drTStingray

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1480028183' post='3181215'] I had this problem some years ago on my 2 band eq Ray and this totally solved it. There was a thread on here about it. It's easily done. [/quote] I don't doubt you and others are 100% sure about this. However I have flat pick up pole Stingrays with which too scooped an EQ can produce the same issue exactly - btw on a 2 band full on tone controls = SCOOPED SOUND - on a 3 band less so because of the mid range EQ (presuming you max it). Couple that with a naturally scooped rig and you can easily create the problem with any bass with dynamic sound (eg a Jazz). The only one you'll probably be ok with is a P bass because people like to scoop the sound of those and they don't have vast dynamic range anyway. So I don't buy the idea that moving the pole pieces helps particularly - the whole point is they follow the fretboard radius so keeping all strings relatively similar distance from the strings - always provided people haven't done a poor set up job with their saddles or pick up height. I've seen some horror stories there as well!!! I'd like to hear comparative sound samples? Anybody done one pre and post moving pole pieces?

Ha ha sounds great and well done. I picked my new one up about three weeks ago and still play it two or three times a day such is the allure! I have a Stingray 5 with the same electronics package and it truly is a great bass for all genres - the slap sound is just fabulous so you're in for a real treat there! I guess the six months shows just how busy they are.

[quote name='40hz' timestamp='1479988369' post='3180793'] For me the problem isn't recording the bass, indeed it records very well. It's in a live situation the problem surfaces. Played a Halloween gig recently and the G was just non-existant. The same thing rears it head with multiple amps as well. I set my eq flat (bar a smidge of bass boost) with my TC Bh550. As I said though, I can bring it back a bit by pulling back on the bass on the 2 band preamp and using the Spectracomp toneprint. [/quote] I find a TC is too scooped - myself and some mates attend a jam with one of these as the supplied bass kit - it also chokes the top end (on Jazz, Ray, Sabre even on a Warwick Streamer Jazzman). I think it is a facet of some amps. It is the same with guitar amps - comparing Vox AC 15 with Fender Deluxe Reverb - the Vox has lower power (15 v 22w) but the Fender is scooped so sounds quieter! Turning to walking bass lines, I find you have to be very careful where you play these on any bass dependent on how busy the keyboard and guitar players are in that sonic area. Note Dave Swift plays in upper octaves sometimes to avoid Jools Holland's left hand piano. I used my Fretless Ray for many years in a Rockabilly band playing walking lines most of the time - they were fine on all strings until about the 12 th fret or so when they really did appear to drop out on the G and D (not on video recordings though - you could clearly hear my duff intonation high up on the fretboard at times!!). Fender twin v Vox article for those interested. https://reverb.com/news/vox-ac15-vs-fender-deluxe-reverb?utm_campaign=5a1550ab27-rn161113_content_uk&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5889ed6702-5a1550ab27-58834077

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1479952099' post='3180593'] All these responses are subjective. It depends on how, when and where your using it.And whether you like it. Things like what year it was made make little to no difference. I assume when you guys are commenting on the sound of a bass your talking straight bass to amp , no eq. Blue [/quote] The bridge with mutes ceased around 94 with a transition without mutes but the larger bridge in 95. The shorter bridge started 96. The highly figured necks (only an aesthetic issue but the figured ones are very cool) are much more prolific from 1987 ish to the mid 90s though I've seen some from the later 90s. Apart from the Classic series of Stingrays and some limited editions the highly figured necks are very rare on standard Musicman basses since around 2000. Functionally a late 90s bass will be similar to any standard 4H Stingray produced since then with the exception of the compensated nut (introduced around 2005 I think). The 2 and 3 band EQs have been available throughout. Most people bought 3 bands in the 90s and probably 00s. Some cooler (in some people's view) colours like peach and blueburst had gone by then but periodically replaced with a host of others including sparkles and various trans colours (including one nicknamed puke yellow - which didn't last long - real name trans green). colours white, black, natural and vintage sunburst have always been available and still are - other classic colours like teal and trans red disappeared a few years ago. Everyone knows body wood makes no difference to sound - yeah right!!!! Trans red Stingrays up to mid 2000s? were always alder bodied - the solid colours in the 90s poplar and blueburst either poplar or alder. The rest are ash. Some of us nurds think the non ash versions sound slightly mellower - as do basses with rosewood fretboards. Blue is right much of this is subjective - a lot is aesthetics. They're pretty well consistent throughout in terms of sound, playability and functionality.

