redstriper

Thanks again for the info T Head, it explains why the Selmer valve amp felt like a wild stallion compared to the ss amps. BTW - can you tell me the mains fuse value for my TE AH 150 ? I was recently advised that the Trace combo is outdated and ineficient and that I would get more deep bass and volume from a modern lightweight rig. I tried markbass, aguilar, ashdown, epiphani, hartke and bergantino amps, cabs and combos, none of which had the warmth or volume of deep bass as the old trace. So I removed and re-housed the head and fitted a neo driver which at least means I can get it in and out of the car single handed. I still yearn for more oomph at bigger gigs with no PA and am considering adding another speaker - maybe a 2 x10 or another 15. It would be nice to get the sound and feel of an Ampeg 8 x 10 (my favourite cab) in something I can carry. Can you suggest anything that might do the job, bearing in mind that I play reggae and need a deep warm and punchy sound ? Which mesa cab do you use ? Maybe I should forget the arthritis and just go large !

Are you sure it's the amp and not your bass or cable ?

[quote name='stingrayfan' post='305836' date='Oct 13 2008, 10:38 PM']This is identical to the head I've got in my 1984 4x10 combo. That also has two things (MOSFETs) and is 150w but like you say, LOUD. There should be a date written in the power amp section (the back part) if you unscrew it. My amp tech remarked how smooth and clean these heads sound.[/quote] Smooth is the operative word, other amps have more growl but I love the clean warmth of this amp. I think the smoothness comes from the pre amp because I've slaved other amps from it and they seem to adopt the same character. I fed a new Hartke LH 1000 from the Trace pre amp and it sounded fantastic, far better for me than using the Hartke on it's own. Mine is from a 1985 1 x 15 combo, (I have the original receipt from Monkey Business in Romford) and I still use it with the old cab, I would be interested to try it with a 4 x 10 to compare tone and volume.

[quote name='BassInThePlace' post='305732' date='Oct 13 2008, 07:35 PM']AH250 MkIII doesn't have the effects loop. You can usually tell the difference between MkIV and MkV owing to the slightly different aesthetic features such as front-panel Output dial and effects loop location. Just like Thunderhead says, yours looks like a MkIV red.[/quote] Very interesting - it's nice to know what I've been playing through - a MkIV AH 150 and very nice too I decided to look for a new rig recently after finding that I ran out of volume at mid sized gigs where there is no PA. My tone is deep bass with no treble or upper mid and the speaker was distorting at higher volume levels. I was advised to get a more powerful amp, but having tried quite a few I found the speaker still distorted at the same volume level. The answer is more likely to be in adding another speaker and running the amp at 4 ohms, which is probably my next step. That way I can keep the sound I like and just get that bit more volume, I'm not sure whether to go for another 15 or a 2 x 10, or even a 4 x 10, but I don't want it to be too heavy and it needs to match the 15 for volume.

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='305704' date='Oct 13 2008, 06:57 PM']Valve amps do sound much louder for their rated power than solid-state, but even so I find that surprising! Those old Selmers are not even the loudest 50W valve amps...[/quote] Thanks again, do you know where I can buy spare fuses - these haven't been replaced in 23 years and it might be a good idea to have a couple of spares just in case. The Selmer was mad loud and incredibly full sounding. My 15" speaker could barely cope with it and I felt like it needed a lot more speakers to handle it. To be fair, it probably wasn't louder than the Hartke LH 1000 or maybe even the others, but it was the only one I felt likely to blow the speaker out of the cabinet if I turned up the volume and it just felt like a Harley compared to 3 mopeds. The Trace is still my favourite because it has 'my' sound and it works well with the single 15 for most of the gigs I do. The combo speaker cab is a quirky Trace design, narrow with an internal panel behind the driver and a massive front flared port. I was told that a more modern and larger cab would sound better, but having tried lots of other small cabs I still prefer this one and I wonder where all the advances in cab design from the past 1/4 Century have actually got us! The more modern gear I try, the less impressed I become.

