fingerz

Yeh this is interesting - almost like if you market something as a Jazz bass then a lot of the hard work is done for you.. I've seen, played, owned basses that have a Jazz shape but sound nothing like a Jazz bass, so it's no wonder we're all confused.. For me, it has to have the shape (roughly) and JJ pups (ideally single coil) to even qualify for the title. But if it doesn't sound big and growly then I always feel the manufacturer has totally missed the point in giving it the heralded title, and I feel a bit embarrassed for them! Then you have people like Fbass whose BN5's can sound very Jazz like but don't use the shape or title, repect! But, I think I'm beginning to confuse myself now! There is only one REAL 'Jazz Bass' tho for me - and it has fender slapped across the headstock.

[quote name='lojo' post='938148' date='Aug 27 2010, 03:08 PM']Strange to list a geddy lee if your into slap mainly? Not saying you cant slap a geddy, or geddy couldnt slap[/quote] Those basses are actually quite good for it!

Jazz and Funk = Jazz Bass. Precision if you fancy. I'm sorry to be blunt, and that comment will piss some people of and I really don't intend it too, as there are many great basses about. But that's what I can say to you after playing lots of basses, a lot of times over the years. For the styles you mention. Save yourself the many disappointing purchases I have had. Play a load of Fenders, get one you like the feel and sound of, one that you can't put down. When you get into the band with it, it will all make sense

[quote name='bumnote' post='938115' date='Aug 27 2010, 02:27 PM']To maintain the demand, unless non players start collecting, there neeed to be enough new people learning instruments to make up for old guitars coming back in the market plus any new production.[/quote] I knew a bloke years ago, who couldn't play at all, but collected rare guitars and basses. I expect there are a lot of people like this who actually keep the top end of this market afloat. I think this is totally consistent with any collectors, often more like business men than enthusiasts for the nuts and bolts of their chosen field. It makes more sense this way too. I mean, how many of you go out gigging with your 70's Jazz or Boutique bass and constantly risk damaging it on a stage, or on a flight to some part of the world.... Now, I know these instruments are for playing and working, but a pure collector would have the upper hand in terms of re-sale as his bass is immaculate. Hopefully destined for the hands of someone who will really appreciate it one day!

Fenders will always be more of a collectors bass and appreciate as time goes on - consistent with anything old in good condition, it really is something you can't buy off the shelf. So I can't see how anything can over take them in terms of value. Boutique basses seem to drop a lot from new but then hold their value at a certain point. Something about old timbers too, the way they've resonated say, for at least 20 years, seems to really effect the sound. But many have issues, and are better hung on the wall and being 'valuable'. This is where the Boutique sector will come in, as issues are far less likely. But they will never overtake old Fenders. The only thing I can think is that these old basses can't live forever. So although those that still exist will be more valuable there will be more people in the market for something exclusive that can't find the Fender they want.. This may bring the old boutique stuff up. But I think it will be relative to now. Everyone knows Fender, not everyone knows Sadowsky, Celinder, Alleva, Bossa, Pensa, ESP.. the list goes on... you see?

I've heard that Chris Celinders P basses really nail the concept. But I'm sure you're best off with a Fender Precision with a few years on it. I'd check out a Celinder P if you fancy a boutique take with all the thump and growl P's are about. I think there's one for sale atm actually on here..

[quote name='Clarky' post='928314' date='Aug 18 2010, 08:05 AM']Seems to me that there's a big confusion in this thread between technical ability and musicality. I would have thought an awful bassist is someone who has no empathy/fit/vibe with the band he/she plays in. Adam Clayton may be a 16th/root note chugger but what he does fits U2, likewise Level 42 would not be the same without Mark King. Joy Division would have been a much lesser band without Hooky. If someone's playing fits the music, then I fail to see how they can be described as "awful". Thats just snobbery. As it happens, I find a lot of bassists with huge technical ability (eg Hadrien Feraud) unlistenable - doesn't make them awful though, even if thats how the music sounds to me.[/quote] Exactly. I think things like this happen because 'empathy/fit/vibe' are not easy elements to measure. It is clear to see why speed/technical ability are often directly linked to prolificness. Think about James Jamerson, Nate Watts, Pino. Amazing players. The technical guys are amazing too, but great musicality involves more than technique. I think that often everyone wants to be influenced by the likes of Jamerson because it's cool to be, but don't really appreciate all the things players like that encompass when they listen to or play music around them.

[quote name='Chris2112' post='926668' date='Aug 16 2010, 04:58 PM']Mark King is the boy, I couldn't and wouldn't argue otherwise. I'm the first to defend virtuoso players, the reason why Tal pops up here is because she is [i]not[/i] a virtuoso and yet inexplicably gets gigs that are top level. I expect to see a incredible bassists alongside Chick Corea, for instance - imagine going to see Chick and expecting Garrison, Wooten, Feraud etc etc and getting Tal plodding along instead. Her playing is IMO far below par for the people she plays with and it is to the detriment of the music as a whole! It'd be like going to see the John Mclaughlin trio in the late 80's and finding Adam Clayton standing in for Kai Eckhardt![/quote] OMG. Or Mark King playing for Chick?!! Horses for courses. Like I said earlier, we should remember that bandleaders pick these people. If you find it disappointing, it's your opinion of the choice of line up rather than the individual. They got called. Think maybe of a contrast from the Garrisons etc as being what the bandleader is feeling for their music. There's more to music than fireworks of technique. I agree with an above point that it's a good job Tal isn't a member here! Blimey!