You're back to the point I was making, Pete. I've never heard a recording of this effect and despite asking people who've posted on forums to post sound samples they never seem to do so. I don't doubt that some people perceive this to be an issue, and there again there are other people who are unable for some reason to dial treble and clankiness out. But for one person who has these issues I can find ten who don't. All of the methods for dealing with this have been mentioned in this thread and most of it is down to set up, EQ choice and playing style - or dare I say it, possibly amps/speakers. Now here's an interesting point - the band I play in played at a gig earlier this week with provided back line, PA and drum kit - I used my Old Smoothie (76 Stingray revisited) - the amp used for bass was a reasonable sized combo made by a manufacturer with a name beginning with F. This combo had so scooped a sound that even with the mid range turned right up on it, the pop and slap sound was thin and lifeless - as were high double stops and the like. I have had similar problems with a smaller version of the same combo - nice fundamental but virtually nothing else. It is not the bass!! That sounds great through my set up. For those of the 'let's get the pole pieces flat to the pick up' persuasion, the Old Smoothie has exactly this - in fact slightly lower than the surrounding pick up - they're also elongated. So is this problem down to people using amps that are fundamentally scooped? No doubt the ones I used would be fine with a Precision and are probably designed to work with one, but talk about choking the life out of an instrument!!

That's very nice!! They have some very nice basses in there currently - a Custom Shop P bass in trans blond/white and also a Musicman PJ I think caught my eye - though I was picking up my new bass so didn't try them!!

Me too - the track Sorceress is fabulous - that Alembic bass sound is wonderful - it's also pretty rocky although the bass is pretty much funk. My daughter bought me tickets to see Jeff Lorber a few years back at Pizza Express - and how fabulous!! This starts from quiet beginnings but is great - how they play the unison stuff towards the end I don't know!! Nice Fender Jazz. http://youtu.be/TcmZJgWTKkg

Some accurate Stingray 4HH measurements, which can be added if you wish - they are imperial - remember these are US built/designed basses and all measurements tend to be imperial. Front edge of bridge to centre of fret 12 = 17" Centre of saddles to centre of fret 12 = 17 and 3/8" (G) to 17 1/2" (E) Centre of G saddle to centre of bridge pole, bridge pick up = 2" Centre of G saddle to centre of neck pole, bridge pick up = 2 and 7/8" Centre of neck pole, bridge pick up to centre of bridge pole, neck pick up = 2 and 5/8" Centre of bridge pole, neck pick up to centre of neck pole, neck pick up = 7/8" Just to add to the mix, my Classic Sabre does an extremely good impression of a good P bass with the inside single coil of the neck pick up selected (and probably front pick up of a Jazz) - I'm pretty sure it's been designed to sound like this. It's neck pick up does have 16 coils (set in two rows of eight) - the humbuckers are slightly different from a Stingray - with covered pole pieces, a silent circuit, and appear slightly smaller - still does a great Stingray sound with bridge H. To add to the mix, it uniquely has a mahogany body in combination with a roasted maple neck.

A question of personal taste I guess. I personally prefer the stuff more directly influenced by R and B and find rock rythmns a bit tepid at times. I had the likes of Billy Cobham, Steve Gadd, Buddy Rich as some of my favourite drummers along with John Bonham, Phil Collins etc from the rock angle. I really think it is just a matter of personal taste.

I had a very interesting experience in the late 70s at a Herbie Hancock concert - he played two sets separated by an interval - he announced the first as jazz and the second as jazz funk. I recall being one of about 100 people present in the 1500 seater theatre in the first set - and it was full in the second - apparently the bar was completely packed during the first half!! I concluded jazz lacked one major thing which jazz funk had - an audience!! I also recall the second set was far more dynamic with just as impressive solos and the like, but with some pretty intricate groove playing. I think even Cantaloupe Island was in the second set - though I can't clearly remember that. How do you guys who think jazz funk wrecks jazz rate The Crusaders - I saw them probably three times in the 70s - they were extremely R and B and jazz all at once. I always thought jazz rock was a bit of a white man's genre - I seem to recall this from Jeff Beck, Jack Bruce and Hatfield and the North concerts in the 70s - both the audiences and the players. I would have said Brand X was more jazz rock than jazz funk though clearly R and B influenced also - similarly Return to Forever and Weather Report though the latter draw on all sorts of worldwide influences. Or are we talking 60s crossover like Soft Machine and Blood Sweat and Tears?

