White Cloud

Zappa was a modern day genius; innovative, experimental, fearless and ground breaking. That is what music is actually all about. Been a fan for 35 years and have ALWAYS been hugely impressed by the complexity of the music.

Looks extremely promising!

Look forward to seeing the end product. Great bass!

I have owned two Ricks (at different times) and absolutely loved everything about them...they both sounded fantastic. I wouldn't have dreamt of swapping either for a P or J ...horses for courses.

[quote name='RoRi' timestamp='1384017653' post='2271991'] [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3mbQdXBSxpw[/media] [/quote] Love this...I remember watching it when it was originally aired.

Jimmy Moon in Glasgow will make you one no problem. Superb luthier...and fast.

[quote name='visog' timestamp='1383949727' post='2271294'] +1... agree with the sentiment but I think Jaco's breakthrough year was '76 and this is '78. Masques is a favourite of mine too... [/quote] My mistake, but consider this...it makes Percy's playing all the more impressive. A fretless player that can sound so unlike Jaco in the slip stream of his blaze of glory.is quite a feat.

[quote name='Lowender' timestamp='1383969921' post='2271444'] She's fine. But what is she doing that everyone else in a decent cover band isn't doing? Answer: Looking good doing it. [/quote] Pardon me, but I like to think that I look good doing it too! I enjoyed it - it was well worth sharing...ignore the naysayers.

[quote name='philw' timestamp='1383942176' post='2271181'] Percy is the main reason I play bass. I got to Brand X via Genesis (Brand X was Phil Collins' entertainment during Genesis down-time) and I was so blown away by Percy's playing I decided there and then I was going to learn to play bass. That was maybe 1980. I had a Wal by 1983. White Cloud is spot on: the Masques album is brilliant, and it's peppered with the most innovative, unique, and sublime fretless playing. It's required listening I'd say for anybody who wants to play fretless. P [/quote] Sir...I like the cut of your jib!

Sorry to hear about this. This can potentially happen to any bass with a wooden neck. Same happened to my very expensive Jaydee back in the day. Unfortunately you have been extremely unlucky. For what it's worth I also owned a Lakland skyline that developed a very nasty neck crack.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1383921027' post='2270845'] Without wishing to change your mind on opting for a wooden neck , my two pence worth would be that , yes, a graphite neck sounds different, not least of all because of the hard and extremely reflective graphite fingerboard, but whereas that can sound slightly harsh and hypercritical in terms of technique when you are playing on your own , that perceived harshness all but dissappears when you are playing in a band context , and instead translates into some welcome extra cut in the mix. Fretless basses sound much more muted than fretted ones where a big part of the tone comes from a steel string being in contact with a steel fret. Once you remove the steel fret the tone and envelope of the same note is very, very different . The extended upper frequencies that a graphite neck can provide can to some extent be seen as a positive substitute for the change of tone made by removing the frets. It's a similar trade-off on fretless basses that have an epoxy coating on the fingerboard. You lose some woody warmth , but gain a lot of sustain , clarity and top end . It also has to be said ,that woody warmth can very easily become an over-softness on a fretless bass , hence why so many fretless players boost their midrange frequencies to make themselves more clearly heard . As with fretted basses , I would recommend players who buy a graphite necked bass embrace the tone for what it is rather than try and compare it to a bass with a conventional wooden neck . Graphite is a terriffic sound in its' own right , and a great option if you want your bass to be clearly audible . [/quote] I would say that this is sound advice.

[quote name='ambient' timestamp='1383911637' post='2270673'] I know a lot has to do with electronics, but listen to Michael Manring and Steve Lawson, then listen to Pino or whoever, you can hear a difference in the sound, I don't have a carbon fibre/graphite necked fretless but I do have a fretted, and it does have a sound of its own. [/quote] I agree. I played carbon fibre necks throughout the 80's and they do sound distinctly different from wooden ones. Regarding the OP's original question...it is hard to define whether they are "better" or not as it is entirely subjective. The advantages are a stable, stiff neck that wont move...but adding one will change the sound of the instrument.

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1383909073' post='2270614'] [color=#000000][font=sans-serif]Psychotics are consistently inconsistent. The essence of sanity is to be inconsistently inconsistent.[/font][/color] [/quote] Very true! Your display of sanity is reassuring in this instance

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1383834804' post='2269766'] Yeah, oak is a lovely wood, very sturdy. I just hope it turns out the way I hope. I'm just thinking about the JPJ pickup config, I was hoping to get a set from emg with all the solderless bumph, but emailed them and they won't do it! Very helpful! [/quote] Just remember not to machine against the grain on the Oak or it may tear out...particularly when routing!

Some here will claim it wont change it at all...however the reality is that it will certainly change the tone. How much? Hard to say...the proof will be in the pudding.

Here is a great example of Percy Jones. It saddens me that a British bassist recorded this before Jaco's breakthrough on the Weather Report album "Heavy Weather" - yet went almost unnoticed. Its maybe a reasonable assumption that if Jaco had recorded this it would have been lauded as earth shattering. I think Percy is totally underrated and almost ignored by the main stream bass press in the UK. http://youtu.be/ZQYkBwfzHAc

[quote name='Happy Jack' timestamp='1383907204' post='2270575'] Not looking to start a fight about this, but my experience of graphite necks is that they sound like ... erm ... bass necks. I have Fender Precisions hanging next to a Status Artist GP and when you play them back to back there's no obvious change in tone. Not to my tired old ears anyway. The attractions are that they have a noticeably more punchy sound (especially on a Precision) and they never, ever move so you don't need to adjust your set-up as the seasons change. [/quote] Also without wishing to start a fight - you have contradicted yourself here. No have stated that you cannot here any obvious change in tone...but then assert that it provides a noticeably punchier sound! The extra punch is a change in the tone! IME with graphite necks they sound quite different from wood necks. It always surprises me when players on this forum assert that the material that a bass is made from does not influence the sound. That is illogical...but that's just my tuppence worth.

