White Cloud

[quote name='CamdenRob' timestamp='1392995362' post='2375085'] I do like to try new stuff... Anyone else a prolific gear swapper? [/quote] Are you serious? This is basschat......

One of the truly great pop hit bass lines. I used to play this live too....great bass lines require [i]practice[/i]. Start slow, get it right and gradually [i]build [/i]up the speed.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1393004853' post='2375221'] How do I set the volume on my amp playing live? Loud. Very loud. You need to be loud because everybody else has a vested interest in stopping the bass player from being heard, and what's the point of spending all that time learning to play if people can't hear you? If I had wanted to be a f***ing mime artist I would have moved to France and painted my face white a long time ago. Loud is better, because loud is...louder. Make it louder and stick it to The Man. [/quote] Hell yes...this!

[quote name='lee4' timestamp='1392930191' post='2374460'] IMO,as we play [i]electric [/i]instruments,body and neck timbers make little or no difference to the tone we hear,as it is created by magnets,wire and electricity. [/quote] Contentious, but interesting, opinion.

[quote name='TimR' timestamp='1392928985' post='2374436'] Isn't the placebo effect where [u]a player[/u] is given a cheap Chinese copy and told it's a '63 Fender and plays better with it because [u]he [/u]believes it's a real Fender. [/quote] Or she! Careful, there are lots of great female players here. Well, never mind chinese fare...some consider MIM Fenders to be cheap copies when compared to the golden oldies

Awesome. This thread (despite being based on a great original post) has veered uncontrollably into a rarefied, mega interesting territory

Placebo in bass guitars? Well, I always say that so many people are playing Fenders these days because so many people are playing Fenders...who are being watched by future Fender players..

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392831946' post='2373266'] Yes, I suppose anything will become "vintage" with the passing of time, but some people fail to grasp that, as with wines, there are good vintages and bad vintages. A lot ( not all) of the mid to late '70's Fenders were the very reason why the older ones became highly sought after in the first place. I love Fender basses and enjoy playing good ones a great deal , but, unpopular view as it may be with some folks, I find the new ones Fender make today to be as good as any I have ever played. Call me a peasant if you like, but to me , once you strip away the bullshit, in the scheme of things the Fendera relatively simple bass. That is its' great strength and the real secret to its' enduring popularity. There was nothing particularly magical in the way they were manufactured in the past, and there is no real reason why the ones from today can't be just as good. "What has any of this got to do with Geezer Butler?" I hear you ask. " Plenty!" is my answer. When it comes to basses, Geezer is on record in the post-Millenium era as saying that he wanted to get back to playing Fenders , but that their inconsistencies and downright unreliability put him off, until he discovered Lakland basses on a visit to the Bass Centre at Wapping, and he realised they could offer the sound a feel of his vintage Fenders but with all the benefits and advantages of modern high precision manufacturing and expert craftsmanship. He has stuck with Lakland for over ten years as his main touring basses, and this year they have finally unveiled the new Geezer Butler Signature model. The only available prototype is for sale at a shop in Chicago: [url="http://www.bassclubchicago.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=LLUS4460GEEZERNAMM"]http://www.bassclubc...S4460GEEZERNAMM[/url] Seems like Sabbath Inc. have denied Geezer and Lakland permission to use the devil inlay. Oh well... These basses will feature the new Geezer signature EMG pickups: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DcKRho-h2_c [/quote] Another great post Dingus!

[quote name='The fasting showman' timestamp='1392830612' post='2373248'] I wonder if Mr White Cloud above was living in Stafford when Ozzy was getting his solo stuff together with Bob Daisley down the road in Eccleshall? [/quote] No, afraid not. I left Stafford in 1974.

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1392752775' post='2372391'] Problem found and solved. Now I just need to solve the other problem of the arm etc. Its a pain how it makes you tired.... off to bed now to rest again with only Mrs G for company.... [/quote] That is progress. An alternative way of looking at this is that the pain that you are feeling is actually the signal that [i]your body[/i] is sending you as[i] it carries out the healing process[/i]. A marvelous piece of biological design is the human body! [i]Sleep[/i] is often the[i] best form of medicine............ [/i]

[quote name='Paul S' timestamp='1392543128' post='2369764'] I'd imagine an Ibanez SR300 will weigh less - probably substantially so - than any Squier VM Jazz model, even the lightest ones. [/quote] You'd be right. Ibanez SR's, whilst being a variation on the same theme, benefit from a highly evolved design...and are more tactile and substantially lighter than traditional designs like the Squier.

[quote name='The fasting showman' timestamp='1392735132' post='2372118'] I think you are right Sir, no matter what a deluded poseur I was in the mid '90s you can't ever forget first hearing Master of Reality can you? 'Into the void' and all... In the Midlands (I live in Ye Merrie olde Lichfield, but have lived in Brum on and off) there's so many links to people who knew Sabbath either at School or via families and the massive factories, IMI for instance, in the Witton/ Aston area. Lots of ex-pat Brummies here in the sticks. I was in a band with a bloke who's uncle had road managed them way back when. I'm sure lots of people could say the same thing. I believe (could be wrong) that Sabbath's first gig as Black Sabbath was in a now long gone pub in Lichfield. Others will know for sure. [/quote] Master of reality was immense. Incidentally, having been born in Stafford I myself am a midlands boy. Its a pity that Brum has hit the headlines lately regarding TV's "Benefit street". I'm certain that the members of BS knew similar hardships...

[quote name='The fasting showman' timestamp='1392733191' post='2372089'] I wish I'd valued seeing these people more back then, daft really. Martin [/quote] Martin, having read your words I would say that you valued it more than [i]you realised[/i] at the time....

