JTUK

Until we see the set list, can't really advise on a song to pick. The reason why I'm against something like Dakota..- I know it isn't an option, but the thinking applies to other songs- is that it is carried by the bass...and that is exposure/pressure that you may not need. I'd say the same about Valerie, but it depends how you feel about it. You can't move or lose the groove on that..the song will fall apart..so want to avoid that sort of scenario..IMO. 3 chords and repetitive is a good start..but there might be better ideas/choice when the set list is up.

Personally, I think it will be hard for that money. I would go for a QSC K10 bundle but there is no desk in that for that budget. And also, for the budget I'd not put all the keys thru there and they NEEd their own backline..if only for monitoring. The P.A can then help out but be mainly for Vox. If I had to save money ..I'd look at RCF ART actives. 10's for Vox only..12's for a a little re-enforcement. But tops only is mostly for Good vox, IMO. If you want the band to go threu it..and even if this means gtr or keys, you need very good tops and the budget goes up. If £1000 is your max... then Vox only, IMO...to maintain a good vox sound. Other options might be EX actives, or Yamaha... Personally, I think the better the horn/hi end, the better all round so maybe look at Horns with a bigger than 1" C driver. S/H but heavier... but good quality, IMO. RCF 722's ...the 2 denoting a 2" Comp driver. These are pretty manly but not lightweight.

Fingers or plectrum..?? Dakota with a plectrum is very doable..with fingers, for you, ..?? no. The song is made or broken on rigid 8th notes...and too many finger style players struggle on a relatively simple but fundemetal ask... Unless you are 250% certain, I'd avoid... Not trying to bust your confidence... just being practical. IMO.

I don't get it either ...and certainly if you are packing a bit of timber yourself..

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442958403' post='2871011'] I just don't get the only playing for 2 hours. That's just about when I'm getting warmed up. I think I'll make the point that many of the bars we play are more like real music venues. Were playing a bar called Kim"s Lakeside. Really small place. People come there specifically to hear live bands. Are bands more of an after thought or like background music at pubs? Blue [/quote] No..exactly the opposite, IME. The band IS the draw. Designed to sell beer and alcohol. It is not exactly a show as you have a break between sets but 1x45 and 1x60 including encores is the norm around here. You are booked at a fee to do 2x45mins. There might be variations and late starts at some places but for pub money no one does late nights, IMO.. and you start 21:00-21:30 and look to finish at 23:30-23:45. Pubs may traditionally be in amongst residential so respect is due with regards to neighbours. In- town gigs might be able to go later..but you'll bill them for that as well.

We did it as a 4 piece, Chris.... with Wez. No idea how close we did it to the original. When I got the set I'd never heard..let alone played.. too many of them.

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1442949998' post='2870916'] Sounds great and interesting. Did you record it? coz I would love to hear it. [/quote] I did plan to record it... but just didn't have time to se it up. And of course, becasue the gig was a jam pretty much all following the leader we didn't know how well it would all go. I wish I had and all the guys are up for doing it again so I 'hope' we gig it on the 29th Nov. Just waiting on guys to confirm theri availability and I'll definitely record it then. The set will go something like this yes we can can Allen Tousaint Respect yourself staple Singers Key to the highway Freddie King Cut the Cake AWB Chicken heads Oscar Brown Hey pokey a away The Meters Bloodshot eyes Wynonie Harris when will be mine AWB I don't need no doctor John Mayer live Same Old Blues Freddie King Pack it up Gonzalez Mary Ann Buddy Guy Let me love you Baby SRV Nothing fom nothing Billy Preston I wouldn't treat a dog Bobby Bland Familiy Affair Sly Stone single version Love and Happyness Al Green Bop to the Boogie Fred Wesley Papa/Low Rider And any thing else the singer throws at us... it is all comping on a groove laid down by paino... there is very little format but sometimes you'll have turn round chords and off you go again. But.... there gigs can fly very high or fall very flat, so you have to be very careful. Fortunately...and you really need this, IMO.. the guys have great ears and busking chops but the audience doesn't really have to understand that... it just has to come across and work. We had such a good reaction to it... I think I'll be able to ram the pub again...but even so... it will be fraught and seat of your pants stuff, for sure.

[quote name='Jazzneck' timestamp='1442948255' post='2870900'] Two / three questions; You did it as a Monster Jam the other day - did you keep the bass line as simple as this or was it tarted up in any way? Do you mean "cutting teeth tracks" in the sense that they are thought to be easy? [/quote] Cutting teeth as in standard track that you spend ages and ages learning in your bedroom. I'm old enough to have to have done this with a record player and we just played it over and over almost wearing the record out. As a school kid, I learnt all my early catalog like this...endless repeats of a record. The 'monster jam' really referred to the singer/MD starting it on the piano to create the vibe and the band just all fell in so no one knew how it would go until the '1' as it were. My role was just was just to riff it and keep the groove.. and IIRC it morphed into 'Low Rider' when the Band Leader cut down the band and just segued into Low Rider after teaching me the riff... I already knew it in my head but for Theatre...as that is the way the gig was going, he played the riff... told the audience he was going to teach me it..and then let the song go.. I did do a little solo...as did the rest of the band. It lasted about 15mins and we ran massively over time... but a great gig was had by all.