[quote name='Thunderhead' post='305081' date='Oct 12 2008, 10:22 PM']The power amp number was probably written on the back in one of the little green boxes, but the writing usually fades. Do you remember seeing if it has two or four power transistors, when you had it apart? If two, it's a 150 (most likely if it came out of a combo) and if it has four it's a 250. You can also tell by the speaker fuse value, 5A for a 150 and 8A for a 250, but the writing often fades away too. (This is a brilliant piece of design that all solid-state amps should have by the way - just last week I fixed a 150 combo that some idiot sound engineer had plugged a DI box into the second speaker out of - I'm not sure exactly what then happened but the amp's speaker fuse blew, which means that if it hadn't, probably in any other amp it would have taken out the power transistors instead. 10 seconds and 35p to fix it, instead of an hour's work and a few pounds in parts. I didn't even charge the customer, I never had to move the amp into the workshop!) I've also compared one of these amps to a new 600W Ashdown, through the same cabinet, and the AH150 held its own - seriously. It had much more punch and dynamics, and although it probably wouldn't quite shift as much air it would certainly stand up at least as well in a mix. It just sounded better, too...[/quote] Thanks for the information, I have been trying to find out more about this amp with little success. The original owner's manual doesn't mention the amp power ! It does have the serial number, which is H4143. All the writing on the back has faded away, but I'm pretty sure it's a 150, there are 2 big blue round things inside, which I presume to be the power transistors. Can you tell me the mains fuse value ? To return to the original poster's question - I don't know if it's a Mark 3, 4 or 5, (how can you tell)? As far as I know the 1st Traces appeared in the late 70s, but were not generally available until 1980 when the GP11 pre amp was introduced to great aclaim - Norman Watt Roy of the Blockheads is still using his since buying it new in 1980. I recently compared it side by side to 3 new amps - Hartke LH 1000, Ashdown ABM 400, Markbass 450 and an ancient Selmer Treble n' Bass 50. I wouldn't change it for any of those, but if I had to choose one of them, it would be the Selmer which was the loudest of the lot. It seems like the older the amp and the lower the power, the louder and fuller the sound ! It's surprising to me how little the sound of bass amps has improved in the past 25 years - IMHO.

I'm just adding my experience to the pot. I think I have an AH 150, I say 'think' because it doesn't say anything about the model or wattage apart from GP11 on the front, which is the pre amp. It was part of a 1115 combo bought new in 1985 and I have recently removed the amp head and re housed it in a plywood sleeve to reduce the weight of the combo. I also replaced the Fane driver with a new Eminence neo unit to further reduce weight, but I digress............. The amp is excellent and has never had a problem in 23 years of regular use. I have tried lots of other amps and done many direct comparisons and I have not found anything that can give me the deep smooth tone that I get from this amp. It is very loud for the rated output and is more than enough for the 450 watt 8 ohm 15" speaker that I use with it. I would have no hesitation recommending a TE amp of this vintage, providing it has been looked after and the GP11 pre amp is first class.

[quote name='OldGit' post='299595' date='Oct 4 2008, 08:45 PM']That's how I have the reggae channel of my MB LMK set, more or less ... except I don't use the mid scoop filter. Works for me - loads of trouser flap in a creamy soup. Would that not do it for you, RS?[/quote] It very well might be the answer - I need to try one through my cab and do a direct comparison with the Trace to be sure. So if anyone in the North Wales area has one and feels like letting me have a go..........

[quote name='escholl' post='299524' date='Oct 4 2008, 06:33 PM']I'm in the process of switching to 2 1x18 cabs...so i know what you mean there It's too bad you just need/want more power out of your amp, is there any preamp out you can connect an external power amp to? [/quote] Most other bassists want treble clarity and presence but that's just not my scene. 2 x 18s would be great for my sound but not my back I use a single 15 which is the best weight to tone ratio I could find. There is a slave out from the Trace amp which I used to drive the Hartke LH1000 for a great big fat sound. Trouble is that it's 2 heavy amps to carry and I'm trying to lighten the load. The Trace is powerful enough on it's own for most small gigs and there's always a PA at bigger venues, it's only those middle size rooms where there's no decent PA that I need more power and that only happens very rarely. Trying the LH1000 was an education that made me realise I don't need any more power 99% of the time and my speaker can't handle much more volume than the Trace gives anyway. It also made me appreciate the eq on the Trace and that I'm fortunate to have the sound I love. After trying quite a few rigs, I've decided to stick with what I've got until something with more power turns up - it may just be a more powerful version of the Trace amp or a standalone GP11 and power amp unless I find one of the new breed of lightweight amps can do it. The closest I've got to 'my' sound with a modern amp is the markbass LM11 with both filters on full and all the eqs turned down except the low bass which was slightly boosted. Yes - I like it deep

