Beer of the Bass

It must be a bugger to play in tune too, since the zero fret is just a marker now and the string length starts at the nut behind that. All the fret lines must be slightly sharp!

[quote name='Big_Stu' timestamp='1442321214' post='2866011'] Before Cash Converters it was much more fun checking out gear in "proper junk shops" like Roddy Boston's on Leith Walk, or the one briefly on Montgomery Street and there was another on Elm Row. [/quote] Ah yes, I bought my first amp from Boston's. Those shops were much more fun when I was a naive teenager with no idea where they got the gear from! I think reading the news articles about the proprietor later on soured it for me slightly - every now and again I wonder where that amp might have been nicked from.

[quote name='spongebob' timestamp='1442334696' post='2866158'] I must admit, I have close in recent months. Just dissatisfaction with bands/gigs/musicians. Music has always been my life - social life, what fills up my head all day. I started to think how, or if, I could live without it - and wondered how much I do it because of the love of it, or simply because it's just 'what I do'? I've played with other musicians for nearly 30 years, started jamming at 11...so all my life, really. I feel the band and gig scene has definitely shrunk, and the opportunities are less. However, I think you can reach a point when you feel like you've done it all - I could play the same gigs for another 10 years, and they'll be still screaming for Mustang....! Like you've reached as far as it'll go, and it's just an endless loop of repetition after that....with a Mustang soundtrack. As has been mentioned - do you play anything just to be out there playing? Or do you fill your time with something else? Bad patch, I hope.... [/quote] I've got something similar going on at the moment. I had a couple of bass guitar gigs over August after having laid off it for a while. I was kind of enthused going into it, but the gigs just weren't particularly satisfying, even though I'd enjoyed exactly the same gigs in previous years it just felt a little flat this time. Another band I play in (on guitar) is feeling that way too, as we're gigging only sporadically and they always seem to be in the middle of the night in dismal concrete rooms to wasted audiences who would jump up and down to anything. We've got an album in the bag ready to be pressed, but we faffed about for so long doing it that it's all songs we were playing three years ago, which cuts down the excitement slightly. The most enjoyable thing I've got going on at the moment are some fairly ad-hoc jazz gigs on double bass with a quartet that barely exists between gigs and doesn't rehearse. I don't really have jazz chops so I'm winging it to some extent, and I guess the learning curve is part of the enjoyment there. I'm almost inclined to pursue that angle for the moment rather than more structured bands.

It occurs to me that the bands who appeared on OGWT didn't tend to be the biggest touring acts of the day (your Led Zeps and Deep Purples), more the upper-mid level of the business. I don't mean to say that they weren't great bands, more that they were the sort of acts who'd appear in a decent sized hall or club in town rather than a stadium. So I wonder if those bands didn't quite have the resources to have huge, well maintained state-of-the-art gear (with the crew to match) like the biggest bands would.

[quote name='Rich' timestamp='1442333853' post='2866146'] If I purchase something, it's because there's a particular need that it's filling. Is that what you mean by justify? Surely if I need an acoustic guitar, and there a couple one of which is £500 and the other £2000, and I try them and on balance[i] I prefer [/i]the £2k one, and it's fulfilling that need, then it's 'justified', right? [/quote] I think my views on this are affected both by having played some very nice acoustics (meaning that I'm familiar with the differences) and by knowing a couple of UK luthiers who build them. The ones I've met don't consider themselves to be dealing in luxury items, they'd rather see their instruments played by working musicians than displayed as a status symbol. I would consider that regardless of the numbers involved, it's quite reasonable for an active musician to obtain an instrument of good quality made by people earning a living wage if it's within their means to do so.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442332476' post='2866124'] That doesn't say to whom, though. My wording was fine. Some posters have trawled this thread and tried to make a mockery of my original point, simply because they disagree. Like I said much earlier in the thread - I see it differently, and (some of) you don't seem to be able to handle that without getting very upset. Resorting to pedantry to try and make petty points to prove that you're right to be upset about my opinion isn't a good look for you, Beer. [/quote] I'm not upset in the slightest. It's just that you seem to have a knack of rubbing people up the wrong way and then acting as if you're oblivious to why this happens. This would not be the first thread where this has happened. I figure that this could either be intentional or unintentional. I considered that in the latter case, it might be useful offer my suggestions as to why people respond as they do. But at this point I'm leaning towards thinking that you post in this manner intentionally, in which case you're edging closer and closer to my ignore list.

