JTUK

I always re-adjust a set-up anyway. You set iot up to suit you...and no one knows that better than you do. All you have to do is learn what to adjust. For me, it is string spacing, string height and choke..and be familiar with truss-rod work. Depending on the neck..I find I might have to review this thru the seasons like spring and autumn. My basses might choke if I play in a very laid back position...i,e not sitiing/standing upright.

Buy an RS112 for small... and keep the RS212 for big...unless you can't carry the RS212, then sell that and get 2 RS112 and you keep the sound but have a more modular set-up.

I wont treat it as a job until it pays me the same salary. But I treat it as seriously as anyone.... which is why I insist it must be right. It must be of the right quality and we must do the right shows/gigs. Generally my name is decent and people know if I am involved and committed... which I'll tell them that I am or not... then that is enough for them to make their decision. I'm kind of pleased that if I want to 'sell' something.. plenty of people will listen. But to do this...IMO, you need to sift through some gigs and not bother with them. I'd rather they came to a gig that cost £10 a ticket..where we could do things properly and spend correctly to improve the show.. than a pub date. But the right pub date is also important... the music is capable of being the same level, it is just that we treat it as a loss leader. But there needs to be a balance... I don't think you 'waste' your product on too many pub dates as those same 'punters' will ask what the difference is between that and a ticketed event. This is why parties are better...because the money is treble/quadrupled and you aren't responsible for getting the audience. The next trick is getting the party money up to wedding money without the wedding faff... So, because it isn't my main job, I'm VERY picky about the quality of the gig..in every respect and I have no worries about whether we are worth the money. I do my homework.

Get an Eden WT series amp.... that will put big beans into a decent cab, imo.

[quote name='Nicko' timestamp='1442418152' post='2866839'] 'fraid not JT, 4 matches in total on Saturday. 1200, 1430, 1645 and 2000. Really I reckon it should be a 10pm start. I think the LL is planning our start time around his closing time TBH. [/quote] 2200 is ok ...or would be by me, but if this is waaay different other bookings then it isn't the same gig.... especially if you have to get there early so as not disrupt the rugby.. i.e set up by 2000..?? Turned down this friday as it is the England game...but in reality the gtr and drums are in the middle of a tour so it wasn't working anyway. Your guy needs to come up with some EXTRA money

[quote name='sPiKi' timestamp='1442355330' post='2866384'] It was the OB1 not the OBT, JTUK. I tried it through my Ampeg 610 Classic cabinet. Initially I thought I might have tried a PF500 or 800 but after doing some research, the frequency of problems with the 500, no matter how long ago, has put me off. I was also considering the SVT 7 Pro but even with the current revision of that amp (H? perhaps) there are still reported problems with cutting out. Not ideal when performing. Think I'm going to wait and see what the feedback on the Mesa is when it arrives. The only other strong contender is the TH500. Not sure about which cab(s) to consider. Still trying to get my head around the large output from the small cabs that seem so popular today (is 115 or 112 or 212 really loud enough for gigging?). Again would really like to downsize and go modular, but have very limited opportunities to try stuff out locally and haven't an unlimited budget, probably £7-800 for cabs. [/quote] I think you'll have to do what you need to do ampwise... but I can say that a 2x12 is pokey. I've used 212 as well and that handles a nice sized stage quite well. I'm think 32ft x 16ft. typically. I think a 610 would handle it better, for sure, and I'd have to do that size stage with a 750 amp with 212+210...so yes a 2x112 is a very useable set-up. IMO, the amp is key. My DB750 is great at that...as it is its home turf, IMO. I know a Thunderfunk 550-B does it as well.. Not sure about the TH500... I for one, wouldn't risk and if the TH class D would work, I'm be unsure abouit the other amps of that ilk as well. This was one of the reasons I went for a Demeter 800 but haven't tested it there yet. Also..that is why a TH800 might be a great idea as well.

Looks quite funky...