[quote name='escholl' post='299480' date='Oct 4 2008, 05:27 PM']*shrug* i've had my best results by ensuring that the signal going into the amp is something i roughly already like, and then relying on the EQ to just adjust it slightly if needs be. To my mind, the need for radical EQ compensation seems to imply that there are other issues elsewhere, and radical EQ'ing will lead to phase shifts etc...on the other hand, if it's not broken, don't fix it, etc, etc. I wasn't saying there was anything wrong with EQ's like on the trace, they are certainly a more powerful tool than a "typical" 3-band eq. as we all know, there is no "right" or "wrong" way to do it, so perhaps wrong was the wrong word to use on my part.[/quote] Other issues elsewhere eh - You could be right there! Phase shifts etc.... - sorry, you've lost me now, I've been using this eq setting for 30 years in all kinds of venues and recordings with no problem so far. I do know the bass sound I like and how to get it - same as most reggae players it involves removing all treble and upper midrange frequencies. It's not really radical when all you want is bass from your bass.

[quote name='escholl' post='299417' date='Oct 4 2008, 03:53 PM']As for the eq, well, i set everything through my hands, a tone control, and a two band eq that most people seem to hate....and i get great results. if i really wanted extensive EQ control, then i would get a fully parametric EQ and be done with it. I've never really thought it hugely mattered anyways, if you're counting on an EQ to really "fix" or "save" your tone, you're probably doing it wrong anyways. As far as room compensation goes, well, if it's too boomy or bright, it's a whole lot easier to turn the knob that says "bass" or "treble" then to move around a bunch of sliders....[/quote] I must be doing it wrong because I do count on eq to get my tone. I use the graphic eq on my trace GP11 to remove all the top and mid frequencies. The eq on the Hartke LH will not let me do that, it sounds too brite for me even with the mid and treble at zero and the bass on 10. I tried running the Hartke from the GP11 with the eq flat on the Hartke and - there was my tone. I love the idea of a simple eq but in practise I seem to need the graphic to get my sound and the GP11 does the job. I am unusual in this respect and I'm sure the 3 tone controls on the LHs will be plenty for most 'normal' players. For me, I wish there was a graphic like the GP11 on the LH amps because my GP11 is stuck to an old 150 watt amp that I'd like to upgrade. The Kilo looks too big and heavy and the graphic eq may not have the same tone as I get from the GP11. Maybe I will look for a GP11 pre amp and run it through a Hartke LH unless I can find 'that' sound in a smaller single box.

[quote name='deksawyer' post='298812' date='Oct 3 2008, 06:24 PM']I assume most of the guys arguing in this thead havn't even heard one....yes/no? I had a quick play last week with one, through a Hartke XL4x10 and it sounded fantastic. The EQ may look limited but it actually works very well. The lack of gain control wasn't an issue either - I plugged in a G&L (which must be one of the loudest basses I've heard, even compared to a Wal) as well as a cheap P copy. Both sounded great. For £249, this is probably the best value starter head on the market. I say starter because that's exactly what this head is. If you thought the price was too good to be true, then you don't belong to the market sector this amp is amied at. Everybody, go and try one. D.[/quote] I had the use of the LH1000 for 3 days last week and I agree it's a great amp which blows the competition out of the water, The LH500 is basically 1/2 the LH1000 and plenty powerful enough for most players. All the negative comments here seem to be from people who haven't even tried one, which is like reviewing a book before you read it - everyone who has played through one of these amps seems to agree that they are great and I can only agree. I don't agree that it's a starter head - if you love the sound and features why would you want to change it? However if you need more eq and features try this instead -