[quote name='Grangur' timestamp='1392730990' post='2372036'] Am I strange? (OK, yes, I know) Am I the only person who has problems like this? Should I give us bass? Does anyone have some ideas as to what I'm doing wrong [/quote] Sorry to read about this. A. No, you are not strange...but you are unique, as are we all. B. Giving up bass would be a permanent solution to a temporary problem. C. You might have aggravated a nerve/muscle.tendon...I caused my self a similar injury last May playing a Gibson Thunderbird (long neck/required arm stretch...ouch!). Let it settle down and see your Osteo. Everything will be okay in the end dude.

[quote name='The fasting showman' timestamp='1392732312' post='2372074'] Back to Sabbath, I recorded in DEP studios in Brum back in '97 and Mr Iommi was recording there at the time. I vividly remember a very flashy Jaydee style / SG with a headstock like a Supernatural on a stand in one of the rooms. Very imposing. [/quote] Yes, we have digressed somewhat. That must have been an intimidating experience...Iommi, in the context of rock history, is at the top of the food chain (with others of course).

[quote name='flyfisher' timestamp='1392731282' post='2372045'] There has been some intruiging research in this area that suggests we don't have free will. Basically, monitoring the brain when someone is asked to do something like move a finger and the activity involved in moving the hand has been measured to happen BEFORE the subject DECIDES to move it. It's a controversial area, but quite fascinating. [url="http://io9.com/5975778/scientific-evidence-that-you-probably-dont-have-free-will"]http://io9.com/59757...-have-free-will[/url] (and other stuff if you search for it) [/quote] It is fascinating...but this phenomenon is already well [i]known [/i]and [i]utilised [/i]in hypnotherapy..and has been for well over 100 years.

[quote name='Colonel36' timestamp='1392730446' post='2372024'] Anyone remember the experiment on telly where they gave a bunch of students a few tests to do and then they gave them coffee and were told that it was full of caffeine. They all got "buzzed up" and got on with the tests and when they were asked about it they said they were as high as kites and performed better, except................... there was no caffeine It was all in their minds. [/quote] People are incredibly [i]open to influence[/i] and are literally functioning on a day to day basis whilst in varying degree's of [i]trance[/i].

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392724104' post='2371925'] I suppose every age is modern to those people living in it, and people of our age group will always regard the 1980's as the decade which defined what is modern because it was an era in which people were [u] absolutely and completely obsessed[/u] with modernity. In cultural terms, everything which had gone before was summarily dismissed as irrelevant, outmoded and worthy of distain, and everybody joined in with that ethos. To say that you liked or enjoyed things of the era which had immediately proceeded the 1980's was to invite scorn and ridicule upon yourself. Everything had to have short hair, narrow collars and be "designer" in some way or other. By contrast , the last twenty years of popular culture have been equally as obsessed with nostalgia and a retrospective longing for the past . Both these respective cultural trends were reflected in the kind of instruments bass players aspired to at the given time. [/quote] This is an excellent post.

[quote name='GreeneKing' timestamp='1392729661' post='2372006'] I think the whole point is that the body can influence the mind and the mind can then influence the body. But this path isn't without influence Peter [/quote] True. The human being is a biological cybernetic system....body & mind. The unconscious mind is generally in control and benevolent...but is open to influence in a way that is staggering. It accepts suggestion very literally!

[quote name='The fasting showman' timestamp='1392716231' post='2371821'] I think starting bass playing back in the '80s has forever altered my perspective on '70s Fenders, much as I like them they will always be a £300 instrument to me. Also I'm always more attracted to EBMM 'Rays due to the impact they made on me as a kid when they burst onto the market around '87 with their boiled sweet finishes. [/quote] I totally agree....I just cannot get excited over Fenders for the same reason...ever. The 80's were such a special time for me. On reflection so many boundary's were being smashed in all aspects of traditional British life. The youth of today have no concept of the massive impact that Colour TV, Video players, cremola foam and micro wave ovens had. I still have a laugh when I remember my Fathers disgust when seeing Boy George singing "Karma chameleon" lol. Musically this emerging technology was weaved into a willingness to push the envelope to new heights....just think of Yes breaking their prog shackles and releasing "90125" & "Big Generator", and Geddy Lee brandishing Steinberger & Wal basses and tearing it up on "Power Windows". Odd that here we are 30 years later ...and everyone wants to play mass produced 1960's passive basses.

[quote name='Dingus' timestamp='1392670287' post='2371497'] Yes, quite. I can't really tell if it is because I have become more blase` about the whole thing , but guitar shops are nowhere near as alluring a proposition as they once were. The depressing uniformity of both the stock and the establishments themselves bears little or no relation to the tantalising excitement of going to guitar shops in my youth. One long-gone little independent shop where I lived when I was growing up regularly had basses from JayDee, Ashley Pangbourne , Overwater, Vigier ect, as did its' competitor on the other side of the town centre, and both shops had staff who were bass players and were as enthusiastic about basses as you were. It was a thrill just to see those kind of basses in the flesh, even if I couldn't afford to buy one at that time, kind of like looking at sculptures in an art gallery. Even if you don't have one at home, you could enjoy the beauty and experience some joy from that. [/quote] I can totally relate to this observation as I had almost the same experiences. As has already been asserted already in this thread it seems that the current generation of cool young players find individuality and innovation uncool....that is not cool (from my uncool perspective).

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1392671690' post='2371524'] You are welcome to drop in any time you are in the area. After the London show there will be instruments to try out. [/quote] Thanks Alan...that was my next question!

[quote name='skelf' timestamp='1392665714' post='2371380'] I am very familiar with the Wal pre-amp which I think is great. So in re focusing my own agenda it leans more in the direction of the Wal. [/quote] Which is why I want one in my life My pal has a 1970's Alembic series 1 - but for me the Wal pre is so much simpler (and sounds every bit as good).