Reading music/being able to read music helps your general understanding of music when you play it. Knowing how things fit in time and space and having a reference for that,, which is universal. I know people who can't read who are great musicians, but it sometimes takes a bit longer to explain how something goes before a set if we haven't rehearsed it. It can only help, like I say, it gives it all a context which can help to understand how things go. Re TAB. My opinion when I teach reading is to avoid it. Why? because I've never done a gig (pro or not) and had tab put in front of me. if you're gunna put some time into reading, then I like to teach the route that you can get the most mileage out of. TAB is hard to get the timing out of too. But for many who just wanna put something onto the fingerboard it's a useful tool.

By what measure? She's (Tal) got her sh*t down... I suspect knows more about harmony than Rhonda. I'm not comparing, but just making a point that these people do THEIR OWN THING, and that takes balls as we all know. The people that hire them are giving them their 'rating', and those people (Prince, Corea, Beck) are world class at what they do. You could perhaps argue (if you wanted to!) about the choice of the bandleaders musicians, but not about the band members themselves. These people could pick anyone, maybe they hear something you don't?

Tal is sick, Rhonda is sick! totally Sick. Groove, feel... But you may still not like either of them... Doesn't make the 'rubbish' by any stretch. A good player is someone you like, a bad player is someone you don't - but some one else will ! It's not for anyone to say. Now go play yo' basses ! jeeez

Don't judge

These basses are wierd. I just can't imagine going to a gig and pulling this out of the bag!! Very clever tho..

[quote name='270degrees' post='924202' date='Aug 13 2010, 05:58 PM']It's probably been posted before but... [url="http://www.brianeastwoodguitars.co.uk/coll.html"]http://www.brianeastwoodguitars.co.uk/coll.html[/url] I love it!![/quote] that's a good one!

If the band is professional musos then it needs to pay well to keep them on board, and so as they can survive the normally quiet January, If not, then who cares! If you can all justify it (each members personal evaluation), then go for it and have a good knees up!

I've not played a Wal. I know a pro who has had one for all of his working life and loves it, he has other basses but that one hasn't gone anywhere. They always sound great when i have heard them. The point is, if you want one, get one. The price is obviously high but as mentioned in this thread, there is loads of stuff that is really expensive for what it is out there. Sadowsky tokyo basses come in around 2 grand for 5 stringers - god only knows what it costs to manufacture those basses. Wals are hand built, and have their own vibe that is unique - that is very rare these days. If you love a bass, you have to have it, and that's the only value you need to worry about. I worked with a drummer who was telling me about a bass player he works with who plays a Wal. Everyone asks him to bring the Wal when they gig with him. He said it was heavy, but sounded so fat that it just blows everyone away. I've never heard a story like that from another musician, people normally only pay attention to the player. That bass has had a big influence on all who've been around it.

Have camera back... So the bass deserves some good porn shots before I leave this thread alone and go and play it ! Enjoy ..

I'm still here! My camera isn't but here's a couple of pics I took with my phone. The bass is ridiculous! Tone and feel is like a vintage bass, but it's a 5 string! Obviously it has modern tones too, but that rewarding thing is there. yes very happy and worth every penny. 2 more gigs this weekend, but for the first time set up how I like it. Since I set it up for my style it's gone from nice to stunning.. I keep looking in the case to check I have one!! How sad is that! Molan, that blue one looks very nice! Why are you selling it?!! Steve, my Jap jazz is going nowhere! Ever! But I'll let you have another go on it for a fraction of your offer... Thanks for the tip off on this 5. I'll bring it round soon..

I'm now a Celinder owner! Have a 5 string J update. As someone who found a Fender Jazz bass and fell in love with that 'thing', I've been after a 5 that floats the boat for ages... This thing has amazed me. All the growl I could want, not too clean, and the mass of maple in the neck makes it so stable. I've owned other high end 5's and the b string often seems to dominate the neck tension (if you know what I mean) and pull the neck about... My celinder goes straight as anything and plays like butter. Like my very well set up jazz bass. I've wanted one for ages, now I have this thing I feel I can forget about the instrument and concentrate on the playing. I didn't want to show off, but my girlfriend is getting sick of my rantings and doesn't understand a word of it!!

Please leave any feedback for anything bought or sold here. Thanks very much!

I managed to prize a Celinder J update from Kims hands. Good, fast communication, and clear experience in shipping was reassuring. As soon as he had the funds he was off to UPS which was a massive help in coping with the suspense of buying such a nice bass! Nice bloke, straight up to deal with. (Also has some nice gear so keep an eye out ; ) Thanks mate. Jo

I know people who use them and are very happy. Mostly working musos don't mind the price cos they write off against tax. I went with Spectraflex cables this time and am very happy. Quiet, good jacks and don't take anything from the sound. The company were very good at getting back to me on a query I had so that always goes a long way too. Being that they are cables, I say buy what makes most sense to you..

Check out this outboard pre amp discussion. Also check Talk bass for experiences of different pre amps.. [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94494&hl="]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=94494&hl=[/url] if its worth mentioning. I've owned a GB (Spitfire) and Fender Jazz. The GB is nothing like the Jazz sound and I believe the way a jazz is made it will never sound like a GB for many reasons even if it is active. This is of course a good thing (IMO), and a good reason for owning two such basses. I just feel if you want GB sound, Jazz bass ain't the way. But an active circuit will give a jazz a more hi tech sound obviously. Hope this thread has some useful things for you anyway... Cheers

Man, these lessons are wicked. Something there for everyone. Good work mate!