redstriper

Particularly tropical on the west coast this month

Whatever it is, it's not the weather

Nice one Rasta

Good points Musky, truth is I don't know what I'm looking for and may well already have it It was a Trace 8x10 and I think an Acoustic 2x18 that I remember sounding very deep and punchy, but it was a long time ago and may be rose tinted memories. The problem with trying cabs at home is that they can sound great at moderate volumes, but quite different in a loud gig situation.

[quote name='owen' timestamp='1391722254' post='2360699'] Yeah yeah yeah...... try the ACME.... yadda yadda yadda. The ONLY time you will ever have an obscure piece of bass kit (possibly the only one in the UK) within a 10 minute drive in this area and it has been months since you said you were going to! [/quote] OK I'll be round in 10 mins........... just hope I don't like it

Nice one mcnach

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1391712675' post='2360552'] It depends on how thick the walls are, Steve, but the internal volume of the Flite cab is probably around 55 litres. Have a look at the yellow curve in the diagram I posted for the 3015LF - that's how much bass you are losing because of the small cab. The Ashdown MAG cabs are around 85 litres internal volume - still not big enough for your particular needs and they have a problem with inadequate porting which limits maximum output (porting is a subject that the three of us have discussed at length and that Phil will talk about in detail later on in this thread). If you could modify the Flite cab to take a 12 you would get better results. I don't know of a sound reinforcement 15" speaker that will produce reggae-style bass in a 55-litre cab. [/quote] Very interesting. The Flite cab walls are thick, being a foam filled composite and I can see from the diagram that I am losing bass response with such a small cab. The problem with diagrams is that one can't actually hear the differences, so it is difficult to make judgements. I guess it would be possible to modify the Flite cab [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]to take a 12, but it's hard to know exactly how much the sound would improve.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I could get a larger cab for the 3015LF if I could find a suitable lightweight model - Flite do custom orders, so that is a possibility.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Or I could start again with a new 12" cab from Acme or similar.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif] [/font][/color][color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Or I could just forget all this and carry on quite happily as I have for the past few years [/font][/color]

Thanks Chris, that doesn't sound too bad, does it take account of the inset handle and the quite thick walls? I have noticed it sounds deeper on a hollow wooden stage and I've considered placing it on an empty wooden box to extend the bass response - cheaper than a new cab, but would it work?

[quote name='LawrenceH' timestamp='1391707940' post='2360484'] Part of the problem is finding suitable drivers for a 1- or 2-way design; dedicated bass guitar drivers is already a very niche market. The lower efficiency 'true subwoofer' PA drivers are not designed to run above ~120Hz so you get fairly horrible midrange responses or at the least, a design where directivity narrows very quickly starting around a few hundred Hz thanks in part to the large diameter voicecoils employed. These in turn will cross to a midbass driver to deal with ~100-2/3k, which is what is used for many bass cab designs. Whereas for your application you would want a driver capable of running ~30-2500Hz and with decent off-axis presentation. The Acme driver appears to be based around a Kappalite frame, but presumably they have worked on the soft parts to eliminate a lot of the midrange spike from the LF design, likely at the further expense of mid-range efficiency. [/quote] Thanks for this. I think I am a bit unusual in my tonal requirements. I turn the low mids and upper mids EQ to zero on my LM11 and I use only the neck pick up on a Jazz bass with the tone rolled right off. I find the 3015LF still has plenty of top end for my needs and I look forward to comparing it to the Acme.