[quote name='biro' timestamp='1479667770' post='3178307'] Actually, I don't think this is quite true. I have a Stingray 5HH—yes, I understand you said that the HS does the Jazz thing best—and It sounds miles away from a Jazz to be honest. Technically speaking, the HH should be capable of pulling out the same tone of the HS when using the inner coils. To my ears that does not, in any manner whatsoever, resemble a Jazz-type tone. The same applies to the use of the outer coils. Granted, I am not speaking about the possibility of using the individual coils soloed, but still, I think it's pretty far away from a jazz bass type of tone, which is actually something that troubles me. In a way, my 35", neck-through. 6-string Ibanez BTB with Norstrand Big Singles sounds closer to a Jazz than my Stingray 5 HH does. [/quote] I think the inner coils sound more towards a P bass. The outer coils start to sound nasally not unlike a Jazz. Perhaps I'm thinking more an active Jazz than a passive one.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1479666629' post='3178291'] Someone just posted a B&W film from the 60's of the Temptations doing My Girl in the Hitsville studios on my FB timeline Obviously not the original session, but some great shots of the funk brothers including James. [/quote] A bass player recently posted a Reverb video article on Carole Kaye on the Shadows website - I watched it and a previous one on Jamerson. They're both fascinating films. I'm a fan of these old pop and R and B bass lines and have listened to all of the Standing in the Shadows of Motown CDs and learned many of the songs so have a good feel how Jamerson played - and subtly different from Bob Babbitt on Signed Sealed Delivered. I was astonished to see I Was Made to Love Her on the Carole Kaye item. I think the only thing that is anything like Carole Kaye on the track is the high unison riff which is not unlike the rather clever bass part she played at the start of Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys. However the rest really is pure Jamerson and especially the breakdown section. It contains a lot of his signature note choices and tricks like dropping to open strings (a trait of double bass players). Perhaps Stevie Wonder was influenced by the Beach Boys? Who knows but it certainly doesn't sound like a pick played track and good as Carole Kaye is, most of it sounds like Jamerson to me.

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1479644988' post='3178027'] I put a John East preamp in mine. Volume across the strings is fine whatever you do with the tone controls. [/quote] I'm sure it's excellent, but is actually modelled on his 76 Stingray. Mine are all stock and don't have string/sound balance issues:- 93 SR4H Fretless 3 band 93 SR4H 3 band poplar 03 SR5H ceramic 3 band 03 SR4H 3 band 03 Sub 5 2 band poplar 07 SR4HH 3 band 10 SR4H Classic 2 band 14 Sabre (HH) Classic 2 band mahogany 16 SR4H 2 band 40th Anniversary alder

You guys with Stingrays with weak sounding G strings, could you post recordings? I have to say I have never heard one so would be interested - whenever I hear Stingrays on recordings they have balanced sound across the strings. There are a number of things, as stated above, which you can do to avoid issues:- 1) Set your bass up to factory settings 2) Use 100 through to 45 string gauge (I.e factory spec) 3) Avoid over-boosting the bass EQ 4) Ensure you have sufficient mid range in your sound. It is a fact of life that a bass guitar generally has an E string 2+ times thicker than the G string. Thus if you over boost the bass, either on the guitar (presuming it has such an ability) or your amp, it will make your thicker strings (which are more bassy sounding) sound louder. The Stingray, and especially the 2 band, has a powerful bass boost so it's easy to achieve this. I think it also can be affected by playing style (over-whacking the lower strings). Certain types of amps are light in mid range and might have an effect - I noticed going from Ashdown to Markbass not only could I hear myself better in the band, You Tube postings of performances of the same songs with the different rigs but the same Classic Stingray 2 band showed the bass sound to be more prominent with the Mark Bass. I would suggest some of these methods could be looked at before modifying your basses. Anyway I shall wait to hear the sound samples with interest - although I won't be holding my breath - I asked people on Talkbass who were getting quite wound up about the issue to post samples and they never did. The same effect can be achieved with a Stingray 5 (ceramic - note they aren't ceramic pre 92 or post 2008) at least as far as the player is concerned, by having a scooped sound - indeed it's as likely with any sort of bass - probably the most likely is a Fender Jazz with both pick ups full on - I recently posted an Ed Friedland test of various Ps and Js and the J with both pick ups on full actually sounded like the volume had been reduced compared with the other basses! Finally, I think we bass players do get hung up on the sound 4ft from the speaker when it's actually nothing like what's heard out in the room. I've been guilty of complaining about keyboard players or guitarists playing with too bassy a sound and getting too much into the bass sonic frequency only to be told that the bass actually sounds great, well mixed in the FOH - the way forward is, if you have PA support, put the instruments through the monitors - works a treat, everyone can hear each other and no one turns up!!

