JTUK

Just a story... but I'll post it anyway as we are talking Markbass. Now, for me, not what I'm looking for Muso freind had a Ashdown mini rig 210/115 and an Ibanez. It really REALLy didn't work and I was thinking he didn't know what he was looking for.... ( borne out by the fact that he favours a back pickup style, but doesn't really have it down)... Basically it didn't carry the band and thereofer the band sound was 'weak',,,, traded it in for a MB 102 and and ext 210 and it has transformed his sound and the band. Maybe he just lucked out with the set-up and even tho he still favours an unworkable, IMO, back pickup style, the sound is much fuller. So..Markbass can do older school sounds...and I always liked the 102 ...never went for the 121 tho..which is odd. But I'm talking borrowing here. So this story... plus the fact that another mate gets a great sound out of his MB 2x210 shows the 210 set-up is pretty capable.

I wouldn't got changing the sound... but I'd change the point of attack, possibly. I'd expect the band/players to bring their 'thing' and I'd have that in mind when choosing people... but as far as deps goes... it depends again, on the money. For £50, my 'mates' would basically be saying, just come along and do what you do.... but they'd expect you to have ears on. Hell, they don't know how the song is really going to go so it is varying degrees of flying by the seat of your pants...which should suit a jazzer, depending on their discipline. For more formal functions, you'll going to have to know a lot of stuff and be able busk, or you'll need stage notes or dots. But function money is £150 min, IMO.

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1444937420' post='2887561'] So I was in the market for a bass distortion... tried out the range. Marcus set them up and Mark looked over proceedings. Great range to try.. EBS and Darkglass notably. I think Mark is a prickly fish if you go in with a load of old school Fender mojo baloney. He's definitely from the new world of bass which is what are you wanting to do... here's the tools to do it... [b]And there's no better choice in the UK for high end except perhaps the Gallery - close call.[/b] All that said, he's never gonna shift that gold sparkle Mayones bass unless Prince comes in the store... [/quote] I'd be pretty sure you could add BassGear to that..

[quote name='cremonabass' timestamp='1444938078' post='2887568'] Thanks Jtuk, wasn't it you who wrote in a thread that the TKS sits in between the Aggie Sl112 and the Berg CN112? Those cabs I know, the Aggie was a bit too bassy and the CN112 too middy for my taste (a bit oversimplified...)so the TKS would be more to my liking. Until now I always prefer ceramic speakers in 12inch cabs and I heard most of them...but I don't want to start another debate about neo vs ceramic! [/quote] I actually put the TKS in the lead from those 3 but I also said I'd be happy to use any of them. I had AE112's at the time. In the demo the S112 was the only ceramic one and has a more pleasing voicing to my ears. I was quite taken with the CN112 tho.... but I wanted something a bit more organic for a light rig so the TKS was the one..( I brought 2 ) The amps we used were a PF500 and a TH500 and the S112 suited them very well.... but I've changed amps and run a Demeter into them... and I feel that a NEO would be too much for my liking. For me, the Demeter is a better match with the Ceramics TKS's IMO

The tone of the s112 is great...lends itself to hard pick break up, and also a more funk element. I wouldn't say its is completely at home 'flat' but it has quite a smooth..not bassey, sound. Some 12"s cabs I've used are definitely compromises in between percieved 15" and 10" ground and that is a lot of ground to cover. I don't think anyone will have any complaints about the TKSs112 tone..but I'd have a tweeter in it if just the one. Maybe' it is emperors news clothes but my mates rave over this new rig... where I run TKS 112's with a Demeter. It is pretty clean and can be spikey if you want it to be. Never the bassiest of cabs..and who'd want that anyway... but full and deep but with attack.... never boxey...IMO. Build quality is almost Berg like...and that is probably just style thing than anything else. 10kgs for a ceramic cab... I'd say that stands a very good chance of getting close to an HD. All my cabs are ceramic speakers...and s112 sit well with my DB cabs as well..

