Beer of the Bass

I can think of a few live recordings from the late 60s and early 70s where I actively enjoy the bass sound. One of those would be Miles Davis' Live Evil album, where I think Micheal Henderson was using a Fender Showman rig (from photos around that time). It's a good sound, clear enough but with some grit when he digs in harder, and I wouldn't have a problem gigging with a sound like that now. But that was recorded in a small club, and it's quite possible that the same rig used in a larger hall might be a farty mess.

I have a hunch that any deficiencies were down to the cabs more than the amps, as a decent old valve 100 watter through modern speakers is a joy to play through IMO.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442078094' post='2864302'] No..it is because an awful lot of players can't cope with real hi quality as it isn't always very forgiving...so you hear an awful lot of stuff that you rather wouldn't. The same reason gtrs always want a distortion element in their sound [/quote] I don't agree with this, as I'm quite familiar with how my bass sounds through a simple DI into a desk and monitors and I've owned various heads both coloured and close to flat. I don't think a coloured sound is necessarily more forgiving than a flat one - for example the slightly scooped and treble-boosted voicing built into my GK MB200 is a lot more revealing of sloppy playing than the very clean and flat Acoustic Image Clarus I owned when comparing the two side-by-side. This is because the treble emphasis of the GK really brings out any fret buzz and clank which is less noticeable with a flatter voicing. Compressed sounds (including light drive) can also be revealing in their own way as they reduce the dynamic range. While this can certainly disguise any unintentional peaks, it also brings up quieter artifacts of your playing closer to the level of everything else which can make any sloppiness more noticeable. When playing guitar, I find that a small valve combo with Fender-ish voicing keeps me on my toes more than a clean and relatively flat Polytone, for example. If you like your amp and cab to be a certain way that's fine, but please don't flatter yourself that this makes you an inherently superior musician to anyone with different preferences.

I had a more conventional EUB from the same maker, though I was never sure what he was going for with these ones. With the 34" scale and flat fingerboard it's really a fretless bass guitar on a stick.

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1442076471' post='2864286'] I'm pretty sure that a previous ad by the same guy, with a similar spiel in Drummer-ese has been posted here before. Pretty sure willies were mentioned there too. Anyone else remember it? Jon. [/quote] You're right, here it is: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bass-guitar-SB-Humbucker-willy-strong-punch-/201303937766?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2edea652e6&nma=true&si=m8BC2WIi1c%252FoY9WpklZzLKOW7Eg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bass-guitar-SB-Humbucker-willy-strong-punch-/201303937766?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2edea652e6&nma=true&si=m8BC2WIi1c%252FoY9WpklZzLKOW7Eg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url] I think I've figured out that "fredboat" means "fretboard", so maybe "willy" means "really" in drummer-speak?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442055023' post='2864085'] That isn't what I was disputing though. I wasn't disputing it mainly because I agree. [/quote] You may have noticed that in my post this morning I did not quote you or any other poster, intending more to see if some general points raised could be further explored. Yet you responded in a way that was (IMO) rather dismissive and seemed to be focussed on whether or not you had used words which I had not quoted you as using. It wasn't meant to be a personal thing about who was right or wrong. TBH I'm finding your posting style very difficult to engage with on what could otherwise be an interesting discussion. I should probably log off and play some bass...

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442053408' post='2864053'] Well, no... All the problems you listed aren't specific or exclusive to cheap instruments. All you've said is that repairing them would exceed the value of the guitar. They haven't broken because they're cheap, so this isn't a "buy well - buy once" situation. I also don't think I've used the term unjustifiable indulgence. Indulgences are fine, IMO. [/quote] I don't think you can break it down to an answer as simple as yes or no, unless you get some particular satisfaction out of being dismissive. What I'm saying is that buying products which rely on the cheaper labour of the far East and are then treated as disposable is a type of consumerism which some people are uncomfortable with. Hard to dispute that, really.

Here's another angle to the consumerism thing; If you play something like a US Fender (for example) for a few years and the frets get worn down, generally you'd have it re-fretted. With cheaper instruments this is less likely to be your choice, as excepting a few DIYers a sub-£100 bass which needs a re-fret is scrap to most people. Many luthiers will refuse jobs which exceed the value of the instrument. In general, less expensive instruments tend to have shorter working lives even though this is sometimes due to the economics of having them repaired rather than the quality of the instruments. It's not just refrets either, you could find yourself in the same situation with a headstock break on a Gibson-style neck or crack repairs on an acoustic. So what one person may view as an unjustifiable indulgence, someone else might view as a canny purchase under the old "Buy well, buy once" approach. Which one of those looks more like rampant consumerism is debatable.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1441971756' post='2863372'] It's really light to carry. I'd say making one that has a docking port to take the amp would be a cool option; so the amp is protected and saves you carrying it as a separate item. [/quote] I found that my EA Wizzy 10 (which is very close in size to this) and a Markbass or other small head fit very neatly inside a padded bag meant for a cajon (which are usually around 30 x 30 x 50cm). So that could be a good option for something you can sling over your shoulder and lug around.