[quote name='Lord Sausage' timestamp='1383811441' post='2269286'] Today i was told by a wet behind the ears assistant MD (that's assistant to the MD) that fretless is no good in rocking songs. It's ok if you put chorus on it in chilled out tunes but not in rock. I've been playing as long as this guy has been alive. The guitarist left the room as he thought i was going to go nuclear. i had to bite my tongue as i didn't know if it had come from the MD. It hadn't. He even told the guitarist to try putting some pick scrapes into is playing. The guitar player has been the player for every big version of this show in th UK for 11 yrs. I think this kid thinks he is co MD not assistant to. Today should be interesting! Am i wrong? Am i being precious? or is it a naive, ill informed basic cliched thought? [/quote] Music is art...there are no rules.

[quote name='JazzBassfreak' timestamp='1383690363' post='2267844'] Thanks man, I've found some mahogany too, glued it all up today. It's a 3 piece neck mahogany being in the middle. I'm hoping you're right about the oak, I've heard bad things, but then a lot of positive things too. So to be honest i don't really know what to think /: either way with a JPJ config of EMGs it should sound killer ! [/quote] Well, I heard horror stories about Oak in guitar building...but also heard Chestnut being championed by the same people. As a furniture maker I knew that Oak & Chestnut are virtually identical...so I figured "whats the beef?" and went for it. I was spurred on when I saw a beautiful 1970's Alembic series 1 with Oak facings. My advice...go for it.

My all time favourite British bassist, the great Welsh fretless genius Percy Jones. Ground breaking, innovative, unique...even Jaco was blown away when he overheard Percy practicing! A word to the wise - seek the Brand X album "Masques" ...so many great examples of Percy playing his Wal fretless..."The ghost of mayfield lodge" in particular....

My first build (fretless bass) was a merranti core with oak front & rear facings...both unfashionable woods in guitar building terms.....it sounds Awesome. Good luck with the build...it will be a journey and the learning process will be priceless.

[quote name='XB26354' timestamp='1383601091' post='2266539'] Counterparts is a good album. They should remember what songs sound like. I've been distinctly underwhelmed by their recent output, and having bought every album on release since Exit... Stage Left I gave up after Snakes and Arrows, which has one decent song but is otherwise dull (I put it in occasionally and get bored after 1 or two songs, which never happens to me on the previous 20-odd releases). I didn't even bother with the last album. It's a shame because they have been one of the most interesting and varied bands in my lifetime, consistently good and even the weaker songs have good playing and some ideas of merit. It almost feels like they've run out of ideas. Alex Lifeson's layered guitar approach since Vapor Trails doesn't work for me and makes for tiring listening. And am I the only one that wishes Geddy would ditch the Jazz and play something more interesting? The Rick, Steinberger and Wal were such distinctive basses. Ironically though, I think the Jazz worked really well on Counterparts, so maybe it is the wall of guitars. Geddy commented that Alex is an exceptional chordal and arpeggio player and a lot of their song ideas sound like they come from his riffs. I think the layering, and the fact that they take months to make an album, has taken some of their spark and spontaneity away. [/quote] My sentiments exactly....totally agree with all points made here.

[quote name='molan' timestamp='1383446813' post='2264605'] First gig with my new band tonight and I'd been going round in circles a bit on what to use. A Celinder J Update got me the gig so that was a possible. I've also been playing my '63J quite a lot and, at the other end of the scale, a very cool 'stealth black' Sei headless 4 has had a lot of use recently because it's just stupidly easy to play. My 'big gig rig' of Aguilar DB750 and DB410 kinda fitted the bill for a rock gig In a fairly large venue and I had an option of my favourite lightweight Aggie SL112's or a MarkBass Mini CMD112P plus extension cab that I've been rehearsing with. In the end I decided to take out a 33.3" Ritter Cora, an Aguilar Tone Hammer 500 and a Bergantino AE210. The, totally vain, reason for choosing the Ritter was because we had agreed on stage clothes and I knew the Ritter would match my 'outfit', lol. Plus, of course, I knew it would sound good and the shorter scale makes it nice to play. The TH500 is very much reference head. It doesn't have the depth of the DB750 but it comes close and it's so much easier to lug around. The Berg AE210 was the hardest choice. I'd kinda fallen out of love with it recently but the size, weight, tone combination seemed right for this gig. I was pretty happy with what I was hearing on stage but was even happier at the end of the gig. Turned out there was serious live sound engineer in the audience plus a very good guitarist who used to play with our singer. The live sound guy came up to talk to me after the gig and said couldn't believe the depth of bass coming from the little Berg cab and was amazed to hear that there was virtually no bass in the FOH. The guitarist then really quizzed me about the bass and rig because he said it sounded 'just right' in the live mix. Plenty of depth with lots of clarity and note definition (which worried me because I know I hit a few bum notes, lol). He claimed it was different league to his regular bass player in terms of pure tone and that he'd try to find a way to get his guy to think about some new gear. Both of them commented on how cool the Ritter looked too - they said they'd not seen anything quite like it before It's nice when a plan comes together. . . [/quote] As a player that doesn't get excited about gear or technicalities most of your text is absolute gobbledegook to me. ...but I'm glad you got the result you wanted!

This subject is entirely subjective...............