Beer of the Bass

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441465339' post='2859089'] Adding '[i]Why do people buy expensive gear?[/i]' to '[i]Is expensive gear better?[/i]' and '[i]Do you ever gig expensive gear down the pub?[/i]' results in bangs and smells. Back to the drawing board. [/quote] Ah, but I get a better sounding bang and a much nicer smell with quality gear!

Vintage vs. hi-fi can be an odd distinction to draw, as a lot of bass sounds considered "hi-fi" have massively hyped EQ applied, whether that's from the amp or an onboard preamp. If you take a typical passive bass with flatwounds and plug it into a clean, flat system (like a high impedance DI box into a desk and studio monitors), the sound isn't much like the stereotypical hi-fi bass sound and wouldn't sound out of place as a 70s studio tone.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441400628' post='2858722'] The Canadians banned that song from public radio for being racist. IIRC. Possibly. Go Canada! [/quote] Hmm, the bongos/chimpanzee bit? I know the BBC had issues over the word "faggot" more recently, both in this and in Fairytale of New York which they probably received more complaints about the censorship of than they ever had about the word itself.

I'm pretty sure that's a basschatter. Here we go again...

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441375143' post='2858432'] In this case, I can imagine no one less 'up himself' than the OP, him being a modest, likeable chap entirely devoid of pretence and artifice. [/quote] I think that's part of why people feel comfortable bringing up their differing points of view. When a poster holds some strong views but doesn't get prickly when questioned (and Blue seems uncannily patient in such situations), it almost invites a bit of devil's-advocate disputing of their points.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1441360246' post='2858207'] I just wanted to point out that my thread title was ironic. There is nothing wrong with the production values of modern pop music. I just wanted to register how hard it is for the little guy to keep up with the technology used in producing it. I guess a parallel would be a local group trying to put on a gig in a pub versus a full-on Iron Maiden stage/lighting set up. [/quote] I wonder how much of it might be "the trouble with audiences"? Some people are happy just to hear the song played well using whatever palette of sounds is available to the performer, while others seem to judge the quality of the performance by how closely it resembles the record. The latter group might have to adjust their expectations a little when attending small venue gigs.

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1441314746' post='2857944'] I'll simplify this and I'm a huge MJ fan. No Beatles, no MJ. Blue [/quote] Oh, absolutely. MJ himself was a massive Beatles fan and in some ways the Jackson 5 format was an attempt to capitalise on that trend towards self-contained bands (rather than frontman plus sidemen) which the Beatles were instrumental in starting. I just find it interesting to think about which artists and events might be considered important when historians look back a century from now. I suspect that within his post-Beatles era, Michael Jackson may be considered to be one of the big things.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441313907' post='2857922'] I've never seen something that sounded musically pleasing and thought "It would be better if he stuck on a set of flat wounds, but never mind", and I doubt many people have. [/quote] I don't know, I can think of a few times I've seen great players and thought things like "Great, but wouldn't it be nice if he lost that awful scratchy piezo sound", "Aargh, why did it have to be a DX7" and things of that nature. Perhaps I'm unusual in that respect.

The price compares very well to getting an EA Wizzy 10 over here, and has the benefit of being 8 ohms so you can expand to a pair of them easily. I wonder how it sounds for double bass?

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1441310331' post='2857876'] It was always recognised as a cult classic that one. You do have a point about me not being constructive but I tried to that in the long running 'experimental' music thread here on Basschat and ran into a barrage of indifference! [/quote] I was maybe less aware of that; for me it was something a friend played to me a few years ago which seemed surprisingly fresh and made me wonder how I hadn't come across it before. That made it feel like a reasonable candidate for this thread. This sort of thing is tricky in the internet era when almost every bit of music published is discussed, analysed and blogged about somewhere or other. I guess most things do find the recognition they deserve, whether that consists of a critical re-appraisal or just a small following of enthusiasts.

[quote name='Spoombung' timestamp='1441301037' post='2857774'] That gets LOTS of recognition and is the subject of much attention every year! [/quote] Only if you read certain bits of the alternative music press, and AFAIK it didn't make much impact at the time. I dunno, is that insufficiently "before it was cool" for this thread? It might be more fun to suggest some albums you think are under-recognised rather than just popping up to tell us the rest of us why our choices are wrong!

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441299278' post='2857753'] Looking purely at the facts, spending £2,000 on a guitar to play 15 £200 gigs throughout the year doesn't make business sense. [/quote] I'm not sure that business sense is the motivator for most peoples music making, and we would be hearing some fairly dismal stuff if it was. If the sound and responsiveness of that £2000 guitar inspires the player to practice and write more and they can afford it, it seems worthwhile. Plenty of people on here have talked about being inspired to kick up their playing to the next level when upgrading to a professional quality instrument. For me that happened when I changed from a thumpy sounding Chinese plywood double bass to a 100 year old carved bass which is louder, clearer and more even sounding, feels better to play and is easier to control under the bow. Perhaps the amount my gigs pay hasn't increased, but my playing experience is much enhanced. What price do we put on that?