No mention of Ivor Cutler yet? Some of his songs definitely tend towards the novelty category, but there's a bit more going on than that. I think my favourite album is Ludo, for its slightly fuller sound with bass and drums. The songs are either daft like this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4NRTks2M50"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4NRTks2M50[/url] Or whimsical but beautiful like this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7IiSdCkEw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7IiSdCkEw[/url]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1441966239' post='2863290'] Because that's what the likes of BC are about - gear talk. We are mostly all anoraks and nerds and it gives us pleasure. [/quote] Exactly that. There are many more musicians out there who just pick up something that works and makes the sound they want, then gig it for years without any further thought. Generally these are not the same people who spend time on bass forums.

Nice, and it'll look good on stage. It has a bit of a Charvel/Jackson vibe about it, but thankfully without the pointy headstock!

I think these have come up on here before, but I thought it might be worth mentioning in case anyone is looking for a cheap and very workable pickup. A couple of months ago I picked up one of the J-Tone pickups which are sold on eBay, the black rubber covered one which looks a little like a K&K Bass Max. While I prefer to use my mic setup where practical, I've used the J-Tone at several gigs now and I'm quite impressed with it. Mine is the same model as this: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/J-tone-Big-double-Bass-Pick-up-/200613316399?hash=item2eb57c472f"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2eb57c472f[/url] Like any bridge pickup, it's not "my bass only louder" but it's well balanced and not harsh at the top end. The output seems quite healthy straight into the 1Mohm input of my GK MB200, it's not noisy and seems quite feedback resistant. One of the gigs was a party in a barn with PA reinforcement, and it coped with that volume without any problems. On my bass it sounds better than the Upton Rev Solo II did. The jack mounting (though functional) is perhaps not the most attractive, so I'm using a Lando jack clamp instead. But for £28 it's hard to find fault with! I haven't tried any of the other models, but I can confirm that this one works and works well.

This sort of thing pops up across most of the different decades and musical styles. I was a little taken aback to read about the battle of the trad jazzers vs the modernists at the 1960 Beaulieu Jazz festival: [url="http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jun/19/popandrock2"]http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jun/19/popandrock2[/url] You don't get that much of that with Jazz audiences these days!

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1441820737' post='2862078'] I want a stack of 4! [/quote] You should do it! I wonder if a pair of the 2x10"s might be more sensible though...

I think most of the time they know, but they have the time and patience to hold out in case there's one guy who'll pay the asking price. After all, they only need to find one.

[quote name='skankdelvar' timestamp='1441732817' post='2861331'] It [i]may[/i] be a reference to the occasional short sailing trips organised by the cancer charity for him and other young people who are either undergoing treatment or in remission. [/quote] Indeed, and I hope he has a good time. I was just entertained at the notion of knowingly starting off a contentious thread just before going away for a few days, so that he has something entertaining to read through on his return.

Hmm, could that be a bit of a "light the blue touchpaper and stand well back" moment from Milty there?

8x10"s can be very cheap secondhand, as I reckon just about every bass player buys one at some point and then realises they can never be bothered to haul it around for gigs.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441550091' post='2859708'] Of course I recognise that what I think is required for a certain gig is not what everyone else thinks. That was the point. I don't justify these things in the same way, and I was curious to know how other people did. [/quote] Words and phrases like "unjustifiable", "indulgence" and "mealy-mouthed" suggest that you're not very willing to accept those other views when they are offered. I would feel less confident dismissing the experience-based opinions of people with vastly more gigging experience than myself, as you appear to do a couple of times in this thread. I'm not posting this to be unfriendly, just trying to offer my view as to why the thread has gone less than smoothly.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441543904' post='2859650'] Wrong. I'm not. [/quote] Professional or otherwise, that seems rather like splitting hairs. My point is, if you're going to write blogs on why we "need" to change our strings regularly or why we should pay extra for coated strings, you ought to be able to perceive that your judgement of what is needed for a given musical activity may not apply universally.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1441542023' post='2859625'] All this "I bring two basses in case one breaks" and "I buy superior quality gear because it's more reliable" just seem like mealy-mouthed justifications for what is simply an indulgence, although so many here seem to be unwilling to admit that's what it is. [/quote] Declaring other peoples behaviour indulgent or unjustifiable does seem overly judgemental, so it's not surprising that you may have annoyed a few people. Look at it this way; you're professionally involved in a business which sells strings, right? If I was to declare that a five quid set of generic far eastern bass strings would do a perfectly adequate job, audiences couldn't tell the difference and spending £17 on a premium US made product like a set of D'Addarios was an unjustifiable indulgence I dare say you would disagree with me. It's surely not too much of a leap to realise that people may think that way about instruments.

I hope whoever proofread that article is feeling a little sheepish at this point for misspelling the bands name in the headline. AD/DC, anyone?

Some of the 50s Sun Ra stuff uses percussion almost but not entirely in the way you describe, where the percussion is another voice rather than just a rhythmic backing. I can't think of any tunes where it carries the whole song, but there are elements of it in this. [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I5FBhGNwiTU[/media]

Come to think of it, I've heard one or two local metal bands whose bass sound somewhat resembles that noise.