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442330973' post='2866098'] There must be some confusion. I think it's unjustifiable. I don't know why me holding that opinion means that you need to somehow go to some shadowy minister of justifications and seek their approval. One simply can't state an opinion without people starting the ol' whataboutery. [/quote] Have a look at the definition of the word unjustifiable: "Not able to be shown to be right or reasonable" (from oxforddictionaries.com) When you describe something as "unjustifiable", you are not simply stating your own opinion, you are dismissing the other persons views or actions as unreasonable or wrong. If that wasn't what you meant by it, you need to consider your choice of words more carefully. If that [i]was[/i] what you meant, the reactions are quite reasonable IMO.

I haven't met or heard of anyone using these, so while they may turn out to be fine it could be a bit of a leap into the unknown for your first set. From what I can gather they're a low tension, slap-friendly nylon set. If that's what you're looking for, I'd look at Innovation strings first as a number of people on here have used them and should be able to advise on which set would suit you best.

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1442317062' post='2865963'] wonder how much they must have paid for it [/quote] I've heard from other folk that they typically offer around 25% of their final selling price when items are brought in to them. So probably about £50-60? Selling stuff to Cash Converters is usually an act of desperation.

I haven't had any pickguards from them, but I've had a few parts from EY guitars in Hong Kong and they're been fine to deal with. They have pickguards for a good price which are sold as fitting American Standard models. [url="http://www.eyguitarmusic.com/"]http://www.eyguitarmusic.com/[/url]

It does seem odd to post on a forum with "chat" in the name and then act all aggrieved when a conversation develops!

I can think of a few live recordings from the late 60s and early 70s where I actively enjoy the bass sound. One of those would be Miles Davis' Live Evil album, where I think Micheal Henderson was using a Fender Showman rig (from photos around that time). It's a good sound, clear enough but with some grit when he digs in harder, and I wouldn't have a problem gigging with a sound like that now. But that was recorded in a small club, and it's quite possible that the same rig used in a larger hall might be a farty mess.

I have a hunch that any deficiencies were down to the cabs more than the amps, as a decent old valve 100 watter through modern speakers is a joy to play through IMO.

[quote name='JTUK' timestamp='1442078094' post='2864302'] No..it is because an awful lot of players can't cope with real hi quality as it isn't always very forgiving...so you hear an awful lot of stuff that you rather wouldn't. The same reason gtrs always want a distortion element in their sound [/quote] I don't agree with this, as I'm quite familiar with how my bass sounds through a simple DI into a desk and monitors and I've owned various heads both coloured and close to flat. I don't think a coloured sound is necessarily more forgiving than a flat one - for example the slightly scooped and treble-boosted voicing built into my GK MB200 is a lot more revealing of sloppy playing than the very clean and flat Acoustic Image Clarus I owned when comparing the two side-by-side. This is because the treble emphasis of the GK really brings out any fret buzz and clank which is less noticeable with a flatter voicing. Compressed sounds (including light drive) can also be revealing in their own way as they reduce the dynamic range. While this can certainly disguise any unintentional peaks, it also brings up quieter artifacts of your playing closer to the level of everything else which can make any sloppiness more noticeable. When playing guitar, I find that a small valve combo with Fender-ish voicing keeps me on my toes more than a clean and relatively flat Polytone, for example. If you like your amp and cab to be a certain way that's fine, but please don't flatter yourself that this makes you an inherently superior musician to anyone with different preferences.

I had a more conventional EUB from the same maker, though I was never sure what he was going for with these ones. With the 34" scale and flat fingerboard it's really a fretless bass guitar on a stick.

[quote name='Bassassin' timestamp='1442076471' post='2864286'] I'm pretty sure that a previous ad by the same guy, with a similar spiel in Drummer-ese has been posted here before. Pretty sure willies were mentioned there too. Anyone else remember it? Jon. [/quote] You're right, here it is: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bass-guitar-SB-Humbucker-willy-strong-punch-/201303937766?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2edea652e6&nma=true&si=m8BC2WIi1c%252FoY9WpklZzLKOW7Eg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557"]http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/bass-guitar-SB-Humbucker-willy-strong-punch-/201303937766?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_3&hash=item2edea652e6&nma=true&si=m8BC2WIi1c%252FoY9WpklZzLKOW7Eg%253D&orig_cvip=true&rt=nc&_trksid=p2047675.l2557[/url] I think I've figured out that "fredboat" means "fretboard", so maybe "willy" means "really" in drummer-speak?

