drTStingray

[quote name='White Cloud' timestamp='1480456658' post='3184628'] 1976 - "I'll be good to you" by the brothers Johnson (the legendary Louis on bass). Reached no 3 in the US singles chart. [/quote] He didn't use a Stingray until the Blam album I think. For 1976, you need to think of the first people to have them - Carl Radle with Eric Clapton is an example - bearing in mind the earliest production bases didn't get done till around September 76.

Any Jamiroquy with Nick Fyffe - talking Canned Heat etc. Runaway with Paul Turner is part on a Stingray (choruses IIRC). Early Take That is on Stingray; some Westlife. Some Culture Club (later singles). The Feel No Fret AWB album - Lets Go Round Again single probably. David Bowie singles from the late 70s on. Paul Young singles (Pino); Elton John (Nikita) Pino - most recent singles also. The theme to Later with Jools Holland is on an SR5 I think from the era when Dave Swift was an endorser (same era as Paul Turner with Annie Lennox).

Unfortunately that's what everyone says about their favourite colours - EBMM has stated that in reality they sell mostly black, white, natural and sunburst basses - outnumbering other finishes by a vast amount. Other colours crop up on the limited edition/PDN models which can usually be ordered in any type or spec of bass available from EBMM. They usually also have a couple of other colours for standard order - chilli red is one this year which is a pretty cool colour - Bongos have sky blue and tangerine pearl - suitably off the wall and whacky - the Cutlass and Caprice seem to have two or three special colours. Other than that - you're looking used. Remember 80s-90s standard sunburst was what more recently was called honey burst - used honeyburst basses crop up relatively frequently - so you may find an SLO Stingray from the 00/10s era used if you wait long enough!! There was a used all rosewood neck SLO Stingray on the EBMM forum for sale a few days back but since disappeared. Spare a thought for at least two of us here who think peach is the coolest MM colour of all - available custom order for a couple of years around 87-90 and absolutely rare as hen's teeth - Tony Levin has an SR5 in that colour. I certainly don't have an MM in that colour.........got a coral red which is pretty cool and not too far away from peach!!

To answer your question - yes you can learn it - I'm proof of it. For me it's taken a very long time to develop the technique (I first played it in the mid 70s - Rose Royce songs but have improved over the last few years) - I can now do it well enough to play entire songs, fills or small solos with it. I use it quite sparingly however (as did my 70s bass heroes most of the time). My experience is that audiences like it (they also like Fretless). I saw Level 42 at Hammersmith Appollo a few weeks back and it was packed - Mark King's bass solo as an encore attracted a frenzied response from the audience. In fact it seems the only people who really don't like it are some musicians and particularly some bass players - no doubt some music producers also. Each to their own I guess, but I suspect it challenges some people's perception of what a bass should do/be. In moderation I think it's great (always has been). IMHO it can be quite an exciting element when used well and musically.

[quote name='Chiliwailer' timestamp='1480364845' post='3183776'] Bass Direct have one in, and they even made it look chocolatey on the top horn! Very cool bass IMO. Warren, has yours landed yet? [/quote] The colour is even cooler in the flesh - dark chocolate round the edges with milk chocolate on the top and bottom horns (to represent faded paint on the real one its modelled on). Changes colour with bright light also. I could only describe the sound as fabulous - mine has done half a dozen gigs now and there are one or two videos with it on - the sound is very old school Stingray - very bassy but defined - nice slap sound but not in your face. I'm using it all the time currently. The pick up is quite different - elongated pole pieces and non curved edges - EQ is different and epoxied - knobs are as pre EB - lots of period detail including the logo - no logo on bridge. Altogether very nice indeed. I'd be surprised if Warren doesn't have his if Bass Direct are claiming to have one in stock ......

My new Old Smoothue Stingray has one but it's not sticky at all - in fact the neck is as slick as the oil and wax finish ones I have. I have a 93 Fretless and fretted Ray and a 2010 Classic Ray all with lacquered shiny necks - none are sticky - all are slick and fast. Musicman clearly know how to make a very playable and slick neck - I suspect there in lies the rub - some manufacturers go the extra mile and others are not so bothered.