[quote name='Protium' post='298613' date='Oct 3 2008, 02:48 PM']As far as I can see the Hartke essentially has just one setting. Don't get me started on the EQ options [/quote] You are absolutely right there - these LH amps only have one basic sound and it's clean and fat with no overdrive facility. The sound is always there however you set the eq, if you don't like the basic sound then these amps are not for you. Most amps I've tried are the same in this respect, with just one basic sound - I don't think the character of the sound changes on an LM11 when you turn the gain up or down unless you turn it up too far in which case it sounds horrible. Those amps like the Ashdown that allow you to alter the amount of valve grind would be better for anyone needing that feature, or they could use a distortion pedal. Guitar amps need the input gain because most guitarists want distortion at some time or another, while bass players are not generally looking for that effect. As for the eq - it is very simple and effective, but doesn't allow fine adjustments in the way that a graphic eq does. For the full bells and whistles experience, look at the new Hartke Kilo which has more valves, input gain, overdrive, graphic eq etc. 1000 watts and still only £520 it should be capable of just about anything - still spells brite wrong though! Also might weigh a bit more than an LM11.

I can only say that the Hartke LH amps do NOT NEED an input gain. If worries about SNR are stopping you buy one, then you are mistaken - there is no problem and if you do experience any unwanted background noise the problem is more likely with your instrument. The sound is very clean and rich in tone with plenty of headroom and as good or better SNR than many amps with or without input gains. Turning the volume control up, simply increases the volume! If the spelling of brite is the worst feature, then these amps more than make up for that in sound quality which is both hi fi and gutsy - try one before judging is my advice and if you'd still rather spend double on a lightweight digital amp with an input gain, fine - it's your money.

[quote name='Rasta' post='294194' date='Sep 28 2008, 09:43 PM']Niceness, just been checking their website-looks very interesting! What do you reckon to your Big deep one? Did you get the hartke head in the end mate?[/quote] I haven't got the big deep one, I just use the same Eminence 3015LF driver in my old trace cab. It's a good speaker for reggae because it goes low without distorting and I hope to buy an ultra lightweight cab to house it one of these days. I tried a lot of single 12" and 2 x 10" cabs and none came close to the sound of this single 15 for depth and warmth. I got the Hartke LH1000 but sent it back after 2 days - it's a great amp but I just couldn't get 'my' sound - see this thread for details - [url="http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28129"]http://basschat.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=28129[/url] What I realised after trying loads of new amps and speakers, is that I've already got the sound I love and that tone is very subjective. Your Eden isn't too heavy and you like the sound, so match it with a lighter cab and you're sorted and don't discount 15s, the 3015LF is super light and really does the business. I think it would sound good in any resonably designed cab. I've also tried the markbass jeff berlin combo you mentioned and that has an excellent reggae sound, (much better than the 2 x 10 or 1 x 12 combo for me) but the price put me off. Another good combo for reggae is the Line 6 350 watt lowdown, but that is one heavy mutha! There's a Bergantino HT115 for sale on this forum which I have tried and I can recommend that too, it goes very low and phat, but it's not ultra lightweight and not as smooth as the 3015LF to my ears, although you might prefer it's rich growly tone. The nice thing is that there's lots of choice out there and I definately recommend you try before you buy. irie ites.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='294060' date='Sep 28 2008, 06:32 PM']I'd have thought for your sound you'd have wanted 10,0,0! Have you tried getting your sound on the bass by using a much bigger capacitor on the passive tone knob? I tried an LH500 yesterday at the Bash and was very impressed - fantastic tone for the money and plenty loud. Love the super simple control layout too. Alex[/quote] I did use it with the setting you suggested and it was a wicked sound, but there's juice too much growl and richness for me. It's hard to describe the tone I want, I think it's one without richness of overtones or harmonics - quite a flat boring sound to most ears - think of mains hum! The sound from the bass is fine when I play it through the Trace or a studio desk and monitors. The Hartke seems to add a juicy fatness which is not for me, although I was certainly very impressed and would recommend it to any 'normal' player. Sorry to sound so vague - tone is such a subjective thing.

I recommend you sell the EA combo and use your Eden amp with a new 15" lightweight cab from barefacedbass.com. I use the same driver as the one in the Big Deep One and it goes very low at high volume and is amazingly light.

[quote name='alexclaber' post='293611' date='Sep 27 2008, 09:20 PM']What were your EQ settings on the LH1000? Alex[/quote] I tried it with every possible eq setting and found my favourite sound with bass - 7, mid - 3, treble - 2.