Girl Singer.. Nutbush..?? a bit thrashy but that will help you.

Not Dakota as most bands butcher it.. and you need to play very very good 8th's all through it, pretty much. Assume you do the bass..?? Pick something repetitive like Sweat home Alabama as if the band get it...with a groove... then the hook will have them sinigng and you'll ride that wave all the way thru the song. Valerir is good but again you need to be rock solid as there is NO failing off the bass groove. Maybe a rock'n'roll swinger in an easy key.. Route 66/Chicago..?

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442945642' post='2870873'] I believe Bob Babbitt is the bassist on "Papa Was a Rollin' Stone". Apparently James Jamerson was on the session and walked out when they told him to play the same riff over and over. Bob Babbitt took over. [/quote] But the track is perfect for a Delta funk band ... We did this just the other day... Monster jam and went down a storm..but you need a good band leader/MD. Cutting teeth tracks...

$12000 or £8000 is pub level money as it is £160 per week. A decent 4 piece would do that in pubs twice a week... BUT...you'd have to be at it EVERY week which is where it becomes hard work. But the top line figure means nothing unless you compare cost of living. Over here, decent tour standard guys probably struggle to get much more than £20k consistantly. I generally know who is earning what by the cars they drive so certainly not too close to £30k And as an aside, a one hit wonder 60's band..with NO Original members and therefore no royalties, did a gig with us 2 years ago and they ALL had very nice new ( within 2 yrs old ) SUV/4x4;s ...and I bet they did it on the Butlins/cabaret circuit. I guess that is why some guys give up...but only give up fulltime playing, not playing completely..

I thought U.S bar bands and pub bands were the same gig in the U.S...? Over here... people who want fun do pubs and parties, people who want money do functions and weddings..typically Of course, they can be both, fun and lucrative..and that is what I aim for.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1442932794' post='2870678'] The best band to a bar owner over here is the band that's playing when not only is the bar packed but the punters are buying alcohol at a premium rate all night. Blue [/quote] Agree..and even tho I don't always agree with that criteria... I do get the importance of it, of course.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442926639' post='2870589'] Which is why it can be hard to get your foot in the door. [/quote] I'm kind of all for that, tbh... If you can't 'force' your way in... you possible have to look at yourselves and ask why..? I don't really believe any LL would turn down the best bands..and you can measure that in 2 ways. You are the best musically and/or you are the best from a draw POV. But if they did, I'd be thinking that isn't the sort of LL/venue you should be playing anyway... assuming you fit the criteria. In reality, there are only about 4-5 'best bands' anyway... so the LL can't hang out for best-best..

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1442921529' post='2870495'] I was talking to our band leader last night about how he gets the pub gigs. He says you have to call them around 20times before they'll put you in the diary. Generally not because they don't want you to play, but because when he calls it's not convenient. It's no suprise that pubs go under, good landlords with a business head are very hard to find. In a number of the pubs we play, we never meet the landlord. The ones we do, we get a date for our next gig at the end of the night. This is why it appears that the circuit is closed to new bands. I can see how this would get tiring. Being told by punters and bar staff that you're one of the best bands they've seen and then not being able to convert that into more gigs is frustrating. [/quote] I go to a pub I think would be suitable... it has either been recommended to me..so I research it, or I've been there/played it. I'll establish contact..maybe by FB..and let them see a few reviews and then let them come back to me. The proactive ones...will have their ears to the ground anyway..and will know something about you. Either they know the reputation of the ppl in the band or they know the band. So..we've done our homework and they've done theirs. I would 'hope' that we have a decent enough reputation to open up a few doors but I'm not above giving it the big spiel IF I think we can live up to it. Tbh, I prefer to undersell and walk away with plaudits than go in all guns blazing. To people I know... I like to think they trust my judgement. If I tell them this is a band they must see, they believe me.. but by the same token, I'll also say, this is NOT the band for you. But..I have to be honest...that wouldn't be my band. Overall, I think it works. The trick is to get ppl to ask you to do gigs... rather than have to hussle them, IMO.

[quote name='ahpook' timestamp='1442861382' post='2870109'] Well, that depends on the gig ! [/quote] Me too.... Sell it to me and I might be interested but a gig for a gigs sake.. Nope..!!

[quote name='Ghost_Bass' timestamp='1442842497' post='2869906'] Lacking better english vocabulary i used "muddy" but the main difference is that with SS amps/ceramic cabs on a pub i need to set the low-end back to prevent issues with on-stage sound and drum mics, with class-d/neo i can leave it flat, the low-end is more than enough and not overwelming (spelled right?). Less fuss while setting up and harder to have sound issues. It works for me! Also, it's way easier to carry [/quote] Understand. And I'd do the same. Small stage/pub and poor load-in means light rig, Class D and lightweight ceramic cabs. Big stage and good load in gets the full beans rig.