[quote name='Grassie' timestamp='1480067407' post='3181374'] Bernard is on there, er...Leo Lyons isn't... An oversight, sorry! Like i said, it's kind of a prototype (a work in progress maybe) so I can add players later. [/quote] No worry - he is a contemporary of JPJ, John McVie, Andy Fraser and the like - pretty awesome and was always in the top 5 bass players in the MM say 69-71. Another good one is Larry Taylor - these guys taught us 60 somethings a lot about bass playing so we're quite formative. I can't read it properly btw so forgive me if I've stated people already there!! Regarding font, I believe the original font is s standard typeface like sans serif. TfL may try to copyright it but it would be like someone trying to copyright times new roman or anything else generic - they'll try anything - I heard there were thoughts of copyrighting new Routemaster bus seats - which are largely generic 1950s/60s bus seat design - it's a bit like trying to copyright wheel, or car etc. That said the bulls eye and diagram are definitely theirs!

[quote name='dudi8' timestamp='1480027828' post='3181211'] I ordered Seymour Duncan weather report pickups, and I will make an epoxy coat for the fingerboard [/quote] You only need the epoxy if you're going to use the roughest of all rough stainless steel roundwounds on it!! But as a Jaco tribute it's important I suspect - and would help you not to wear holes in your fretboard before too long if you're going to use the strings Jaco was said to have used.

Leo Lyons; Bernard Edwards? Excellent idea - look forward to seeing the bigger one!!

[quote name='mep' timestamp='1480028183' post='3181215'] I had this problem some years ago on my 2 band eq Ray and this totally solved it. There was a thread on here about it. It's easily done. [/quote] I don't doubt you and others are 100% sure about this. However I have flat pick up pole Stingrays with which too scooped an EQ can produce the same issue exactly - btw on a 2 band full on tone controls = SCOOPED SOUND - on a 3 band less so because of the mid range EQ (presuming you max it). Couple that with a naturally scooped rig and you can easily create the problem with any bass with dynamic sound (eg a Jazz). The only one you'll probably be ok with is a P bass because people like to scoop the sound of those and they don't have vast dynamic range anyway. So I don't buy the idea that moving the pole pieces helps particularly - the whole point is they follow the fretboard radius so keeping all strings relatively similar distance from the strings - always provided people haven't done a poor set up job with their saddles or pick up height. I've seen some horror stories there as well!!! I'd like to hear comparative sound samples? Anybody done one pre and post moving pole pieces?

Ha ha sounds great and well done. I picked my new one up about three weeks ago and still play it two or three times a day such is the allure! I have a Stingray 5 with the same electronics package and it truly is a great bass for all genres - the slap sound is just fabulous so you're in for a real treat there! I guess the six months shows just how busy they are.

[quote name='40hz' timestamp='1479988369' post='3180793'] For me the problem isn't recording the bass, indeed it records very well. It's in a live situation the problem surfaces. Played a Halloween gig recently and the G was just non-existant. The same thing rears it head with multiple amps as well. I set my eq flat (bar a smidge of bass boost) with my TC Bh550. As I said though, I can bring it back a bit by pulling back on the bass on the 2 band preamp and using the Spectracomp toneprint. [/quote] I find a TC is too scooped - myself and some mates attend a jam with one of these as the supplied bass kit - it also chokes the top end (on Jazz, Ray, Sabre even on a Warwick Streamer Jazzman). I think it is a facet of some amps. It is the same with guitar amps - comparing Vox AC 15 with Fender Deluxe Reverb - the Vox has lower power (15 v 22w) but the Fender is scooped so sounds quieter! Turning to walking bass lines, I find you have to be very careful where you play these on any bass dependent on how busy the keyboard and guitar players are in that sonic area. Note Dave Swift plays in upper octaves sometimes to avoid Jools Holland's left hand piano. I used my Fretless Ray for many years in a Rockabilly band playing walking lines most of the time - they were fine on all strings until about the 12 th fret or so when they really did appear to drop out on the G and D (not on video recordings though - you could clearly hear my duff intonation high up on the fretboard at times!!). Fender twin v Vox article for those interested. https://reverb.com/news/vox-ac15-vs-fender-deluxe-reverb?utm_campaign=5a1550ab27-rn161113_content_uk&utm_medium=email&utm_term=0_5889ed6702-5a1550ab27-58834077

