Musicman20

...and I also think some of us would be much less critical of the situation if they owned an AC, knew the chap and could vouch for him, had a part in the dealings, or indeed had a 'deal' or friendship which they want to keep. I doubt the pitchforks would be out like this if it was a UK builder, UK amp manufacturer, or a UK store/business.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376411106' post='2173585'] Eh? Have you never heard of TripAdvisor? Read a review on Amazon? Taken note of feedback on eBay? Or would you rather all this went on behind closed doors? [/quote] I think ultimately reviews of service will always exist, no matter what people do. If its a bad service, you should be allowed to discuss it but the extent of the AC thread is mind boggling. Threats? Bullying? Far too much.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1376409623' post='2173551'] I still fancy a Big Al, that would be different to the Bongo but still really cool IMO, I think I want one! [/quote] I can agree with that. The Bongo is just a beast though. The Big Al gets very cool and vintagey, and its SO fun to play, but I've yet to hear anything as powerful and clear as the Bongo....

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376407419' post='2173509'] If I fancied an AC bass , this saga wouldn't deter me from ordering one in the slightest . [/quote] To be honest, me neither, I'd just be VERY specific, which you would for $5,000. I'd be very careful, which you would for $5,000. I've seen some awful examples of high end basses (all different manufacturers), but I've seen some very good examples as well.

[quote name='risingson' timestamp='1376407370' post='2173508'] Then again TB'ers can be rabid. I'm sure he was probably equally pissed off at the level of animosity levelled at him by the keyboard warriors from the forum. Still, not professional at all. [/quote] I agree. All forums contain these types of people who push and push, and I've experienced it myself. If I were an angrier and less patient person, I would have acted differently, but we all have different personalities.

Would it not be a little fairer on the chaps who are dealing with AC on new and used basses to leave the situation as it is? Not only are we affecting AC's potential orders and future customer base, but we are also affecting the stores who deal with AC. The OP is getting his refund, which he is entitled to. Something is clearly not 'right' with the bass, and he paid a lot of money for it, but we are all seeing one side of the story. I am not defending either party, but a resolution is on its way. After the various threads creating problems and issues with other manufacturers, (not just basses) and the points that were raised previously, I suggest we act as we stated we should previously.

[quote name='wateroftyne' timestamp='1376389846' post='2173091'] If you're the Ferrari of the bass world, the only type in this list should be A That's part of the reason people are willing to pay £3300 for one of your instruments. [/quote] I've seen more arrogant/aggressive businesses/businessmen in the world of music and instrument making than I expected, so the B option is unfortunately quite common.

The problem is, you often have three-four types of customer service. A. Unbelievably helpful service, followed by after service, which means you go back time and time again. B. You then have the more 'arrogant' aggressive service, which basically means the buyer has little control or say, and some will walk away quite easily, purely because they know they'd have a fight on their hands if an issue arose. C. You then have the more everyday service, who tend to follow the rules and expectations, but won't go beyond anything else. D. Poor service, poor communication, leading to lost sales. There aren't many places who deal with people as per A.

At least the OP gets his cash back. I am a little confused as to how it got to him in that condition. I still think something isn't right. There are now posts saying 'AC basses will lose value' or similar; probably by someone who doesn't own one.

[quote name='swanbrook' timestamp='1376346626' post='2172735'] See my first post, 3600 for a mm ltd and the worst hard case I have ever had. MM old cases are class the new type are cheap and nasty. I would much rather a good quality soft case or no case at all. [/quote] Which one did you get?! That doesn't sound like the factory case to me. The Ltd's often get a very nice 'traditional' old Fender type case with plush linings. The normal Musicman cases are the large modern plastic ones, (not as heavy and cut out correctly for each bass design).

