drTStingray

[quote name='oldbass' timestamp='1498857797' post='3327663'] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]Will Lee above....damn, he even looks like a bassist [/font][/color] [color=#282828][font=helvetica, arial, sans-serif]...brilliant. [/font][/color] [/quote] Fantastic bass player - in fact wonderful bass player but I thought he looked rather like Bernie ahem...... Eccleston

Jerry played/plays great - he is very authentic to a 70s R and B genre which, if you had seen bands like the Crusaders and a host of others live you would instantly recognise. It happens to be my favourite era of bass playing and players so love it. I do have an issue with the sounds - for those who are interested I heard it on my Bose in car system - not wonderful but capable of good reproduction and good bass sound - indeed the previous day radio 2 had played a studio Chic track in which the bass occupied a large portion of the low mid range - it was a fundamental part of the sound. With Chic live at Glastonbury, I particularly noticed My Feet Keep Dancing and the bass was anything but prominent in the low mid range - for me this took a big chunk of sound - rather similar to removing something like the Fender Rhodes or the strings, say from one of their tracks. Of removing Wilkos guitar from say a Dr Feelgood track and replacing it with a lush Les Paul. I'm sure this is a reasonably outspoken view - but I really don't care what guitar or equipment is used but without a fat, poppy bass sound occupying a large sound scape it ain't Chic for me. And that is not what I heard on Sunday. The band are great, however generally, as is Jerry Barnes. The 1996 live Chic work with BE has the same arrangements of many of those songs so they've been playing them even longer. The comparison with Nate Watts is interesting as he does get that fat sound live when required. Indeed I've heard Jerry Barnes do so before - so maybe it was Glasto/BBC to blame.

I heard some of it on radio 2. It lacked the breadth of the bass sound of Bernard Edwards which made the band, for me sound too thin and toppy. For those moaning about the slap, Bernard Edwards slapped quite often live especially in later years. That said I found the slap and pop too nasal and thin sounding. I'm a big fan of Jerry Barnes as a player - I don't know if it was the Glastonbury mix, the Radio 2 rendition or the sound he got on stage but for me it was Chic with a thinner version of a Marcus Miller sound which didn't do it for me - it was quite authentic for the very early Chic (Dance Dance Dance, Everybody Dance and a couple of other early tracks) in my view but far too thin for all but that - just a listen to any of the studio singles will show this. He should play a Wal (or Stingray 👍)

I play in three bands with sax players (one has three piece brass) - they all to an extent use written parts although two of them don't have music stands when we perform. Interestingly Hard to Handle is a great soul song with brass, much wrecked by some rock players. We play this (intended to be a soul version) and the sax player brought along a written brass part true to the original - which he found he couldn't use because the rest of the band played it too fast and inaccurately - we now play it correctly and it's so much better. No crunchy guitar parts - it's driven by the bass and drums with typical soul guitar (where the guitar is a supporting instrument rather than an extension of someone's bedroom guitar jangling/crunch which fills all the space like Status Quo!!). I played this in a jam session recently with our sax player and could see and hear him trying to play the parts - without much joy because the rest of the jammers had no clue what an important part it plays - back to a standard rock dirge I'm afraid. I don't really worry about brass players using charts - if its the difference between accuracy and approximations i prefer the charts.

[quote name='ped' timestamp='1497626934' post='3319636'] I suppose if I was[i] told[/i] stories about him I'd probably ignore them. However if I had [i]first hand experience[/i] of his attitude I'd be put right off. I am the latter. [/quote] Yeah I understand your position - I guess their lawyers are pursuing aggressively any potential sales outlet for unlicensed knock offs. Unfortunately, as you can see from some of the responses, some people just don't get the concept of a company protecting its products and legitimate customers - although Rickenbacker maybe unique in going after the secondhand market - you can only speculate but it seems possible their sales and finances were being badly affected. I am guessing this is all Fender's fault because people have got used to being able to buy 'knock off' Fenders in a range of prices and Fender has seemingly not been bothered about protecting its brand or customers' interests - until it was too late a few years back, when courts didn't back them. Lawyers representing other manufacturers have also gone aggressively after people (usually retailers) selling knock offs, particularly if they are being passed off as genuine instruments (even Fender have done or threatened this). It doesn't affect my attitude to buying - for instance I found some of the Musicman forum stuff 10 years or so ago pretty unpalatable (although it should be said that most people involved were behaving like complete twats) - however having been a big fan of their basses since the 70s, would a few posts on a forum between people who should know better bother me - well the answer is not at all. And in my book, Rickenbackers are cool basses, warts and all, in the same way as any other professional level instrument.