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1444919128' post='2887352'] Cheers. It will be a novelty actually using the EQ on my MB F1 head. Normally its just set flat or close to that. I do find the EQ on my VTBass DI to have a lot more impact but the lows are so powerful id be worried about turning that knob up with the BB2. This will be the first 8ohm cab ive had for a very long time. I might look at getting a new amp, something more powerful, just to give me a bit more clean headroom from the amp. Going from a very loud 4ohm 1212L to to the BF at 8 ohms might involve me having to turn up a bit more on the head. Normally its run at around 11 on the master.[b] I have run had it at just past 1 o'clock a few times and its wasnt a pleasant tone[/b]. Ill have to see how the first gig goes though, i might not need it. The Ashdown RM800 looks like a good move if i do go for something louder. [/quote] This sorts the men out from the boys in regards to amps, IMO. It is easy to make cheaper amps but when you ask a lot from them and run them hard, that is the difference, IMO I wont say what amps can't, IME, but that is what made the TF550-B a very viable 550w amp, IMO.

[quote name='Musashimonkey' timestamp='1444917673' post='2887330'] Love my BB2, it's got everything I need. Can be very transparent so have to use EQ to get the right tone, depending on the head, but better to dial things out, you can't add what isn't there! Great cab indeed. [/quote] I'd say it is harder to dial out than in....always has been, IMO. Some amps can't cut.... and if you've ever had a boomy cab on a boomy stage..?? you try getting rid of that...??

I can say the s112 is a very capable cab but I'd think you'd need two for most bands I'd guess the same for the 10 as well. I'm not sure what you can realistically expect from singles, tbh. Sure, they might just about cope with the volume..depending on a lot of things, but that is the least of your concerns.

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444921773' post='2887382'] To be fair, that 50 quid hadn't changed much in the last 30 years prior though. [/quote] Probably not, I am trying to recall some wages back then,,,but pubs have probably increased by £100 in the last 20 yrs..?? It is only now that pubs will pay £350 round here...and you have ASK. Oh..and the term is 70 a skull... not nut..

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1444919487' post='2887356'] Agreed John. As my old band is now dead and a distant memory, i must confess i did cream a bit off the top every now and then, as i was doing most of the bookings. It shouldn't have been like that, i wasn't running the band as such, but two of the band were so bloody lazy i felt 0% guilt. I would often split the money with the drummer who did give me lifts etc. It was all contract stuff, and i would always email the contracts around, but sometimes they would go through Acrobat first ;-) Yes, im a bad person, but with a full time job and a family i often wondered why the two that had neither wouldn't make a phone call every now and then. [/quote] Quite understandable Dave... we had a drummer who said he was useless on the phone so we said just hand the number/contact over then. In 3 years not one gig/contact and I don't recall more than a handful of people he got along. What brings that to a head is when you have to sell 350 tickets and every head is a bonus...and such tough work. That is the sort of thing that makes the unequal thing very apparent. And then that £1200 gig has quite a big slice or differential and it isn't the band you started with anymore..it is a business.. And..he was the one who started the minimum gig fee thing...so that is how we started a kitty...as some of those early gigs wouldn't make his fee x 5... so we put him on a fee ..and over time he never made MORE that we did, altho on some gigs he got paid more..but then on others much less. What ever people demand...and I am fine with them asking.. it all comes out of your yearly earnings and the kitty can't be bare at the end of it.. so they end up slightly less well embursed..