Some people prefer the sound with a rosewood board over a maple - they both have different advantages - rosewood can be warmer sounding and slightly less in your face, maple can be slightly more bright - but remember Bernard Edwards's bass has a maple board - and recorded sounded warm, fat and mellow - albeit probably with flat wound strings. Figuring in maple neck wood is basically interesting birds eye, flame (striping) or quilt in the neck wood. Current Classic Stingrays have this and quite often basses from the 90s.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1479384053' post='3176085'] After reading 4 pages, I'd like to hear some comparison recordings with a Jazz bass and Precision bass. [/quote] There's one 7 posts above yours - CV J v P v 50s P v US Custom Shop J v Japanese P and Japanese 51 p reissue. Couldn't be clearer - can't believe no one noticed!!! ...... Looks and sounds pretty clear to me!!

[quote name='ZilchWoolham' timestamp='1479344845' post='3175897'] This would all depend on your definition of Jazz and Stingray tone, of course, but I suspect a Stingray and a Jazz pickup are just too different in construction for those two tones to exist within the same pickup. Even superficially they aren't exactly similar; a Jazz pickup doesn't look a whole lot like a Stingray pickup sawed in half. Depending on the era of the pickups we could be dealing with different magnets, different wire, different everything between the two really. And of course the pole pieces will always be different. The pickup placement certainly makes a difference as well, although looking at images of a Stingray and the Lakland, the bridge pickup does seem to be very similarly placed. Anyway, minor variations do make a difference when added up, so I think a reasonable approximation is as close as you're going to get, and depending on your needs, that might just be good enough. [/quote] I think you're right - another significant difference is construction, which will affect tone and resonance. The Stingray has a huge bridge mass and deep rooted bolts connecting it to the body whereas a Fender has screws and a smaller flat plate - the neck joints are significantly different all contributing to substantially different transmission of sound and resonance through the instrument. I think this is also true of other makes like Lakland etc - all are very different from a Fender in detail. A Fender is also likely to have an alder body which will give a warmer sound compared to ash in other instruments (alder bodied Stingrays sound very mellow if my new 40th Anniversary is typical).

This is a very interesting set of recorded comparisons which show the differences well (between P and J and also how much perceived volume you lose with both pick ups on full on a jazz) http://youtu.be/x6Cd98DH__U

When you try it, something to consider, the area of the string you pluck and how hard you pluck it make a vast difference to the sound - arguably more so than you would expect - near the neck joint and with palm mute you get a fabulous thumpy sound - between pick up and bridge, and a bit of force, and left hand muting a great Jaco finger style sound - and anything in between. Full on Tim Commerford 1st Rage album sound can be had by bumping up the treble - Louis Johnson slap sound - Bernard Edwards fat finger style - all available if you can play it - far more versatile than one pick up has any business being!! The price is great given the hike in new prices - I certainly wouldn't sell one for that price. As McNach says you may like it - you may not. What they do have is bullet proof construction and when properly set up, a playability to match and possibly surpass anything else available. Good luck and hope it sounds and feels good. A 1998 may well have figuring in the neck also. Here's another link which further demonstrates versatility http://youtu.be/rJN72FvjST0