[quote name='Quatschmacher' timestamp='1497636379' post='3319731'] Unfortunately, because of my need for a SLO Special neck, I'm unlikely to find one in UK stock so buying sight unseen is my only option. [/quote] I guess so - however you could try a US Sterling as the neck dimensions are very similar - has one more fret and a sculpted heel/5 bolt neck plate compared with the SLO Special's standard Stingray pattern.* * doh!! I just re-read your original thread and you already have a Sterling!

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1497445938' post='3318208'] Agreed Same your strings, amps, cabs, pedals etc. [/quote] Agreed also. I find it quite surprising the number of musicians who moan about CEOs of smaller volume manufacturers - I think three companies have already been mentioned in this thread. I would use the analogy of my local chip shop where, if I took issue with the way the owner cooks his fish and chips I would expect the verbal equivalent of a black eye or worse - there are musicians around who think they know more about how to run a company and its products than the CEO - easy to have a view but you haven't got the full picture when you aren't responsible for the company and its financial viability!!

I have ordered a number of MM basses sight unseen (as indeed most instruments would be regardless of manufacturer if you want specific colours and options) - they have always matched my needs perfectly - indeed I still have them. I would have no worry about doing it again - I would be as confident of getting what I wanted as any other manufacturer, indeed probably more so than many others. It seems Andertons either do or will soon be stocking lots of you want to try them, anyway. I think we just have to accept that all high quality American made instruments are now significantly more expensive than they were a couple of years or even more recently than that.

I have a Bongo 5HH(p) and a Stingray 4HH and agree slapping (the popping) is not quite as easy as on the H models which are quite intuitive. That said if you work on the position you do this it is quite straightforward - just needs a bit more playing accuracy than using the H models - this is easier said than done changing from finger style to slap mid song. It's not unique to the Bongo - Marcus Miller and Will Lee use neck pick up covers - presumably to guide them to the right positions - and these guys are at the top of their game!! Another way with the Bongo is to lower the neck pick up - as you know the pick ups are very hot having neodymium magnets - when I first got my Bongo (I am the third owner) the neck pick up was flush with the pickguard - raising it did not alter the sound massively so you could try this. Another alternative is to look for a HS model, which will give more room between the neck and pick up. If you go your suggested route, then you could get a pick guard via Strings and Things or from MMs supplier in the US - Chandler - who make both the standard ones and some very cool variants. If you do go the modification route just remember the Bongo is an extensively 'engineered' bass so moving the pick up may affect the blended pick up sound, neck soloed sound and the EQ interaction with those somewhat - may be good or bad - who knows but I guess if it was better Musicman would have done it in the first place. I'd be curious to know the solution you end up with.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1497388510' post='3317825'] It's crazy to think the only alternative to the sub 5 is the classic five for well over two grand new, massive bargain! [/quote] I know what you mean but you haven't been able buy a new US Sub since 2006 or so.... Used SR5s seem to be available for around £800, and used Classics for £1000 upwards. Love my white US Sub5 by the way - compares nicely with my SR5 and Bongo and simpler, electronics wise to use.

Excellent bass - congratulations.

[quote name='markdavid' timestamp='1497281836' post='3317001'] Hi Had a rehearsal with a newly joined band at the weekend, the rehearsal studio is one that they use as its very cheap, hadn't been there before and walked in there expecting to plug into maybe a 200w bass amp, or at least 150w........ There was a Fender Rumble 60 there!!!! It actually held up admirably considering the low wattage but I spent a lot of time stood right next to the amp and a fair bit of time fiddling with the eq in an attempt to hear my bass properly, also when I played high up the neck it had some degree of overdrive from being cranked to the max. The guitar amp was a Marshall 100watt !!! Anyone had any similar experiences to this? [/quote] Yeah - playing in jam sessions run by guitarists where two guitar amps are provided both of which are two to three times the wattage of the bass amp provided (sometimes a 30 watt Warwick combo). Net result is needing to play on full volume and not to be able to hear yourself, with the bass distorting. Those particular amps the OP mentions, from my experience, seem to stifle all the top end in a Stingray also. I recall articles being published which indicated you need exactly the opposite - two or three times the output of the guitar amps. As others have said, it's all about headroom. I seem to recall Alex (Barefaced) writing something about this subject in BGM when he had a monthly slot - or was I dreaming this!!