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442402839' post='2866644'] But you and Blue are looking at this from different points of view. You're running a band and he is 'just' a hired hand. From my point of view having been in both situations it's nice to just turn up and play what you're told to play. Put your trust in the band leader. I'm very flexible, I've played in everything from Thrash metal bands, through party bands and am dram pit work. To me a song is a song, most of them are 3minutes long and don't take hours to learn. Really it's all about being entertaining and playing live for me. From a band leader point of view, I'd want people like me. That can learn quickly, don't moan that it's a boring song that's been done to death, or that they're not getting as much this week as last week etc. I kind of agree that a band doesn't really work as a free democracy but really has to be run as a benevolent dictatorship, or as a strict democracy with an elected leader who has the final say on everything. [/quote] I'd have those thoughts if a hired hand as well... but true, I wouldn't be just a hired hand, I'd want input. Deps are different, And in the example I quoted, all I did was take the date... I made a call to a mate who suggested so and so. Because so and so came with a set and that would max the money between 4 rather than 5... we then just decided who the drummer should be. Because these guys know the score...it was a about as easy as it could be..the playing was a bit of a roasting, in its way... but there was a lot of chat and direction thru the songs. All in all, the gig was a stormer..!! So..it was my gig but we had two other MD's on it... Since it was my gig, I named the band. For me...I have to like it and rate it..otherwise it is a job and I'll take it or leave it. For good or bad... I find my sh** level is high, so it needs to really register with me or I can't be interested much. Sometimes a new gig with new people is enough.. but then once might be enough as well. I think I need to keep it like this otherwise I'll burn out again... and I don't want to do that..

I'd cancel...but it depends how much of an issue you are going to make with that action... If it is a rugby club/pub..they should have known and planned in advance. Depends what the game is...I'd compromise and say you'll start after the first game finished which should be around 21:40..???

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442359305' post='2866410'] Good story Pete and your lucky. Sounds like you found a rare and good opportunity. Again, very cool. Most start ups aren't together long enough to see their 1st gig. Blue [/quote] But that is because of the people chosen .. and you learn who the dreamers are etc etc ... We all started somewhere but as you've been doing it a good few years, you know who to stear clear of. Track record can be quite key here... Of course, not the whole story, but you get to know who can do a good job for you and who can't.. If I need to check someone out...I'll prorbaly go and see them as this tells me everything-pretty much- musically- and then I ask my muso 'mates' to and see what they say. Then we might go to a musical meeting/rehearsal and see what chemistry we have.. Once that works... we see what every wants to do work-load/commitment wise and then AN business. But, once the chemistry has been sorted, you'll find the enthusiasm picks up quite a lot. The other way to do it is pick a standard set..ring everyone up and do the gig on friday... The problem with that is the standard sets can get very 'tiresome'... I've just recently done the latter and lucked out when the set included stuff by Bobby Bland and Fred Wesley..and it went down a storm as it was so damn funky..and FUN. And as for standards, I think I know a few... but when I was going thru the set list, I hadn't played 90% of them and never heard of over 50%..???... but the band leader was so good it was a cake walk. Can't wait to do it again tbh. Killer Delta funk IMO.

[quote name='Billy Apple' timestamp='1442331304' post='2866100'] £2K for a decent acoustic is probably quite reasonable. If it's handmade there'll be an awful lot of time and skill gone into it. [/quote] I'd say the same about a bass, tbh... In fact I think £2k would be the cheaper end, depending on spec and wood... but it would probably largely be hand made.

[quote name='cybertect' timestamp='1442336151' post='2866175'] Curious how the 'cable nazis' deal with a half hour slot on a bill with a load of other bands and you have about two minutes at each end of the slot to set up and break down while another band is doing the reverse on stage at the same time... Do you still take precious minutes out of your performance time to get your cables just so, or do you simply not play these kinds of gigs? [/quote] Don't do them...but on the rare occasion we'd share...the amps are sorted and the band briing a lead... but sure it the stage manager lets it go, it all goes silly.

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1442263986' post='2865673'] I'd like to point out that a bass cab isn't a PA. So while you can use DSP in a PA system for quite a few different things - lots of them really useful - on a bass cab all you can do is alter the frequency response a bit and perhaps add some judicious limiting. If a cab needs this kind of tweaking, it should probably have had more money spent on the drivers in the first place. So the comparison with PAs is misleading IMO. [/quote] With you there, Stevie. I think internal mapping on a fuller range signal can be useful and it is also a bit idiot proof so you don't blow that woofer or horns...etc That can apply to bass as well, but in general this pre-detemined tone map is something I tend to avoid now in amps. As it is Berg, I'd be interested in giving it a go in a shop if I was browsing, but otherwise I'm covered for quality amps, IMO. Nothing on these pages really pricks my interest.