[quote name='blue' timestamp='1479952099' post='3180593'] All these responses are subjective. It depends on how, when and where your using it.And whether you like it. Things like what year it was made make little to no difference. I assume when you guys are commenting on the sound of a bass your talking straight bass to amp , no eq. Blue [/quote] The bridge with mutes ceased around 94 with a transition without mutes but the larger bridge in 95. The shorter bridge started 96. The highly figured necks (only an aesthetic issue but the figured ones are very cool) are much more prolific from 1987 ish to the mid 90s though I've seen some from the later 90s. Apart from the Classic series of Stingrays and some limited editions the highly figured necks are very rare on standard Musicman basses since around 2000. Functionally a late 90s bass will be similar to any standard 4H Stingray produced since then with the exception of the compensated nut (introduced around 2005 I think). The 2 and 3 band EQs have been available throughout. Most people bought 3 bands in the 90s and probably 00s. Some cooler (in some people's view) colours like peach and blueburst had gone by then but periodically replaced with a host of others including sparkles and various trans colours (including one nicknamed puke yellow - which didn't last long - real name trans green). colours white, black, natural and vintage sunburst have always been available and still are - other classic colours like teal and trans red disappeared a few years ago. Everyone knows body wood makes no difference to sound - yeah right!!!! Trans red Stingrays up to mid 2000s? were always alder bodied - the solid colours in the 90s poplar and blueburst either poplar or alder. The rest are ash. Some of us nurds think the non ash versions sound slightly mellower - as do basses with rosewood fretboards. Blue is right much of this is subjective - a lot is aesthetics. They're pretty well consistent throughout in terms of sound, playability and functionality.

You're back to the point I was making, Pete. I've never heard a recording of this effect and despite asking people who've posted on forums to post sound samples they never seem to do so. I don't doubt that some people perceive this to be an issue, and there again there are other people who are unable for some reason to dial treble and clankiness out. But for one person who has these issues I can find ten who don't. All of the methods for dealing with this have been mentioned in this thread and most of it is down to set up, EQ choice and playing style - or dare I say it, possibly amps/speakers. Now here's an interesting point - the band I play in played at a gig earlier this week with provided back line, PA and drum kit - I used my Old Smoothie (76 Stingray revisited) - the amp used for bass was a reasonable sized combo made by a manufacturer with a name beginning with F. This combo had so scooped a sound that even with the mid range turned right up on it, the pop and slap sound was thin and lifeless - as were high double stops and the like. I have had similar problems with a smaller version of the same combo - nice fundamental but virtually nothing else. It is not the bass!! That sounds great through my set up. For those of the 'let's get the pole pieces flat to the pick up' persuasion, the Old Smoothie has exactly this - in fact slightly lower than the surrounding pick up - they're also elongated. So is this problem down to people using amps that are fundamentally scooped? No doubt the ones I used would be fine with a Precision and are probably designed to work with one, but talk about choking the life out of an instrument!!

That's very nice!! They have some very nice basses in there currently - a Custom Shop P bass in trans blond/white and also a Musicman PJ I think caught my eye - though I was picking up my new bass so didn't try them!!