[quote name='dave_bass5' timestamp='1444829507' post='2886458'] Same here. its forced me to listen and learn music i probably wouldn't have bothered or known about if it wasn't for first dance requests etc. The 3 function bands ive been playing with over the years have always just split the money equally. Ive never been in a band with a band leader who calls the shots and pays a wage out, other than if ive been depping. I wouldn't say i enjoy every gig, but then i dont enjoy every day at work either. You take the rough with the smooth if you want to do this sort of thing. Knowing what you are getting in to is half the battle won IME. Its definitely not for everyone, but there are so many threads on here about this that i think any one who spends a bit of time reading them will know exactly whats the norm and whats expected. Then you can make your own mind up. For me its a case of playing (which i enjoy) and making money from it. I dont have the inclination to write any more, so learning a few new songs in a new style or songs i like listening to is satisfying to me, i then get paid to play it to others. Perfect :-) [/quote] That works if you all contribute equally, Dave, but some guys get all the gigs, do all the phone calls, liaise with the booker, website, others own the p.a and bring the lights and the drummer just looks after himself. If everything is equal, then it is equal, but mostly it isn't, so the band leader creams off what he thinks he is owed...dangerous territory, or you all discuss it openly, with is slightly lesser dangerous territory, so eventually, one guy gains control and tells the others what the gig is worth..i,e paying. And since they do the megotiations and collect the moeny....how will you know..? In the world of deps... they will tell you what they work for... i,e £100 min, and you either get them in because they are worth it, or pay lower for lesser..??? Local saying around here...70 a nut... meaning min £70 per gig,.... that seems a min fee that people go out for in a pub, which means pay in 2 years has jumped £20 ... Deps charge more as they know they can... until they want your gig...and if regular, they become more flexible..??

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444910705' post='2887219'] I can't really say I know, as i'm only 28.... I have plenty of contacts too - and know what you mean. EG my day job are looking for a pianist for our christmas party to play background music - I know plenty of keys/piano players but only 2 or 3 who I would consider to have the right style to play background christmas music on their own on piano. [/quote] The local touring player who is out on world tours might sit in at the local with some mates for 2-3 songs but he isn't going to be available to anyone who calls him. He has a reputation to consider and he doesn't want any..or need any, little embarrassments. And it isn't as uncoomon as you think..they are always levels, and some you can't reach but there may be some you wont dip down into...??

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444907383' post='2887157'] A better drive, I'm sure. But I believe Mercs are currently not as reliable as some more affordable brands. So if reliability is important to you, then you may not want to buy one. It's important to me, so I drive a Corolla. Which I suppose is equivalent to a MIJ P Bass... [/quote] Sure, a better drive and a better all round car. You might be unlucky with a fault, but that has to be a one-off piece of bad luck. If Mercs had a sustained issue with reliability they'd have a huge problem. Having said that, if you have to shop around, then buy Jap, but even then one or two will be dogs.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1444915245' post='2887283'] [b]Charge them an hourly rate for the production of the paperwork![/b] Playing a funk line with your thumb or playing a tumbao with a muted tone is not what I would describe as sounding like the original, it would be genre specific alterations. To my mind, altering technique to suit a tune by playing nearer the neck pick up on a swing tune, picking up a fretless for a ballad etc are routine and not gig specific. Rolling off the top end for a reggae feel etc. This doesn't need rehearsing, hours of preparation or even mentioning, it just needs a sense of context. [/quote] Certainly would have to worth a fee...and I can't see why the band wouldn't be pleased to pay it. But then there are lot of jokers around...

So so wrong, IMO

Well, there is also a feel good factor. I'm a believer that the very good luthiers make a bass that is worth the difference and if it is tangible to me...I'll buy it. Others may not.... ?? oh well..!!! Mercs damn well should be better than a Ford... it would be a shock if they weren't.

Fuel and rehearsals are a factor as well... altho you'll be lucky to get a dep along to a rehearsal altho it may well depends how you can split down the fee...pay £200 and some of that can go to paying them to rehearse but for £50..they turn up and introduce themselves on the night. I wouldn't use a dep ...or dep for, a gig that wasn't 'introduced'....but then again, many FB dep groups are full of strangers. It could be fraught and depends how desperate the situation is.