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442055023' post='2864085'] That isn't what I was disputing though. I wasn't disputing it mainly because I agree. [/quote] You may have noticed that in my post this morning I did not quote you or any other poster, intending more to see if some general points raised could be further explored. Yet you responded in a way that was (IMO) rather dismissive and seemed to be focussed on whether or not you had used words which I had not quoted you as using. It wasn't meant to be a personal thing about who was right or wrong. TBH I'm finding your posting style very difficult to engage with on what could otherwise be an interesting discussion. I should probably log off and play some bass...

[quote name='MiltyG565' timestamp='1442053408' post='2864053'] Well, no... All the problems you listed aren't specific or exclusive to cheap instruments. All you've said is that repairing them would exceed the value of the guitar. They haven't broken because they're cheap, so this isn't a "buy well - buy once" situation. I also don't think I've used the term unjustifiable indulgence. Indulgences are fine, IMO. [/quote] I don't think you can break it down to an answer as simple as yes or no, unless you get some particular satisfaction out of being dismissive. What I'm saying is that buying products which rely on the cheaper labour of the far East and are then treated as disposable is a type of consumerism which some people are uncomfortable with. Hard to dispute that, really.

Here's another angle to the consumerism thing; If you play something like a US Fender (for example) for a few years and the frets get worn down, generally you'd have it re-fretted. With cheaper instruments this is less likely to be your choice, as excepting a few DIYers a sub-£100 bass which needs a re-fret is scrap to most people. Many luthiers will refuse jobs which exceed the value of the instrument. In general, less expensive instruments tend to have shorter working lives even though this is sometimes due to the economics of having them repaired rather than the quality of the instruments. It's not just refrets either, you could find yourself in the same situation with a headstock break on a Gibson-style neck or crack repairs on an acoustic. So what one person may view as an unjustifiable indulgence, someone else might view as a canny purchase under the old "Buy well, buy once" approach. Which one of those looks more like rampant consumerism is debatable.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1441971756' post='2863372'] It's really light to carry. I'd say making one that has a docking port to take the amp would be a cool option; so the amp is protected and saves you carrying it as a separate item. [/quote] I found that my EA Wizzy 10 (which is very close in size to this) and a Markbass or other small head fit very neatly inside a padded bag meant for a cajon (which are usually around 30 x 30 x 50cm). So that could be a good option for something you can sling over your shoulder and lug around.

No mention of Ivor Cutler yet? Some of his songs definitely tend towards the novelty category, but there's a bit more going on than that. I think my favourite album is Ludo, for its slightly fuller sound with bass and drums. The songs are either daft like this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4NRTks2M50"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4NRTks2M50[/url] Or whimsical but beautiful like this: [url="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7IiSdCkEw"]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sk7IiSdCkEw[/url]

[quote name='ezbass' timestamp='1441966239' post='2863290'] Because that's what the likes of BC are about - gear talk. We are mostly all anoraks and nerds and it gives us pleasure. [/quote] Exactly that. There are many more musicians out there who just pick up something that works and makes the sound they want, then gig it for years without any further thought. Generally these are not the same people who spend time on bass forums.

Nice, and it'll look good on stage. It has a bit of a Charvel/Jackson vibe about it, but thankfully without the pointy headstock!

I think these have come up on here before, but I thought it might be worth mentioning in case anyone is looking for a cheap and very workable pickup. A couple of months ago I picked up one of the J-Tone pickups which are sold on eBay, the black rubber covered one which looks a little like a K&K Bass Max. While I prefer to use my mic setup where practical, I've used the J-Tone at several gigs now and I'm quite impressed with it. Mine is the same model as this: [url="http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/J-tone-Big-double-Bass-Pick-up-/200613316399?hash=item2eb57c472f"]http://www.ebay.co.u...=item2eb57c472f[/url] Like any bridge pickup, it's not "my bass only louder" but it's well balanced and not harsh at the top end. The output seems quite healthy straight into the 1Mohm input of my GK MB200, it's not noisy and seems quite feedback resistant. One of the gigs was a party in a barn with PA reinforcement, and it coped with that volume without any problems. On my bass it sounds better than the Upton Rev Solo II did. The jack mounting (though functional) is perhaps not the most attractive, so I'm using a Lando jack clamp instead. But for £28 it's hard to find fault with! I haven't tried any of the other models, but I can confirm that this one works and works well.

This sort of thing pops up across most of the different decades and musical styles. I was a little taken aback to read about the battle of the trad jazzers vs the modernists at the 1960 Beaulieu Jazz festival: [url="http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jun/19/popandrock2"]http://www.theguardian.com/music/2005/jun/19/popandrock2[/url] You don't get that much of that with Jazz audiences these days!