[quote name='Conan' timestamp='1442838864' post='2869852'] I suspect that is a big part of the appeal. We are used to hearing (and seeing) Fenders. Just watch any of the BBC's reruns of music from the sixties onwards, and virtually every bassist will be using a P or a J (usually in 3TSB, but's that's another story!) [/quote] But there also wasn't any alternatives either. Maybe 4001 but a lot of that was a jazz in the studio..?? and as for SG's..?? The Alembic made a few waves in the early 70's I think and so did Wal but people like Sadowsky had realised that all you needed to do for the NY session market was to make them (Fenders) better. IRC, Aguilar and Demeter did the same thing at the same time with pre amps. The Americans loved 'rodding' an original idea out of sight... hence their car culture for hot rods and Harley's.. and they accuse the Japs of being copyists..

Agencies in pubs around here don't generally work.. Good bands don't need them for pub work as that work will find them plus the 10/15% or whatever it is, should go to the band. The only places that uses agencies is LL's that don't know what they are doing and the end up paying £350 inc the agent fee and don't make any money on the night...so the gig never lasts anyway. If a new LL/Venue wants to put on music..and they mostly all consider it, then they are going to have to do some research just like any other business idea. If you are talking about an agent that gets you into London hotels or introduces you to a very good events manager, then they'll likely be worth paying... but they need to up your fee by A LOT. For example, if you get £1000 regularly, then an agent is going to have to almost double your price...as they'll want £250-300 and you'll want £1500 plus to mess around in London, IME.

[quote name='chris_b' timestamp='1442830367' post='2869712'] Also under the old licensing system you didn't need a music license for Karaoke and you did for 3 or more musicians. [/quote] I always thought that was a good thing as it made the pub/venue commit to the idea of gigs in the longer term. They needed to sort their electrics for a start. Making more venues able to have gigs...hasn't really helped IMO. good bands will always get gigs but I see any old pub with 4 guys in the corner does not help keep rates up... as it is obvious there are 'alternatives' By the same token that bands needs a history, so do venues. Of course, new gigs/bands come along, but they both need to be researched thoroughly IMO.

BTW... I use Fender's 'clones'... but they are very good 'clones' so the core sound is there and some...!! I don't like to use the word steroids as that is not something..if I understand the defintion...that I think is useful in general and particuarly to me, I've had the same luthier make me a custom and modern bass but I don't find it versatile enough these days. for some reason..and I do sympathise that most fuddly duddy bookers/band leaders can't be offended by a Fender or one that they think is a Fender. It is what it is... but the issue that will crop up is one where it goes against their preconceptions...be that, style of playing. SOUND or visual. An old blueser doesn't want to see or hear a Smith..as much as we might want to tell them they might.. I'm looking round for a new Jazz...and I'll start at a Am Deluxe J5 if I can find the spec and it plays/sounds well enough. There will be no change out of £1k... for good or bad, and double that if I have one commissioned... It needs to sit along side my other basses and it is going to have to be very good to be able to do that. I don't actually HAVE to have one tho...as 2 giggers should be enough.

[quote name='Dad3353' timestamp='1442773731' post='2869377'] We've not seen the same bands. [/quote] I'm sure..... but if I had to think of notable good bass sounds from bands I've seen recently, off the top of my head I'd know who they were as I take notice of such things if I'm listening....but to make it easier, I'll just recall the worst, and they would be an SG. 3 Musicmans and 2 Ibanezes. There might be a couple of P-Basses in there that don't sound that good, but they don't stand out as poor.. Of course, this is at the hands of the player, but this is the spread I can recall. And another 'observation'... when I would ask them about their choice of bass, or they'd tell me, as these are musical aquaintances, they'll say they use the bass because their fave bass player uses one...and then they complain about their sound in general too. Not a lot of joined up thinking there at all..IMO.

But............. so many people have opinions on what a bass should sound like and they include Gtrs and sound engrs. They will have experience of what doesn't cut it and what does...and altho you can tweak anything, nobody is going to do that for the bass The gtr wants 4 days of solos, and the Singer wants vox overdubs so the bass has to go down quickly. Of course, a Fender is pefectly capable of sounding poor, but people wont blame that on a Fender. but they might on an Ibanez... I'm trying to think of local bands were the bass really doesn't work... and altho there are degrees of all this... the ones that struggle, ..tend to be humbucker types basses. And because a Fender sound is so basic, it is harder to screw up... As an observartion of bass sounds that I've heard that worked for the band of late..?? 4001, P and Jazzes.. Notable misses are Ibanez and MM... and these aren't isolated to just a single sample. Wild card was a Warwick..everyone loved that one. Anything in that..?? who knows but it has gotten to the point that if you see a MM lined up, you begin to worry.