Me too - the track Sorceress is fabulous - that Alembic bass sound is wonderful - it's also pretty rocky although the bass is pretty much funk. My daughter bought me tickets to see Jeff Lorber a few years back at Pizza Express - and how fabulous!! This starts from quiet beginnings but is great - how they play the unison stuff towards the end I don't know!! Nice Fender Jazz. http://youtu.be/TcmZJgWTKkg

Some accurate Stingray 4HH measurements, which can be added if you wish - they are imperial - remember these are US built/designed basses and all measurements tend to be imperial. Front edge of bridge to centre of fret 12 = 17" Centre of saddles to centre of fret 12 = 17 and 3/8" (G) to 17 1/2" (E) Centre of G saddle to centre of bridge pole, bridge pick up = 2" Centre of G saddle to centre of neck pole, bridge pick up = 2 and 7/8" Centre of neck pole, bridge pick up to centre of bridge pole, neck pick up = 2 and 5/8" Centre of bridge pole, neck pick up to centre of neck pole, neck pick up = 7/8" Just to add to the mix, my Classic Sabre does an extremely good impression of a good P bass with the inside single coil of the neck pick up selected (and probably front pick up of a Jazz) - I'm pretty sure it's been designed to sound like this. It's neck pick up does have 16 coils (set in two rows of eight) - the humbuckers are slightly different from a Stingray - with covered pole pieces, a silent circuit, and appear slightly smaller - still does a great Stingray sound with bridge H. To add to the mix, it uniquely has a mahogany body in combination with a roasted maple neck.

A question of personal taste I guess. I personally prefer the stuff more directly influenced by R and B and find rock rythmns a bit tepid at times. I had the likes of Billy Cobham, Steve Gadd, Buddy Rich as some of my favourite drummers along with John Bonham, Phil Collins etc from the rock angle. I really think it is just a matter of personal taste.

I had a very interesting experience in the late 70s at a Herbie Hancock concert - he played two sets separated by an interval - he announced the first as jazz and the second as jazz funk. I recall being one of about 100 people present in the 1500 seater theatre in the first set - and it was full in the second - apparently the bar was completely packed during the first half!! I concluded jazz lacked one major thing which jazz funk had - an audience!! I also recall the second set was far more dynamic with just as impressive solos and the like, but with some pretty intricate groove playing. I think even Cantaloupe Island was in the second set - though I can't clearly remember that. How do you guys who think jazz funk wrecks jazz rate The Crusaders - I saw them probably three times in the 70s - they were extremely R and B and jazz all at once. I always thought jazz rock was a bit of a white man's genre - I seem to recall this from Jeff Beck, Jack Bruce and Hatfield and the North concerts in the 70s - both the audiences and the players. I would have said Brand X was more jazz rock than jazz funk though clearly R and B influenced also - similarly Return to Forever and Weather Report though the latter draw on all sorts of worldwide influences. Or are we talking 60s crossover like Soft Machine and Blood Sweat and Tears?

[quote name='biro' timestamp='1479667770' post='3178307'] Actually, I don't think this is quite true. I have a Stingray 5HH—yes, I understand you said that the HS does the Jazz thing best—and It sounds miles away from a Jazz to be honest. Technically speaking, the HH should be capable of pulling out the same tone of the HS when using the inner coils. To my ears that does not, in any manner whatsoever, resemble a Jazz-type tone. The same applies to the use of the outer coils. Granted, I am not speaking about the possibility of using the individual coils soloed, but still, I think it's pretty far away from a jazz bass type of tone, which is actually something that troubles me. In a way, my 35", neck-through. 6-string Ibanez BTB with Norstrand Big Singles sounds closer to a Jazz than my Stingray 5 HH does. [/quote] I think the inner coils sound more towards a P bass. The outer coils start to sound nasally not unlike a Jazz. Perhaps I'm thinking more an active Jazz than a passive one.

[quote name='ivansc' timestamp='1479666629' post='3178291'] Someone just posted a B&W film from the 60's of the Temptations doing My Girl in the Hitsville studios on my FB timeline Obviously not the original session, but some great shots of the funk brothers including James. [/quote] A bass player recently posted a Reverb video article on Carole Kaye on the Shadows website - I watched it and a previous one on Jamerson. They're both fascinating films. I'm a fan of these old pop and R and B bass lines and have listened to all of the Standing in the Shadows of Motown CDs and learned many of the songs so have a good feel how Jamerson played - and subtly different from Bob Babbitt on Signed Sealed Delivered. I was astonished to see I Was Made to Love Her on the Carole Kaye item. I think the only thing that is anything like Carole Kaye on the track is the high unison riff which is not unlike the rather clever bass part she played at the start of Good Vibrations by the Beach Boys. However the rest really is pure Jamerson and especially the breakdown section. It contains a lot of his signature note choices and tricks like dropping to open strings (a trait of double bass players). Perhaps Stevie Wonder was influenced by the Beach Boys? Who knows but it certainly doesn't sound like a pick played track and good as Carole Kaye is, most of it sounds like Jamerson to me.