Quite like waht you are trying to do on examples 1 to 3... but agree, I'd replace the reverb with a touch of chorus. As for the slap... that really doesn't work, I'm afraid. Slap is notorious for losing the bottom end at the best of times -which is why it is often underpinned by something else like a synth bassline. The trick is to get a slap sound working with a fingers style sound... you can use FX's but from a technical point of view, it might be better if that wasn't your default method of making it work. IMO. One reason why you want to be able to just go to a slap sound is so you can play both styles in an instant for a fill...which would be too much hassle and grief to switch in the sound all the time. Very limiting in that regard, IMO.

Liking this

[quote name='gapiro' timestamp='1444823108' post='2886348'] To me, playing any music is a learning experience and makes me better and more versatile - there is lots to be learnt from the music you dont enjoy playing/listening to. [/quote] But if you've had 30-40 yrs of that, you might be a little jaded and put down a few restrictions or criteria yourself. That is understandable as well...? Certain people will NOT play with certain people. I've got plenty of numbers/contacts of prominant players and you don't ring them up for certain gigs. You just don't and if you were to be so silly, you'd not be received again. Credibility is everything, IMO.

[quote name='discreet' timestamp='1444813586' post='2886206'] This is the problem I have with covers and why I don't do them. People pay to see a covers band to hear songs they know and love. You are being paid to reproduce those songs. In my view they should be played as closely as possible to the originals, within the parameters of what is possible, i.e. production values, what the engineer had for breakfast, etc. etc. Most covers bands won't do this, and far too often will use the 'it's our interpretation of it' to mean 'we couldn't be bothered/it was too hard to learn it properly'. Well-known hit songs are well-known hit songs for a reason - if you want to do your own thing then write hit songs of your own. And another thing, it's extremely rare to find a bass cover on YouTube that is anywhere near correct! *Awaits backlash from 'song-interpreters' and those who can't be bothered to learn the songs properly* Thhppp! Thpp!! [/quote] My take on it is that too many covers bands will try and go for a very good copy and miss it by some distance. The players are the players on the record..so that is a minefield in itself. I think the best approach is the get the essense right and make it work...and hopefully produce a better rendition than the recorded version you are using for reference. Why would you want to copy Entwhistle or MaCartney lines for example if you don't like their style or playing..or lines. You could argue why even do the song in the first place, but...??? But hey..it is all down to how you pull it off... and you live or die by that as a player or band. IMO.

Most decent function bands that use deps will learn the need for a pad, but you are right.,..who wants to put the time in to produce one. There is two sides to this sort of story... Pay is £100..and that is 4 hrs work. Nobody will have the time or inclination to roast themselves over that..unless there are further gigs down the line or you are eager to impress. Musical circles don't really get day-rate...but lets not head of down that path. We have had some really good deps...but basically they'll only put time in new charts if they think they'll use them again. TBH... for a £50 gig..you get what you get which is an understandable stand-point if not what the 'client' wants to hear. If I booked a horn section and gave them an hrs work.at a gig.. we agree the price for the gig itself... not homework and charts as well. Give and take and understanding of the whole deal required. IMO.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1444797318' post='2886065'] I see your point. Some BCers are under the assumption that all bands have a huge stable or resources for deps or any kind of replacement. Not true. Blue [/quote] If you work on the assumption that anyone any good will be busy and will want to be, then all those job offers..which they have networked and cultivated will clash the diary at quite a few points. You will soon find deps... plus you know people in the playing pool and you know who can step into these occasions and make it work. The number one goal of a working musician is generally to get as many gigs as they can do...and they find themselves many many others who do the same. This will mean you might never know the line-up..unless you ask, and you may be meeting the guy for the first time at set-up. Players talk, suggest names that can do this sort of thing and it doesn't take long for you to be as busy as you want... kind of.!!!

You'll need to run thru it a few times... experience will get you a long way to guess the notes that aren't that apparent or obvious but if you want to train your ear, you are going to have to use it as the default method. It will get easier as you work at these things. Only use tab or notation for the sticky parts if you are trying to get your ears working, IMO. P.S in days gone by, players used to wear the record out playing it over and over....