I feel like acoustic instruments are a bit of a different case. I'd agree that it's not essential to spend a huge amount just to get out and get playing, and the nuances tend to disappear through an undersaddle piezo and a pub PA system. Having said that, the more expensive instruments which get some individual attention in their manufacture really do have something that the cheaper instruments lack, and this will come through in spades in the studio, in more intimate acoustic settings or mic'd into a high quality PA. Spending tens of thousands on something made from esoteric woods and dripping with pearl is still an indulgence, but I would argue that spending a couple of grand on a handmade instrument is not. I may be biased by having a classical guitar luthier in the family, but I can hear a degree of difference between a £500 acoustic and a £3000 acoustic which I cannot hear between electric guitars or basses at the same price points. I wouldn't laugh at somebody for choosing an instrument within their means, but nor would I dismiss the value of many of the higher end instruments.

[quote name='Annoying Twit' timestamp='1441292473' post='2857657'] I do realise that your joking, but I'll say: The important bit is not who was 'bigger', but who was more innovative and influential. Which was the more important album, Fleetwood Mac's 'Rumours' or the lesser selling 'Sgt Pepper's'? [/quote] That's an interesting point to bring up, as looking at some of the bigger names in contemporary pop, I think I can see a fair chunk of Michael Jackson influence, not just in the music but in the whole way of working. I mean that thing of having big productions by name producers, slick videos, performances as much focussed on dance and spectacle as the song etc. I'm not a huge MJ fan myself (so no epiphanies for me there), but there is probably a case to be made for him having changed the industry in a fairly significant way. Of course, none of this has happened in a vacuum so anything which was important in the path of 20th century pop will have paved the way for it in some way.

For the fairly light duty gigging most of us do, cheaper electric guitars or basses can do just fine, but I think if I were a pro with a heavy touring or recording schedule I'd want to spend a little more - perhaps not crazy boutique stuff, but certainly something at the level of a Fender or Musicman, the more no-frills end of small UK luthiers or even some of the better mid-range Korean instruments. There are all kinds of little things which crop up with heavy use, like the softer fretwire used on many cheaper instruments, or the quality of the electronics and tuners. These things can be upgraded of course, but not everyone likes to spend time tinkering with their gear.

I use Nyman rosin on my bow and the last time I picked up a new tub I was surprised at how much more pleasant it is to play with fresh rosin compared to an older tub of the same brand. I think the old tub was about four years old at that point. With that in mind, does anyone replace theirs periodically, and if so, how long do you leave it?

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1441209959' post='2856978'] Why should you not be able to re-finish your keyboard in orange and blue if you want to? If I was younger (and had more ambition) I think I'd look into this as a business venture. [/quote] Orange and blue? That would preclude you from gigging in about half of Glasgow!

Something I've wondered about active/passive inputs and impedance; I'm well aware of the benefits of a high impedance input for passive instruments, but is there any compromise in performance when plugging an active bass into a high impedance input, gain issues aside?

[quote name='BigRedX' timestamp='1441206579' post='2856934'] Maybe you should have a listen to the track and then you can wonder what all the fuss is about! It's a fairly standard funky pop song with a reasonably contemporary production and some cute synth/sample parts. Any keyboard player worth their salt should have the ability and equipment to get close enough for the average audience member to be satisfied. [/quote] I must admit, the thing that struck me when I first heard Uptown Funk was how retro it sounded.

I'd agree that the Beatles were a unique cultural and social phenomenon which does not invite direct comparison with anything before or since, I can see that even as someone born in 1981. What I'm less keen on is the suggestion that exposure to that somehow makes anyone who was a certain age in a certain place at a certain time inherently wiser, more insightful and all-around [i]better[/i] than the rest of us. That sort of attitude can only lead to complacency and stagnation in music IMO. As a somewhat related example, I know a first-generation hippy who will cheerfully remind anyone within earshot that he was at Woodstock as though that grants him some sort of special status. He usually mentions this when trying to impress younger women. There is another guy I've chatted with now and again (some friends of mine have worked with him) who [i]played[/i] at Woodstock. He generally doesn't mention this unless someone brings it up, and even then he doesn't tend to hold forth on the matter. He wrote some songs that I grew up listening to which are now part of the inside of my head and turns out to be an unassuming and generally lovely bloke. I know which of the two has earned the greater respect from me.

I wonder if you could cover just the flat tops of the white keys with some kind of adhesive material like car pinstripe tape or sign makers vinyl? That stuff seems surprisingly sturdy but would still be easier to undo than spray paint.

[quote name='Bilbo' timestamp='1441095286' post='2855918'] I never got the issue about Wals and weight. It may be because I am 6'1" and 17 stone and that the 'extra' weight of a Wal is, in percentage terms, relatively minimal. It may also be that I have played one almost exclusively for 29 years and cannot remember what a lighter bass feels like. Compared to manipulating a double bass, it is a dream. [/quote] I'm going to guess that your performances are a little less physical than Flea's though. I imagine that sort of thing wouldn't get you asked back to jazz gigs!

There are some who would suggest that flow chart should be considerably simpler and with one fewer outcome.

This will hopefully make the reason for the plug a bit clearer. The anchor at the end of the rod extends past the end of the channel routed from the rear and is a larger diameter, so it is necessary to drill through from the headstock end.

[quote name='fretmeister' timestamp='1441047165' post='2855671'] Don't want to play a 14lb bass for a two hour show? [/quote] I think this might have something in it. McCartney is an older guy and Flea jumps about a lot! I'm not sure I'd choose a heavier bass for gigging in either circumstance, however good it sounded in the studio.