[quote name='Japhet' timestamp='1479644988' post='3178027'] I put a John East preamp in mine. Volume across the strings is fine whatever you do with the tone controls. [/quote] I'm sure it's excellent, but is actually modelled on his 76 Stingray. Mine are all stock and don't have string/sound balance issues:- 93 SR4H Fretless 3 band 93 SR4H 3 band poplar 03 SR5H ceramic 3 band 03 SR4H 3 band 03 Sub 5 2 band poplar 07 SR4HH 3 band 10 SR4H Classic 2 band 14 Sabre (HH) Classic 2 band mahogany 16 SR4H 2 band 40th Anniversary alder

You guys with Stingrays with weak sounding G strings, could you post recordings? I have to say I have never heard one so would be interested - whenever I hear Stingrays on recordings they have balanced sound across the strings. There are a number of things, as stated above, which you can do to avoid issues:- 1) Set your bass up to factory settings 2) Use 100 through to 45 string gauge (I.e factory spec) 3) Avoid over-boosting the bass EQ 4) Ensure you have sufficient mid range in your sound. It is a fact of life that a bass guitar generally has an E string 2+ times thicker than the G string. Thus if you over boost the bass, either on the guitar (presuming it has such an ability) or your amp, it will make your thicker strings (which are more bassy sounding) sound louder. The Stingray, and especially the 2 band, has a powerful bass boost so it's easy to achieve this. I think it also can be affected by playing style (over-whacking the lower strings). Certain types of amps are light in mid range and might have an effect - I noticed going from Ashdown to Markbass not only could I hear myself better in the band, You Tube postings of performances of the same songs with the different rigs but the same Classic Stingray 2 band showed the bass sound to be more prominent with the Mark Bass. I would suggest some of these methods could be looked at before modifying your basses. Anyway I shall wait to hear the sound samples with interest - although I won't be holding my breath - I asked people on Talkbass who were getting quite wound up about the issue to post samples and they never did. The same effect can be achieved with a Stingray 5 (ceramic - note they aren't ceramic pre 92 or post 2008) at least as far as the player is concerned, by having a scooped sound - indeed it's as likely with any sort of bass - probably the most likely is a Fender Jazz with both pick ups full on - I recently posted an Ed Friedland test of various Ps and Js and the J with both pick ups on full actually sounded like the volume had been reduced compared with the other basses! Finally, I think we bass players do get hung up on the sound 4ft from the speaker when it's actually nothing like what's heard out in the room. I've been guilty of complaining about keyboard players or guitarists playing with too bassy a sound and getting too much into the bass sonic frequency only to be told that the bass actually sounds great, well mixed in the FOH - the way forward is, if you have PA support, put the instruments through the monitors - works a treat, everyone can hear each other and no one turns up!!

Some people prefer the sound with a rosewood board over a maple - they both have different advantages - rosewood can be warmer sounding and slightly less in your face, maple can be slightly more bright - but remember Bernard Edwards's bass has a maple board - and recorded sounded warm, fat and mellow - albeit probably with flat wound strings. Figuring in maple neck wood is basically interesting birds eye, flame (striping) or quilt in the neck wood. Current Classic Stingrays have this and quite often basses from the 90s.

[quote name='paul_c2' timestamp='1479384053' post='3176085'] After reading 4 pages, I'd like to hear some comparison recordings with a Jazz bass and Precision bass. [/quote] There's one 7 posts above yours - CV J v P v 50s P v US Custom Shop J v Japanese P and Japanese 51 p reissue. Couldn't be clearer - can't believe no one noticed!!! ...... Looks and sounds pretty clear to me!!