[quote name='Cato' timestamp='1497395351' post='3317886'] You don't want flats for funk...... Steel roundwounds are the way to go. [/quote] +1 - no one playing bass from the 70s on would have been seen dead playing with flat wounds and certainly not funk. If you do really want flatwounds then try and avoid those with high tension - Ernie Ball Group 3, Tomastik, Ernie Ball Cobalt flat wounds are all good in this respect in my experience - providing tension similar to roundwounds - no doubt there are others - whilst some makes/types of flat wounds seem to give me a sort of arm wrestling experience owing to the tension they create.

I always though Rickenbackers were old clank machines until I heard someone playing Dune Tune by Level 42 on one - then realised a lot of my favourite soul funk bassists from the early 70s played them (Larry Graham for one). They're quite versatile. http://youtu.be/McBSPmqi5fo As for the CEO - well he simply takes issue with people making unlicensed copies of his instruments - and can you blame him - he's more interested in protecting his customers and his business rather than the knock off merchants and theirs. I don't see that being odd in any way - maybe the zeal with which individuals have been chased is a little surprising. Very strange some manufacturers never bothered to protect their designs and probably now regret those decisions.

I still like them but the recent performance on Later with Jools surprised me sound wise. He appears to have changed to some type of Fender bass and the sound, for me was quite different - Fender basses have a thinner sound than Gibson/Guild style basses so whilst the sound was ok I wasn't as wowed as when I heard them previously. Anyone know why he has changed bass?? I know this will be anathema to the multitudes of Fender fans but if any of you have ever heard people play All Right Now on a Precision or Jazz you will know exactly what I mean.

[quote name='machinehead' timestamp='1497104977' post='3315893'] Apart from the obvious differences (finish and choice of woods for example) how close do the Stingray experts (which I am not!) feel that the 2003 to 2005 US SUB model is to the Stingray Classic? Frank. [/quote] I have both. Functionally fairly similar. That's about where the ways part - it's like comparing a Mexican Precision and a high level Custom Shop one. The US Sub is a great bass, very good value, and gets the basic 2 band MM sound. Also bullet proof construction. Lots of things are different - biggest change is non hand finished neck and the edges aren't rolled - no hardware is stamped - body wood is poplar, not ash, painted neck, textured finish. As I said, cool bass in its own right but the Classic Rays are things of beauty with excellent playability and function.

[quote name='stingrayPete1977' timestamp='1497033897' post='3315506'] Mine is Tobacco Burst which is another early colour changed to retroburst was it DrT? Being a May 2010 it's very early for a UK five string. [URL=http://s997.photobucket.com/user/stingraypete/media/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/20140730_173849_zpsnblgtvmm.jpg.html][IMG]http://i997.photobucket.com/albums/af100/stingraypete/Mobile%20Uploads/2014-07/20140730_173849_zpsnblgtvmm.jpg[/IMG][/URL] [/quote] Looks great - and yes, when the Classic range was introduced some of the colours were planned to be rotated - which tended to be at NAMM - so tobacco burst became retro burst and the three pastel colours, red, green and blue, were dropped after the first year of production. These colours had been requested on the MM forum periodically. There are Guitar Centre specials as well.

[quote name='Atomic dustbin' timestamp='1497030712' post='3315469'] Thanks dr T I do prefer the natural finishes. I didn't know they only did them for about a year in Coral. The one I saw was 2011 I think. It looks a little bit pink to me. Maybe it was just the photos I saw. [/quote] They are basically very similar to fiesta red - indeed the initial ones made were called that. They're quite pink in some lights but range from deeper red to almost orange dependent on light conditions - they can appear quite pale pink under fluorescent tube lighting. Looks great in combination with the highly figured maple neck. The natural colour wasn't introduced on the classic Stingray until three or maybe five years back.