I suspect there are lots of people playing Warwick basses - just not that many who come on forums and talk about them a lot. In fact I've bumped into quite a few enthusiastic Warwick players. They are a great instrument using quality components and construction and they have their own signature tone. If you can get them for that price used then that's absolutely ludicrous when you consider some if the other stuff you could get for that price, some of which would be distinctly ubiquitous and decidedly average in comparison. Their upper range standard basses are easily in a par with Fender Custom Shop, as are Musicman, US Lakland and G and L - all of which quite wrongly get compared with the more run of the mill US basses. I would not be deterred from buying a new Warwick if that's what I wanted - I'm pretty sure I'd be satisfied by what I received. There is a certain view on this forum that 'getting a used bargain' is somehow better than buying a brand new instrument - as someone who has done both, I have to say ordering and buying a brand new instrument is a great experience and gives a lot of pleasure which, for me, is usually beyond buying a used bargain. I have only once bought a used Musicman which has given me anywhere near the pleasure of those I've bought new - for those that have experienced it, it has some parallels with buying and bonding with a new car. I have no worry about the depreciation on basses - and with Brexit and other political lunatics about, such is the economic situation that there ain't too much depreciation anyway!! For those who live for the used bargain, if that's what floats your boat then that's great. A new Warwick would be quite a pleasure! I would find someone with some in stock and make a trip to try out - then maybe order what you want.

Simple reply - a twin pick up Stingray. You get Jazz-like coil selection at the click of a switch. The HS version does the Jazz best and the Lakland HS sound. And of course, a full fat Stingray H sound. Go one further and the Musicman Reflex gives HSS capability with series/parallel and active passive. Although some people may say otherwise I found the Lakland doesn't do a Stingray tone like a Stingray - I spent about six months in 2003 deciding what 5 string to buy - one thing I wanted was a Stingray tone. I tried Lakland, Warwick, Fender, Yamaha and others and eventually bought a Stingray 5 H - it's combination of parallel humbucker (classic Stingray tone), series humbucker (more Fenderish) and single coil bridge coil gives enough to satisfy my liking for Jaco tones, classic Stingray and more aggressive series tone were good enough for me. I don't have a multi pick up Musicman 5 but I do have a 4HH and a Sabre. Either provide me with a good impression of a Marcus sound for certain songs I play. I'm sure other people have differing views but this is my two penworth!! All of the basses I tried had their own advantages - generally different. The Warwick Streamer Jazzman does a good Jazz and Humbucker sound - as does the Ibanez Musician. I agree the Lakland does a very nice version as well. I suspect the Dimension bass does as well though I've never tried one - do you get coil selection with those or do Fender still rely on two volumes and a tone?

Sad news indeed. The noticeable thing is nearly all of these guys whose fame started in the 60s and 70s are now in their 70s - except Bruce Forsyth, whose in his 80s. It is a sobering thought that time marches on - even Ric Astley and Mark King look (relatively) old to me.

[quote name='LukeFRC' timestamp='1479166659' post='3174536'] killers first album, within 20 seconds of the first song you can tell they are a jazz bass using band .... if you want to play Motown use a p, if you want to play 70s funk use a jazz ... just use what sounds right to your ears for the music you're playing. [/quote] Your last phrase is about right - to be honest as many played 70s funk on P basses as J basses and on Stingrays or Alembics in the late 70s - cases in point - I saw both the Brothers Johnson and Rose Royce live in around 1979 and both bass players used Alembic (series 1 I think) - yes Louis Johnson! Pops Popwell played a Jazz with The Crusaders - same era - and sounded fabulous in a different way - they all shared a common factor - stunningly brilliant playing. Nate Watts recorded I Wish on a J bass and Sir Duke on a P bass - however both were recorded through studio Alembic pre amps, so not really passive instruments at all. And he recorded Do I Do on a Stingray. As you said use what suits you and sounds best in your hands - we obsess too much over equipment - different people sound great in the studio on different basses, there is not a one make or instrument fits all. I think there's definitely a current fashion for Precisions to be used in pop music - however coincidentally there are lots of moans from bass players that modern music sometimes has inaudible bass - not sure if there's a coincidence there........ some people say any recording engineer worth their role can get a decent bass sound with any professional level instrument played competently - I would have thought anyone who has to get a decent sound from a drum kit should find recording a bass a relatively simple task - and a simple task to get it to sit in the mix in the way the producer or artists require - regardless of make, provided the player is competent.

[quote name='4 Strings' timestamp='1479122585' post='3174043'] How I love Stingrays. Did the development of the bass guitar stop when they put a 3EQ on one? [/quote] Nope - they made the Bongo with 4EQ - seismic bass EQ as well!!

[quote name='thegummy' timestamp='1478915643' post='3172743'] Out of interest, do you play J/P style basses made by other companies or do you play different designs completely? [/quote] Single or dual pick up Musicman