Thanks again Stevie. The 3015LF loaded Flite cab sounds great at moderate volumes, but I fear it loses deep bass at higher volumes as you suggest. I use it with another identical cab (different Eminence Delta non neo driver) for louder gigs. This works well, but I think I'm sill missing the level of deep bass that a larger cab would provide. I'm not sure how to work out litres but the outside of my cab measures 46 x 46 x 36cm, which is about as small as it could possibly be to fit the driver. How much perceived increase in volume and depth of tone would be provided by a larger cab, is hard to know. I tried the 3015LF in a larger Ashdown MAG cab and didn't notice any big difference in sound levels. The Flite cabs are wonderfully light and sound good, whilst not giving me the kind of chest thumping depth of an old school 2x18 or 8x10. This is a compromise that I am willing to accept for the reduced weight and size. But I can't help wondering if there is a better way - hence my interest in this thread. I've tried a lot of 12" cabs, but not found anything that sounds as deep or smooth as my Flite 15s. I look forward to trying the Acme 12" cab soon, but I fear it may have a very costly outcome. Apologies for derailing this thread with my personal situation [attachment=154466:Flite cab.jpg]

Thanks Stevie, things are becoming clearer now With the knowledge of the iron law, it shouldn't be too difficult to design a small lightweight cab that goes very deep, whilst needing a lot of power to drive it. And yet very few manufacturers provide such a thing to my knowledge, probably due to low demand - most bassists (not me) want high efficiency and extended treble response. As you say, the charts don't show how loud each driver will go before distorting and I can see this is a complicated science with no single answer for every user. My current solution is to use a Kappalite 3015LF in a very small lightweight Flite cab, which is a good compromise but I think the cab is too small to get the best out of the driver. I would be happy with a slightly heavier, larger cab, (this one weighs under 10kg) if it increased bass response and volume, but no such thing exists AFAIK. Hence my interest in 12" cabs, particularly the Acme Flatwound - I just can't bring myself to spend over £600 on a single small cab.

Thanks Balcro, I don't understand a word of that, but that's my problem and I appreciate your effort, my brain's just not big enough I'm happy to accept that for deep bass you need less sensitivity, without understanding the science.

Thanks all, I'm learning as I go......... so another stupid question that I just can't get my head round: Why does a cab have to be less sensitive to be more bassy? Is it because the volume is reduced when you filter out the higher frequencies and those frequencies are louder than the lower ones?

[quote name='stevie' timestamp='1390571323' post='2347001'] you can only increase bass extension if you are prepared to accept a reduction in overall sensitivity (as Acme have done, for example). [/quote] This is what interests me, I want a small(ish) light(ish) cab with deep bass extension for dub reggae, no need for much upper mids or treble. I am happy to use a more powerful amp in compensation for the lower sensitivity. The Acme flatwound 12 sounds perfect, but expensive and not available in the UK. I would be very interested in an Acme clone or similar cab and I presume the Eminence Kappalite 3012LF would be the most suitable driver? On a practical note - how do you reduce the overall sensitivity of such cabs?

Sounds like you need your original rig back - the [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Eden WT800 and 6x10 Warwick cab, or similar.[/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]I've compromised on chest thumping tone on stage for an easier life, huge heavy rigs are ok for you youngsters....[/font][/color]

Hey up Rasta, Do you need to boost the low end as much as you think? There may be enough bass by just cutting all the treble and middle without adding bass EQ on the amp. It's important to have a strong bass sound for the drummer and other musicians to hear, but it doesn't have to be excessively deep bass heavy on stage. The PA can handle the deep lows for FOH, taking pressure off the need for deep bass on stage - that's if you have a PA of course. Another thing - you can increase the bass response by placing the rig against a wall, or better still in a corner. If none of this works, you better start saving your pennies... I play reggae gigs with a markbass LM11 and 2 x lightweight 15" 8 ohm cabs. It's loud enough for small clubs with no PA, it's very deep sounding with no bass boost and all treble and mids cut on the amp. Finally - don't join a country band (yet)

[quote name='mike 110' timestamp='1391073166' post='2352835'] I've not seen this before , just bloody brilliant ! Redstriper you have my eternal gratitude [/quote] Glad to be of service, I found it after watching this: [media]http://youtu.be/7obsE0DNHAQ[/media]

Sorry if this has been posted before - thought it might be of some interest if you haven't seen it: [media]http://youtu.be/GBdFeNAxjFE[/media]

[media]http://youtu.be/7obsE0DNHAQ[/media]