'm firmly in the music should not be free camp... and at a charity gig yesterday, one of the main organisers was moaning his band that was on last had lost quite a bit of time and they had to start later... this was because the bill overrun. He said that there were plenty of bands out there desperate to do the gig so he didn't see why the bill needed people that couldn't play to their time slot... But they were the bands that made his event a success.. The one thing that a decent LL learns...is that the premium for the better bands is worth it. They are the places to work for.. IMO. As far as I';m concerned, the rest can close down...

Wouldn't bother with the tone...just that you need a pretty spikey attack to it that is going to carry the song. Personally I think it is a slap part or nothing, but if you have the bass and drums slamming then it will work. The part needs attitude above all else....that and the Vox are the songs... the bass will get them on the floor and the vox do the rest. If the bass isn't doing it... then dress the arrangement up so you can get to the vox asap..

I have to say that not normally that keen on class D but if this is in the same sort of league as the Demeter, then they might be onto something. But...heard a glorious 400 today..old boy, but great sound. I even helped him out with the cab as would have been rude not to.

Paid. The gig is their obligation, not yours. If it is not signed up you need to decide whether to charge them or be unavailable. If you want to keep the job for later gigs you may have to weight one against the other. To avoid all this say you are unavailable on that date..work etc. Anyone who isn't stupid will get the picture, and you avoid it being 'uncomfortable' but also, as said above... who would expect this. FWIW, to support a charity bash, I paid the band. It isn't up to me to decide what they work for, so i paid them as i wanted them to do it.

Got a prety decent tool kit in the car..so that works for bands, just need to add soldering iron a one or two specialist tools and that ius about as much as you can plan for...

20 yrs ago a local Brewery might support music with a £250 'fund' ... how much they do that now, I'm less sure, altho I know Shepherd Neame around here are very active with music pubs. However, most of our pub gigs are Free houses and the LL's say they could afford ANY local band if every night was such and such at a takings level. They aren't, so he averages out his fees yearly..which is about £250-ish. In this case one or two bands could justify asking for more but I doubt he'll go for it..but he will give a bonus if he can. But... as i say, there will be a few bands that don't make money and you have to decide if you want to 'subsidise' them.. By and large, you decide if you like the gig or not.

If you want the kit to bleed into the mic then the SM58 allows this. Sometimes this isn't a bad thing... but for lead vox, I don't like the standard 58 so much. No decent singer I know uses one, tbh.

[quote name='Iain' timestamp='1440852093' post='2854339'] I wouldn't - had one, useless when pushed even moderately. Thermal cut-out even in rehearsal. No issues pushing my markbass BigBang way harder and longer. Couldn't get good tone out of the PF-500 either which wasn't the speakers (PF115 & PF210) as I've tried them with my MB head and they sound great... [/quote] I agree that none of them work really well when pushed but that is the price you pay...and the reason why I ran an 800w class D... but others find them acceptable in terms of volume and power so it can be on their list.

For £1200, pay £400-450 for the amp and the rest on cabs. That would allow you to get most 212 and 2x112 second hand, Cans that should be on your list, IMO are Berg 112's or the CN212. Ag SL112, altho you'll struggle to get 2 for that money. I think £800 will get you SH Bergs but the 2x112 option is more expensive than a 212.

If he is plqaying with them, the band can't be mugs so take a bow that they let you play or sit in.

I'd go for a PF500 or TH500 with 2 TKS S112's cabs. This will do the vintage vibe very well as the cabs work very well with both. I'd also consider the PF cabs but only on price, nothng else, over the TKS cabs. I've tested against Berg CN and Ag SL112 and the TKS cabs shaded it and works with quite a few styles from hard driving pick, to vibey slap tones. I am bit perturbed about the Ampeg rig not cutting it in a large room tho..??? that points to more fundemental problems

You do need to keep track of these sort of things but a barrel of beer round here to the tired poub could £115-120 per barrell..so that is £400 gross on the bareel @ £3.50...... so they are making around £1.50 -2.00 per pint. Add into that add Brwery subs, and you can see £250 is a kind of stock figure for them. They have all exes to come out of that figure, of course, plus it also needs to sub the bad band night. So..it isn't reasonable to charge silly money because you made that for them..and not take a hit if you didn't. The LL needs to balance this out across the year...so if you play there 3-4 a year you can't be paid what you are worth unless you are prepared to give some money back at some point.. Typically... This is why, IMO, piub gigs need to be GOOD gigs rather than just gigs. Too much work for the money, otherwise....but you could say that about weddings etc etc

[quote name='tauzero' timestamp='1440786723' post='2853923'] The disadvantage, of course, is that you have to play ska. [/quote] PASS...!!! 50 yr old guys in 'arringtons and pork pie hats that can't dance to anything else... you have got to be kidding. And where are the women..???

[center]2 bass players in a contempory band..??? NOPE..!![/center]

Yes..maybe the 'importance' of a gig might need a built in price to cater for those sort of events..?? When we've wanted deps... on a saturdy night we've found £150 plus travel was the typical 'ask' The gigs would certainly have that in them but our mates rates started at £600.....for this very reason so we could still afford to be 'stung' by a dep for £150 and not be too badly off. But they other thing is...'whose mates'...they may be the singers, but they might not be mine..then the Mate rate introducer might take the biggest hit. The other thing we found was..what does £150 get you from a player point of view...?? If I had to give 'honest' feedback,. I'd say none of the deps we used were unqualified successes'.. degrees of acceptable, for sure, and we used them more than once, but you felt you got thru the gig rather than really delivered