[quote name='sPiKi' timestamp='1441925215' post='2863106'] So, I received my OB1 500 today and have just returned from a quick workout with our guitarist and drummer. What a disappointment! Hated the tone. Mids way too prominent and to my ears, just all 'honk' which I couldn't eliminate. In spite of the marketing of an active EQ, we found the range from the clean section of the amp to be pretty limited. I played through with my P and J basses, with no effects at all. It does the distorted thing great when the gain is cranked but I could never see me using that in our set. Enjoyed a quick run through Ace of Spades for old time's sake The unit itself feels very sturdy and weighty and it isn't going to budge from your cab; thought the knobs though were a bit cheap feeling. For comparison, we alternated heads to contrast with the V4 and I must say, in my opnion, that has a much more rounded, fuller tone which is not harsh unlike this one. I still have the problem of not enough power with my V4, so considering possibly PF800 + cabs, TH500 or wait for reviews on the Mesa Subway. Any thoughts or advice would be really welcome. [/quote] Refresh the memory..what cab are you planning to use...? The OTB is regarded as a 1 trick pony, IMV...and it depends if you like that trick. Some do...but it didn't work for you? Aguilar can do a modern take on Ampeg, but if you are considering the PF800...I'd stick on the Ampeg trail. I don't like the SVT3 but that might be another option. Very popular around here, for some reason.... and S/H prices should be helpful. If you were going to change out your cabs, I'd suggest a PF800 with TKS 2xS112's as that combo works great with a PF500. Best of both worlds...light AND ceramic I'd also suggest that CN Bergs and SL12's...which are NEO and light, work pretty well too. But I say this as they are combos I've researched and know work...IMO. The trick is trying these things to avoid another OBT situation.

[quote name='Phil Starr' timestamp='1442305861' post='2865828'] I wonder what you all do about the mess of leads on stage? They look awful and constitute a trip hazard for band and audience. The problem for most bands is that every venue is different and usually far from ideal. Leads that are too short in one venue are too long in the next etc etc. On top of this one band member or another will always turn up late and pull out a 50 metre mic lead they wrap around every item on stage, before dumping the excess 35m in front of the monitors or at the foot of the mixing desk. Sorry, serious question, I shouldn't rant. What do you do? I'm considering making up a wiring loom of some sort or perhaps just a couple of short multicores with a stage box each, one for front line and one for backline. Anyone tried this? Any other suggestions for tidying the mess? [/quote] The worst EVER, IME was the Greeks... but that is another story. I hate to see an untidy stage..it just looks so poor to start with.. so a fortune is spent on gaffa. The general rule is to have the cable runs round the back and round the front of the 'stage'..so the band is ringed by cable... none of this mass of gunk going thru the middle..as it is harder to gaffa down and is an accident waiting to happen. Also, your runs should be isolated where ever poss from the audience as they'll trip it as well. Best case scenario, they pull a cable, worst case, they cause an accident and in comes PLI and grief..!!.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442281334' post='2865746'] Well, I think there is a maturity curve to consider. Older guys like me ( the 60 plus crowd ) I would think, don't have many of the same issues and concerns we had in bands 40 years ago. At this point you would hope we all know all of the basics of [i]"How To Be In A Band". [/i]I think many of us have seen or had to work with guys that unfortunately are good enough musicians , but don't know how to be in a band. [b]I no longer car about musical input. I don't care about what songs we play, musical direction of the band or what I like or dislike playing or what other people in the band are doing in terms of the strengths of their individual performances. None of those things have anything to do with my role and place in my band. Month's where we don't have much booked, that's something I'm concerned about.[/b] Blue [/quote] I definitely care about all those things... massively. The only point I don't care about..because I don't need to, is gigs. I will do gigs but I'm not wasting my time or the other guys time on gigs of a certain nature or even stature. It is either a good gig or it is not. Funnily enough the other guys, who should be more picky about the work they do...because of the work they can get and indeed do get....aren't or can't be as picky. Basically, I wont waste their time for gigs that don't pay minimum £80 per head. I suspect they may go cheaper from time to time..and have to, but I'll generally not call these guys for that money. That is a basic 4 pub for a 4 piece..it gets much harder introducing a 5th member. Parties, which is what the band excels at, are easy

Generally..arty people aren't always good business people and it takes a lot more than just being able to play. A local college which churns out musicians and they end op on the local scene offers the business angle well enough but I think it is really hard to get a lot of people to have the playing down AND business. One side tends to dominate the other. Other times, it is a lot deeper than this..and the guy just hasn't got his s*** together at all. And nothing will save you if you are a complete ar$e to work with.. IMO.