[quote name='Atomic dustbin' timestamp='1497024150' post='3315413'] Thanks for all the replies. I think I will try and pick up a used one first. I saw one for £1200 but not sure if the Coral Red colour is for me. I'm not in a rush to buy so I can wait for the right one to come up for sale. It sounds like there is much love for the classic! Thanks [/quote] Much as I love the late 80s/90s Stingrays, the Classics have one or two extra features - the one which most appeals to me is strings through bridge - to my mind this adds quite a bit of sustain. However the neck radius is different and they have skinny vintage frets. These basses are absolutely top notch. I have a coral red one - very nice indeed, in fact quite gorgeous, but some people prefer the more classic (for MM) colours (natural/sunburst). The coral red colour was only made for about 12 months so there aren't that many around.

[quote name='Cuzzie' timestamp='1496355962' post='3310862'] Yep Musicman copying Sandberg except they put their guitars together real cheap and they feel awful, at least the new crop do [/quote] I also have a lot of Musicman basses including one I bought new late last year. The quality on them all is consistently top notch. Their plan, they say, was to produce some old school classic styled passive basses to compliment their new guitar models - their single coil exposed pole pick ups have been around for many years, so they're not really copying Sandberg - more they and Sandberg are making basses which are loosely (or not so dependent on which maker) based on Fender. In the US, people have referred to the new MM passive basses as on a par with boutique stuff like Sadowski. I'm sure Sandberg are excellent as well but I too would be extremely surprised if MM took substandard instruments to a show. The London BGS is not the place to spend time with bass equipment unless you're not bothered about the crowds of people and din of slapping going on - and din it really is - unless you stick around in the exhibition whilst a big draw is on stage - very pleasant then 👍

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1496445174' post='3311577'] It's not a sticker, it's a completely new pickguard made by Tim at Original Scratchplates featuring the logo of a Ska band I dep for. [/quote] V nice!!

[quote name='Meddle' timestamp='1496253838' post='3309999'] I sort of disagree about Trombone Shorty being the highlight. Apart from the bassist riding along on the B string it sounded like something from the '60s or '70s. Actually the bassist was pretty lousy and messy, if full of energy. [/quote] Blimey I've just watched this. Don't recognise your description at all. The bass player was pretty tight from what I could see/hear - indeed some nice focussed playing on a Steinberger. I may be biased as I have a liking for the R and B side of things but i found it quite refreshing compared with the monotonous inaudible cobblers played on the same bass type you often find in this show.

[quote name='mcnach' timestamp='1496430040' post='3311440'] Well... he's right! I just went to check. The signal is a lot weaker, but it does work, and at a pinch, I think I could probably use it like that at a gig as I usually have lots of headroom left. The volume control still works, but the bass/treble doesn't (there's a slight change in tone when you turn them up/down, but nothing there really). Who would have thought it? [/quote] Back in the day, a friend played a Stingray back in the mid/late 70s and told me he used the bass fir recording with the tone controls turned off. I must admit I've never done that. I did have a battery fail on a gig around 1980 - I turned the amp up but the sound guy complained after that the signal was quite variable (probably because I was still trying to use the tone controls) - the bass was DI d through a large PA. In response to Pete's query, the bridge design on most Musicman basses has the deep rooted bolts at the sides as well as screw fixings at the back - I think the ones with strings through bridges have a bit more sustain - however the new passive basses (Cutlass and Caprice) don't have those bolts - the rest of the bridge is similar but narrower - those basses seem to have less twang than a Stingray, rather like a passive Fender. Hollow saddles probably make a difference also (standard on Stingray Classics).

[quote name='hiram.k.hackenbacker' timestamp='1496412149' post='3311246'] Yes, I think a few hasty purchases were made. My one isn't going anywhere. [center][/center] [/quote] I'm not surprised - I tend to keep most of what I buy as well - I nearly went for one of those but the initial batch sold out before I got to it! Nice sticker btw.

The original thread on these ran to a few hundred posts and people falling over each other to get one - it was immediately pre Brexit so they were comparatively good value, but available at that price for a very short time. The stack knob Jazz was changed by Fender originally for a good reason - presumably some people with the Flea Jazz have stumbled across it also (I seem to remember discussion about this when these basses came out) - as well as the flip flippity flip nature of some people on the forum.