[quote name='warwickhunt' post='293304' date='Sep 27 2008, 09:30 AM']Just to help inform the masses... what bass and cabs did you use it with?[/quote] For the masses only - I used a 1960s Fender fretted jazz bass with flatwound strings and a new Ashbory fretless active bass with silicone rubber strings. I used 2 cabs both separately and together - an old Trace Elliot combo cab containing an Eminence 3015LF 15" driver and a Bergantino HTII5 with 15" driver. I'm sure most people would prefer the sound of the berg which accented the full rich tone of the amp with a strong throaty boing. I prefered the Trace for it's softer, warmer tone and both together was killa with the very useful feature of being able to adjust the amount of power going to each speaker separately. I don't think many amps let you do that, but because this is really 2 amps in 1 box it means you are not playing pot luck when combining different cabs with unmatched efficiencies. But like I said I'm far from typical in my taste for bass tone and I would not hesitate in recommending this amp for the majority of players in any style.

Here's my review, please bear in mind I only play reggae, I am very fussy about tone and this is only my opinion - It's [u]very[/u] loud, basically 2 x 500 watt amps that can be bridged to 750 watts @ 8 ohms or 1100 @ 4 ohms. That's a lot of power and if you don't need it, the LH 500 will still have plenty of oomph with 350 watts @ 8 ohms. Build quality seems good, everything works as expected, it is very heavy compared to a lot of new amps. The sound is very rich and full bodied with a valvey growl, but clear and modern with no distortion. It is surprisingly hi fi sounding to my ears with plenty of tone from deep bass to high treble if required. There is no need to touch the eq for a sound which I imagine would suit many players with varied styles. I have only used it at home, but get the feeling it would really cut through on stage with a strong presence - the sort of amp you could fall in love with. Having said all that, I have returned it to the shop, who kindly let me have it on 7 day approval. While I'm sure it would suit many players, it didn't have 'my' sound which is super smooth, deep, warm and soft just like me. I really wanted to love the LH1000 and in a way I do, it's just got too much tone for me - ah well........

I took delivery of one today and it seems very good so far but I've not had much time with it yet. I'll report back in a coupla days.

Why change it if you're happy with what you've got - you could try lots of things and not get the sound you're already happy with. I tried the 300w line 6 combo and loved the modelled ampeg sound, I would have bought it if I could lift it and it was a bit louder. Also think what you can do with a grand..........

[quote name='david_l_perry' post='277819' date='Sep 5 2008, 01:56 PM']What they have given instead of a pre amp is two input sockets, active/passive. If your bass is a very high output active bass, then it may still clip the input stage. My status is 18v active (as most actives are these days) and I much prefer to be able to dial in the correct preamp level than rely upon a preset pad level. I would suggest this is all the more important with a valve pre amp, as a little more gain on the pre will change the tone To be honest I have not owned a bass amp without a fully adjustable input level for decades.[/quote] Why would they produce an amp that couldn't cope with the majority of modern active basses without having to turn the volume down on the instrument? I've used amps with and without pre amp gain and not noticed any difference in tone unless it was too high and induced distortion. I think the LH1000/500 are designed for a clean sound and not suitable for overdriven valve distortion which is ok by me. I have 2 basses - an old passive fender jazz and a new active ashbory. The input sensitivity on the LH1000/500 is as follows - Passive Input 100 k Ohms, 20 mv. Active Input 100 k Ohms, 60 mv. Hopefully those inputs would work well with each of my basses - please correct me if I'm wrong. There are a number of demos on the Hartke myspace page which might be of interest - [url="http://www.myspace.com/hartkesystems"]http://www.myspace.com/hartkesystems[/url]

[quote name='david_l_perry' post='277655' date='Sep 5 2008, 10:42 AM']No pre amp gain.....that would rule it out for me[/quote] Why ? Is it really necessary and what are the downsides of not having it? Hartke seem to have gone back to basics with these new amps, not following the trend towards light weight digital technology. Are they well built or not is the question and is the simple design likely to be reliable or not - I suppose the only way to find out is to buy one and see how it fairs unless anyone here knows already? Hartke offer a 3 year extended warranty which seems reasonable and they may be easier to service or repair than some other amp types. £369 for the LH1000 is very good value if it delivers sound and build quality wise.