I agree that simple is best. It starts with your bass anyway...and too much second guessing of that just complicates things. for me, my onboard pre amp adds a smidgeon but in reality this can be quite powerful tone shaping tool in itself. I don't want to double up at a later stage..which is why once the tone is set at home.. which is the same as for a gig, it then is just about levels. Too much corrective EQ seems like a recipe to screw everything out of sight You'll then have ti get into the realms of photgraphing your front panel..and everything else, to remember where you were. Not what you want to be doing if set-up time/sound check is limited for any reason.

I didn't mind the thread... I would have explored some other options myself which I why I suggested he go to BG and BD. I didn't get the resistance to ideas like that but there you go... that is not the way he wanted to go. As for Boutique and mainstream... don't get that either. It is either good kit or not...

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1442233702' post='2865317'] On My Demeter I tend to have the mids at about 10 o clock and the treble at 9. And in 'dark' mode. But then again my basses are quite bright and have steel rounds on most of them. [/quote] I'll check mine...but I started with them all quite pronounced except the bass which was on about 10...and I've backed them all off now.. I like this. It is subtle but works. First time out with the D and I got lots of nice comments which was nice..altho I think fine tweaking is still in order. Basically the amp is classy so things can only get 'better', IMO.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1442232755' post='2865301'] +1 I've not come accross Disco Inferno in any bands though, maybe missed out there. Rest are all very standard around here. [/quote] :lol it's probably a generational thing... I used to hate/struggle with the bassline 30 plus years ago. Ran thru it a couple of years back and it was all good. Song is a busker even after all these years If people gave me a set like that nowadays, I wouldn't really embrace it with enthusiasm unless the money was very good or the band was very good..hopefully both.. I have to say some people's sets are thrown together with little or no thought and there is a distinct lack of imagination in some. I tend to look at the vocalist suggesting sets now...and go from there, I don't want to do standard Disco...unless it is great Nile Rogers stuff... but Delta funk is Coooooolll!! IMO

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442230886' post='2865278'] Led Zep did what they did for one reason. . . . album sales. Back in the day, when you recorded an album you always ran it through a 2" x 3" speaker to check the mix for the sound on a transistor or car radio, but you never recorded or mixed just for one of those speakers. I've recorded a few times for the BBC in the 70's and while they might have put their trainee sound engineers on the pop stuff they didn't purposely downgrade their recordings. The last recording I did at Maida Vale, about 5 years ago was on the full desk with all the bells and whistles. Rick Danko and Earth, Wind and Fire were two of the worst for re recording the bass when filming their bands on a gig. [/quote] Further to this, I believe Marcus M will tell the story that the reason that he developed his slap style and sound was because he wanted the bass to be heard on crappy systems, ie radio and cars. As for EWF..and it might seem sacrilege to say... but when was Verdine's 'bass' played by Verdine live? I don't know who the bass player was... but either the bass line is re-done or there was a guy backstage playing the lines. I don't know when this 'change' came about but I'd suspect it may have been the case for 25 years plus..

I think fans know his voice has gone..which is why he had the crooner angle going..but one last chance to see him is probably why a lot went. My sister went... and I can bet she will say she'd rather go and see a good tribute these days... but she wanted to see HIM this time.!! They'll probably be saying the same thing about Brian Adams in 10 or so years..

And the problem is...will that gig suffer an 'idiot' failure..?? It it will...then not a real problem...if it wont, you probably wouldn't get asked again.. etc etc

Depends where the pain is... I'd second a comfort strap but I'd also check out the reason for the pain... I developed a problem over time and it was a technique thing... The problem with muscles can be resolved quite quickly but structural and ligaments are a longer problem. Physio..!!