The H sounds exactly the same as the HH in the bridge pup. Any variations (unless we are talking 2EQ single H) are to do with different EQ settings, different wood, different fingerboards, different strings, old/new strings, different players, and minor differences in pup windings etc... So, if you want the traditional Stingray H tone, and more, get the HH or HS. If you just want one pickup, get the H. The Bongo HH / HS has a tighter bridge H tone...as its closer.

Interesting to see the Bongo stands out the most. I know its a very obscure looking instrument, (although in my eyes, much more to my tastes than a single cut bass with an expensive figured top) but I found after a while I just got used to it, and now I actually like it.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1376308130' post='2171880'] On the face of it , this is a shocking way for AC to do business , but what I would like to point out is that there are always two sides to every story , and if we were to hear directly from Jimmy Coppollo his version of events it [i]might[/i] ( emphasis on [i]might [/i]) put a slightly different perspective on things , so I would be wary of Talkbass or any other internet forum acting as judge , jury and executioner in this case or any other such situation until the full process of legal redress has been gone through . [/quote] Completely agree. I will not get involved in the car crash of a thread over there, or state what I personally think of the bass/AC etc, but something ISN'T right here. I cannot believe this has happened. It makes me wonder if its been in storage or something else has happened. No one knows exactly has happened. We have had similar threads on here, (yes, I know obviously) but with nowhere near that kind of response and not as serious as these issues. I think we should probably be careful what we say. I do not think we should draw any particular attention or attack either party as we basically have 'no dog in this fight'.

I was a solid 'pick only' player until 3-4 years ago, then I took up fingerstyle. I'm still incredibly fast and capable with a pick, (15+ years of playing Rancid/NOFX type speedy basslines) but I now 90% play fingerstyle.

Amazing band.

The absolute worse cases are the cheaper Warwick ones. I don't understand how a manufacturer selling a bass for £2500 or more can't deal with a good case manufacturer (just like how Overwater and Shuker deal with Hiscox) to get a high end cases made with their logo on. It completes the package for me. Even if I don't use the hardcase much I want one or a very high end hybrid bag like the Sadowsky one.

Yep, more low mids compared to huge low bass with a P bass.

..and another thing, stick a set of old strings on the bass, or even try old flats, roll the treble back, bump the bass, it sounds HUGE. Nothing like the normal Ray tone that people expect.

Oh, to add to this. If you want the classic Musicman tone, I'd go for one with alnico pickups, (ANY Stingray 4) 2 or 3 band EQ, (the 2 band has more deep bass and snap, the 3 band allows more mid control...both sound VERY similar) H, HS or HH, (they traditional bridge H sounds identical, trust me). If you want a 5 string, all the latest (2008 ish onwards) Stingray 5's have alnico pups. If you want to spend a little more on a posh neck, and old features, slab body etc, get a Stingray Classic 4 or 5. FYI - The USA made Sterling is like a Stingray, smaller body, thinner neck (very quick neck), 3 band EQ only, ceramic magnet pups. The Sterling sounds MORE aggressive, more middy, very good at cutting the mix. The Bongo is another animal. A very cool bass. It took me a few years to get used to the shape then I bought two. The H model has the H in the normal Stingray place, the HS and HH don't....but they sound great...and a different take on the tradtional Musicman tone. The Big Al is a cool bass as well, more so the SSS version. Then you have the Reflex, Gamechanger, etc.

[quote name='cloudburst' timestamp='1376002823' post='2168605'] Sorry - I always mix this up :-) My bad. CB [/quote] No worries man

Quick note, the HH and HS basses have the traditional bridge humbucker in exactly the same place as the H models, APART from the Bongo. Nothing sounds or feels like a Musicman. Nothing. Yes, if you want a quick sale I agree they lose money, but if you bide your time and find someone after that model they keep their value (in my experience). The prices have shot up, they aren't massively popular at the moment, but that will change as trends change. At the moment it's all 'oh I have a P bass in sunburst/rosewood/tort with flats and I've finally found my sound', yeah it sounds good but it's boring as hell.